Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Wow, none of that is reflected in scripture. There are not two different righteousness and in fact, sin and pride are the OPPOSITE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS. The man full of sin and pride is NOT RIGHTEOUS in the eyes of man or God.There are two kinds of righteousness. There is the righteousness of man and the righteousness of God.
The righteousness of man is tainted with sin and pride because of Adam. All that are born into the world are born after Adam. They have Adam's blood coursing through their veins and according to Paul are sinners, Romans 3:10.
No one has the righteousness of God except Jesus Christ; Jesus is the epitome of God's law and is 100% sinless.
The reason that Christians cannot sin is because there is no law. Sin is the transgression of God's law. "Where there is no law, there is no sin" Romans 4:15. The law has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. Jesus nailed it to his cross, Colossians 2:14. If you are a Christian God sees you "In Christ" and only in Christ, Colossians 3:3. If he saw you outside of Christ, he would have to judge you.It is always interesting the false positions always work themselves into impossible corners. The "christians never sin" theology has the difficulty that christians, including those who espouse this, actually do sin. So what do they do? They refine what "sin" actually is, they insist scriptures claim that they personally are sinless and therefore it must be so or other impossible positions.
The fact is, theology that matches how God sees a matter has no corners to be worked into. This is because theology that describes matters as God sees them reflects both the scripture and reality. It is a very satisfying set of truths, that is, when your thinking matches the scripture as far as you have gotten and it matches real life as you see it. You do not need to redefine words. You do not need to beat dead horses that have long been agreed upon as being dead. It is really wonderful, much better than stubbornly insisting on a position because the flesh likes it and make no mistake, telling the man in the mirror he is sinless as well as telling that man that all he has received from God (supposedly) will cost him nothing ever but was completely free of charge either in selfish choices nor otherwise very much appeals to the flesh.
Yes I know. You can behave as you wish being as awful as you wish to anyone you wish because you think there is no law anymore for you. No moral law. No law of loving others. Nothing but "do as thou wilt."The reason that Christians cannot sin is because there is no law. Sin is the transgression of God's law. "Where there is no law, there is no sin" Romans 4:15. The law has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. Jesus nailed it to his cross, Colossians 2:14. If you are a Christian God sees you "In Christ" and only in Christ, Colossians 3:3. If he saw you outside of Christ, he would have to judge you.
You are going against what Paul teaches. Christians are only righteous only "In Christ". Christ is our righteousness. Paul referred to himself as sinner, Romans 7:17-18.Wow, none of that is reflected in scripture. There are not two different righteousness and in fact, sin and pride are the OPPOSITE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS. The man full of sin and pride is NOT RIGHTEOUS in the eyes of man or God.
When God called a man righteous in the Bible, he was righteous in GOD'S eyes. God the one doing the calling so it is God's righteousness. IF you read what the man did, man thinks that guy was righteous too. They standards are the same.
All that have faith in Christ and his Gospel are indwelt with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is their keeper, their teacher and their guide. They do not need laws, rules or instructions. The only ones that need laws, rules and instructions are the lost Pharisees, 1 Timothy 1:9-10.Yes I know. You can behave as you wish being as awful as you wish to anyone you wish because you think there is no law anymore for you. No moral law. No law of loving others. Nothing but "do as thou wilt."
Now, God sees you as you. None of those scriptures say God is now totally blind. He does not see you "in Christ" by some magic. He does not see only Christ, as comforting as that untruth is, but you will stand before Him one day and answer for the deeds done in the body, good and BAD (against the law.) Do you need that scripture?
Unfortunately for you I quote scripture, "So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. 18For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out."You are going against what Paul teaches. Christians are only righteous only "In Christ". Christ is our righteousness. Paul referred to himself as sinner, Romans 7:17-18.
Again, too bad for you I quote the verses: 2and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority.2All that have faith in Christ and his Gospel are in Christ. God sees them "In Christ". Because of the saving work of Christ, they are complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.
Will you be surprised to know that I understand it quite well? I see the fallacy in the theology understanding it in detail. I think you do not see the flaws in your theology and so do not really understand it well enough to see the problems. Or is your position that those who do not agree with you, 1) do not understand and 2) do not have the Holy Spirit? Only those who agree with you have the Holy Spirit? Is that your position?This is very spiritual. If you don't have the Holy Spirit, you may not understand it.
Do you believe you need to obey the law to love God with all your heart and soul and mind and strength and love your neighbor as yourself? That is, a law. It was given as a law and is still a law. Do you think this law is binding upon you or are you freed from that law along with all others?All that have faith in Christ and his Gospel are indwelt with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is their keeper, their teacher and their guide. They do not need laws, rules or instructions. The only ones that need laws, rules and instructions are the lost Pharisees, 1 Timothy 1:9-10.
My KJV Bible says, "And you are complete in him" Colossians 2:10. Which is compatible with the Gospel and justification by faith. Jesus justifies the ungodly Romans 4:5 and reconciles them unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19.Unfortunately for you I quote scripture, "So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. 18For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out."
Where does that verse say that God sees only Christ in us no matter what we do? If Paul believed that, they nothing good that dwells in him wouldn't bother him as supposedly God doesn't see it anyway, according to you. That it DOES BOTHER Paul tells us that Paul knows that GOD SEES THE NOTHING GOOD in him and sees it clearly. that verse, by the way, does not say our only righteousness is in Christ. You need to quote the right verses.
Again, too bad for you I quote the verses: 2and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority.2
No where in that verse does it say God sees us "in Christ" no matter what the truth is. It doesn't even hint and God sees us "in Christ." It does not say we are "complete in Christ" even. It says we have been filled in Him who is the head. We are in him. Does not say that renders God blind. And actually not every verse can be taken to apply to us as we like. Let's look at what precedes that verse, 2
Therefore, as you received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him, 7rooted and built up in him and established in the faith, just as you were taught, abounding in thanksgiving.
8See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit,2
ah, we see that we have our part to play. We are not freed from doing wrong. We need to walk in Him, build up in Him and established in Him taking care that no one deceives us. Opps, it is possible for Christians to be deceived. Do you think God sees that too or is He blind to us being deceived as well? Just curious.
Will you be surprised to know that I understand it quite well? I see the fallacy in the theology understanding it in detail. I think you do not see the flaws in your theology and so do not really understand it well enough to see the problems. Or is your position that those who do not agree with you, 1) do not understand and 2) do not have the Holy Spirit? Only those who agree with you have the Holy Spirit? Is that your position?
Christians are not under any kind of laws, because "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believes" Romans 10:4. Jesus in our name and on our behalf has fulfilled all of the demands of God's law.Do you believe you need to obey the law to love God with all your heart and soul and mind and strength and love your neighbor as yourself? That is, a law. It was given as a law and is still a law. Do you think this law is binding upon you or are you freed from that law along with all others?
Now for others reading and realizing that the church, while full of people who are filled with the Holy Spirit, do NOT EVIDENCE that that Spirit is their keeper and teacher and guide 24/7. On this site there are rules for all of those who are filled with the Holy Spirit. Every church has laws for those full of the Holy Spirit who are supposedly have him as their teacher and guide. The whole country has laws and do not tell those filled with the Holy Spirit that those laws do not apply to them. What is the problem? Those who hold this theology do NOT WANT TO BE BOUND to obey any laws as laws are uncomfortable. Anyone can see why this is nice. You have to obey NO LAW but are lawless. "Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" is all they need to think and then claim the theory that "those filled with the Holy Spirit do not need to obey any law." See how that works? They are free from any law.
There is no difference in the mind of Christ. There is no separate "saved and going to Heaven" whether one takes up the optional extra of sanctification or remains as they were. You are buying the popular optional extra of sanctification theory which promises Heaven no matter how one lives in complete defiance of scripture. It is like saying there is the wedding and the later married life together and they are separated, the latter being a separate matter. Anyone successfully married knows this is not the case. But there are many unsuccessful marriages who do separate those and shortly after the lovely wedding decide not to go into the marriage part.My KJV Bible says, "And you are complete in him" Colossians 2:10. Which is compatible with the Gospel and justification by faith. Jesus justifies the ungodly Romans 4:5 and reconciles them unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19.
You are confusing the work of Christ, which is our justification, with the work of the Holy Spirit, which is our sanctification,
Do you believe you are under the law of loving God with all your being and your neighbor as yourself or not? Can you answer the question or does your inner conscience not allow you to do so? Does doing do put you under the law of obey God? A position you refuse to accept desiring to be under no law, even the law of loving God? Even that law you reject?Christians are not under any kind of laws, because "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believes" Romans 10:4. Jesus in our name and on our behalf has fulfilled all of the demands of God's law.
The law will not make you a better Christian, the law will make you a sinful Christian.
"But sin taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence (Lust). For without the law SIN WAS DEAD" Romans 7:8.
You need to be dead to the law, "For you are NOT under the law, but under grace" Romans 6:14.
Sanctification is the result of justification. With justification comes the Holy Spirit that will produce sanctification and the Christian life. There is no sanctification without justification. Those that claim sanctification without justification are not Christians, they are counterfeits.There is no different in the mind of Christ. There is no separate "saved and going to Heaven" whether one takes up the optional extra of sanctification or remains as they were. You are buying the popular optional extra of sanctification theory which promises Heaven no matter how one lives in complete defiance of scripture. It is like saying there is the wedding and the later married life together and they are separated, the latter being a separate matter. Anyone successfully married knows this is not the case. But there are many unsuccessful marriages who do separate those and shortly after the lovely wedding decide not to go into the marriage part.
Do you feel yourself under the law to love God or freed from that law?Sanctification is the result of justification. With justification comes the Holy Spirit that will produce sanctification and the Christian life. There is no sanctification without justification. Those that claim sanctification without justification are not Christians, they are counterfeits.
Christians (and everyone else) sin all the time.The reason that Christians cannot sin is because there is no law. Sin is the transgression of God's law. "Where there is no law, there is no sin" Romans 4:15. The law has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. Jesus nailed it to his cross, Colossians 2:14. If you are a Christian God sees you "In Christ" and only in Christ, Colossians 3:3. If he saw you outside of Christ, he would have to judge you.
You are having trouble distinguishing between the spiritual and the physical aspects of salvation, which is a concern.Christians (and everyone else) sin all the time.
Here is a better translation of Romans 4:15, "For the law brings wrath, because where there is no law there is no transgression either." What this means is that without the law to define what sin has been committed there is no knowledge of what the violation is. That does not mean that no sin has been committed.
Christians sin all the time. However, because we have accepted the penalty for our sins -- Christ's sacrifice -- those sins are not charged against us, i.e., we are guilty, but we are also forgiven.
It is not a good idea to take selected verses from different letters out of context then string them together to make the Bible say what you want it to say. Here is a good definition of eisegesis: Eisegesis is the process of interpreting text in such a way as to introduce one's own presuppositions, agendas or biases. It is commonly referred to as reading into the text." (wikipedia) This clearly applies to you.
If you love God because you are commanded to that is not love, that is Pharisaic.Do you feel yourself under the law to love God or freed from that law?
Do you know why you refuse to answer? I know why. Do you?
a) You are changing the subject.You are having trouble distinguishing between the spiritual and the physical aspects of salvation, which is a concern.
Paul clearly says, "For where there is no law, there is no sin" Romans 4:15. This scripture is for Christians only because, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to those that believe" Romans 10:4. In our name and on our behalf, Jesus fulfilled the law and abolished it, Ephesians 2:15. By nailing it to his cross, Colossians 2:14.
Spiritually, Christians are perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. Physically they are, "They are the chief of sinners" 1 Timothy 1:15.
Religious people like yourself have trouble with these scriptures because there is no way for them to become righteous if there is no law and no sin.
My KJV Bible says, "Of whom I am chief" 1 Timothy 1:15.a) You are changing the subject.
b) Christians, including both you and I, sin all the time. We are not charged with the crime because we are in Christ.
c) Religious people like yourself have trouble understanding what the Bible actually says about sin.
Here is a perfect example: You wrote "Spiritually, Christians are perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10." and "Physically they are, "They are the chief of sinners" 1 Timothy 1:15." [redundant] and a misquote. (Here is what Paul wrote in 1 Timothy 1:15, "This saying is trustworthy and deserves full acceptance: “Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners”—and I [Paul] am the worst of them!")
So according to you Christians are a) perfect and complete and b) are the chiefs of sinners. Interesting!!!
You refuse to answer the question as to whether you personally feelIf you love God because you are commanded to that is not love, that is Pharisaic.
A good Son or Daughter does not need laws, rules or religious instructions. They love their Father and would never do anything to disgrace him or make him ashamed of them.