Why Christians Cannot Sin

[Robert Pate]

You refuse to answer the question as to whether you personally feel
you are required to love God. We can assume you have freed yourself from having to do so….lawless, even including the highest. It’s a fruit of that thinking.

Jesus actually went so far as to give a NEW LAW (commandment) and no one thought they were freed from it after he had died. It was actually the reason people knew from observing them that they’d been with Jesus. They obeyed that law.

Well, it’s been interesting exploring the results of your theology.

The only thing that a Christian is required to do is to have faith in Jesus Christ. The law and the commandments are not going to save you, instead they are going to condemn you. This is why Paul said, "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.

 

[jaybo]

The reason that Christians cannot sin is because there is no law. Sin is the transgression of God's law. "Where there is no law, there is no sin" Romans 4:15. The law has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. Jesus nailed it to his cross, Colossians 2:14. If you are a Christian God sees you "In Christ" and only in Christ, Colossians 3:3. If he saw you outside of Christ, he would have to judge you.

Total nonsense! Christians can and do sin all the time.

 

[Iconoclast]

Those that are indwelt with the Holy Spirit will not do those things. If they do those things, it is because they are not real Christians, they are counterfeits.

Spiritually, Christians cannot sin, "For where there is no law there is no sin" Romans 4:15.

Christians can and do sin. You need to study these things out before announcing such ideas. God's law is everywhere.

 

[Iconoclast]

Sin is the transgression of God's law, 1 John 3:4.

There cannot be a transgression if there is no law.

"For where there is no law, there is no transgression" Romans 4:15. There is no law because, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believes" Romans 10:4. Jesus abolished the law by nailing it to his cross, Colossians 2:14. also Ephesians 2:15.

You cannot string random verses together and think it works

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Total nonsense! Christians can and do sin all the time.

He looks into the scripture and picks out the complimentary ones and decides that describes him. If he ever looks into the mirror seeing his real face, he leaves forgetting what he saw but merely repeating the scriptures he likes.

 

[Robert Pate]

He looks into the scripture and picks out the complimentary ones and decides that describes him. If he ever looks into the mirror seeing his real face, he leaves forgetting what he saw but merely repeating the scriptures he likes.

Physically, Christians are sinners. Paul makes this very clear when he referred to himself as "The chief of sinners" 1 Timothy 1:15, also Romans 7:7-25. All Christians are sinners because they have been born after Adam, Romans 5:12.

Spiritually and in God's eyes they cannot sin, nor will they be held accountable if they do sin. I keep repeating the scripture, but no one wants to believe it, "For where there is no law, there is no sin" Romans 4:15. Paul also wrote in Hebrews that under the New Covenant God said, "For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more" Hebrews 8:12.

The reason that God will not remember our sins is because, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to those that believe" Romans 10:4. Christ is the Christians righteousness because God sees all things in Jesus Christ. Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus, God sees his people as "Perfect and complete in Christ" Colossians 2:10.

If you were a Christian you would know these things, because you don't is a concern.

 

[Robert Pate]

Christians are sinners and saints at the same time. There is no such thing as total sanctification where we no longer sin. Holiness theology is a lie. What matters is that God no longer sees us as sinners because of what Jesus has accomplished for us. God sees us "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. If God sees us "In Christ" then we are totally free from sin.

 

[jaybo]

Christians are sinners and saints at the same time. There is no such thing as total sanctification where we no longer sin. Holiness theology is a lie. What matters is that God no longer sees us as sinners because of what Jesus has accomplished for us. God sees us "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. If God sees us "In Christ" then we are totally free from sin.

You wrote this: "There is no such thing as total sanctification where we no longer sin. Holiness theology is a lie" then this: "God no longer sees us as sinners because of what Jesus has accomplished for us. God sees us "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. If God sees us "In Christ" then we are totally free from sin." So, which is it???

 

[Robert Pate]

You wrote this: "There is no such thing as total sanctification where we no longer sin. Holiness theology is a lie" then this: "God no longer sees us as sinners because of what Jesus has accomplished for us. God sees us "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. If God sees us "In Christ" then we are totally free from sin." So, which is it???

Spiritually, we are perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.
Physically, we are the chief of sinners, 1 Timothy 1:15.

The spiritual is much more important than the physical.

 

[jaybo]

Spiritually, we are perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.
Physically, we are the chief of sinners, 1 Timothy 1:15.

The spiritual is much more important than the physical.

Speak for yourself! Everyone sins, Christian or not. If you consider yourself the "chief" of sinners -- a dubious distinction -- then you're above Hitler and other similar epitomes of evil.

 

[Robert Pate]

Speak for yourself! Everyone sins, Christian or not. If you consider yourself the "chief" of sinners -- a dubious distinction -- then you're above Hitler and other similar epitomes of evil.

Only those that are indwelt with the Holy Spirit will confess that they are the Chief of sinners. I believe that Paul said that he was the chief of sinners because he persecuted Christians before he was saved.

 

[jaybo]

Only those that are indwelt with the Holy Spirit will confess that they are the Chief of sinners. I believe that Paul said that he was the chief of sinners because he persecuted Christians before he was saved.

Your first sentence is totally wrong. I am "indwelt" by the Holy Spirit and am therefore regarded as sinless in Christ, as is every Christian. We are collectively the body of Christ and there is no sin in Him.

Paul said that he was the foremost of sinners because of his actions prior to becoming part of the body of Christ.

1 Timothy 1:12-17, "I am grateful to Christ Jesus our Lord, who has strengthened me, because he considered me faithful and appointed me to his service, even though I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and a man of violence. But I received mercy because I had acted ignorantly in unbelief, and the grace of our Lord overflowed for me with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. The saying is sure and worthy of full acceptance: that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the foremost. But for that very reason I received mercy, so that in me, as the foremost, Jesus Christ might display the utmost patience as an example to those who would come to believe in him for eternal life. To the King of the ages, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen."

Once again you are judging the body of Christ. Be careful, my friend. You need to read the parable about the self-righteous Pharisee and the tax collector.

 

[Robert Pate]

Your first sentence is totally wrong. I am "indwelt" by the Holy Spirit and am therefore regarded as sinless in Christ, as is every Christian. We are collectively the body of Christ and there is no sin in Him.

Paul said that he was the foremost of sinners because of his actions prior to becoming part of the body of Christ.

1 Timothy 1:12-17, "I am grateful to Christ Jesus our Lord, who has strengthened me, because he considered me faithful and appointed me to his service, even though I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and a man of violence. But I received mercy because I had acted ignorantly in unbelief, and the grace of our Lord overflowed for me with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. The saying is sure and worthy of full acceptance: that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the foremost. But for that very reason I received mercy, so that in me, as the foremost, Jesus Christ might display the utmost patience as an example to those who would come to believe in him for eternal life. To the King of the ages, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen."

Once again you are judging the body of Christ. Be careful, my friend. You need to read the parable about the self-righteous Pharisee and the tax collector.

What are you going to do about Romans 7:7-25 where Paul said, "For I know that in me (that is in my flesh) dwells no good thing: for to will is present with me: but how to perform that which is good I find not" Romans 7:18.

I have been a Christian for over 50 years, I have not known anyone that I thought was sinless.

Paul also said, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10. " For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" Romans 3:23.

If you were without sin, you would not be on this earth, you would be in heaven.

 

[Hopeful]

Only those that are indwelt with the Holy Spirit will confess that they are the Chief of sinners. I believe that Paul said that he was the chief of sinners because he persecuted Christians before he was saved.

Paul said he was the worst of those sinners saved by Christ.
But he didn't remain a persecutor of the church.

 

[Cooper]

What are you going to do about Romans 7:7-25 where Paul said, "For I know that in me (that is in my flesh) dwells no good thing: for to will is present with me: but how to perform that which is good I find not" Romans 7:18.

I have been a Christian for over 50 years, I have not known anyone that I thought was sinless.

Paul also said, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10. " For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" Romans 3:23.

If you were without sin, you would not be on this earth, you would be in heaven.

Jesus said no man can serve two masters. What do you say?
.

 

[Cooper]

What are you going to do about Romans 7:7-25 where Paul said, "For I know that in me (that is in my flesh) dwells no good thing: for to will is present with me: but how to perform that which is good I find not" Romans 7:18.

I have been a Christian for over 50 years, I have not known anyone that I thought was sinless.

Paul also said, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10. " For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" Romans 3:23.

If you were without sin, you would not be on this earth, you would be in heaven.

Romans 7:15 Now the apostle describes the struggle that goes on in a believer who does not know the truth of his identification with Christ in death and resurrection. It is the conflict between the two natures in the person who climbs Mount Sinai in search of holiness. Harry Foster explains:

Here was a man trying to achieve holiness by personal effort, struggling with all his might to fulfill God's “holy and righteous and good” commandments (v.12), only to discover that the more he struggled, the worse his condition became. It was a losing battle, and no wonder, for it is not in the power of fallen human nature to conquer sin and live in holiness.

Notice the prominence of the first-person pronouns—I, me, my, myself; they occur over forty times in verses 9-25! People who go through this Romans 7 experience have taken an overdose of “Vitamin I.” They are introspective to the core, searching for victory in self, where it cannot be found.

Sadly, most modern Christian psychological counselling focuses the counselee's attention on himself and thus adds to the problem instead of relieving it. People need to know that they have died with Christ and have risen with Him to walk in newness of life. Then, instead of trying to improve the flesh, they will relegate it to the grave of Jesus.

In describing the struggle between the two natures, Paul says, what I am doing, I do not understand. He is a split personality, a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. He finds himself indulging in things that he doesn't want to do, and practicing things that he hates.

7:16 In thus committing acts which his better judgment condemns, he is taking sides with the law against himself, because the law condemns them too. So he gives inward assent that the law is good.

7:17 This leads to the conclusion that the culprit is not the new man in Christ, but the sinful, corrupt nature that dwells in him. But we must be careful here. We must not excuse our sinning by passing it off to indwelling sin. We are responsible for what we do, and we must not use this verse to “pass the buck.” All Paul is doing here is tracking down the source of his sinful behavior, not excusing it.

7:18 There can be no progress in holiness until we learn what Paul learned here—that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells. The flesh here means the evil, corrupt nature which is inherited from Adam and which is still in every believer. It is the source of every evil action which a person performs. There is nothing good in it.

When we learn this, it delivers us from ever looking for any good in the old nature. It delivers us from being disappointed when we don't find any good there. And it delivers us from occupation with ourselves. There is no victory in introspection. As the saintly Scot, Robert Murray McCheyne said, for every look we take at ourselves, we should take ten looks at Christ.

To confirm the hopelessness of the flesh, the apostle mourns that although he has the desire to do what is right, he doesn't have the resources in himself to translate his desire into action. The trouble, of course, is that he is casting his anchor inside the boat.

7:19 Thus the conflict between the two natures rages on. He finds himself failing to do the good he wants to do, and instead doing the evil that he despises. He is just one great mass of contradictions and paradoxes.

7:20 We might paraphrase this verse as follows: “Now if I (the old nature) do what I (the new nature) don't want to do, it is no longer I (the person) who do it, but sin that dwells within me.” Again let it be clear that Paul is not excusing himself or disclaiming responsibility. He is simply stating that he has not found deliverance from the power of indwelling sin, and that when he sins, it is not with the desire of the new man.

7:21 He finds a principle or law at work in his life causing all his good intentions to end in failure. When he wants to do what is right, he ends up by sinning.

7:22 As far as his new nature is concerned, he delights in the law of God. He knows that the law is holy, and that it is an expression of the will of God. He wants to do God's will.

7:23 But he sees a contrary principle at work in his life, striving against the new nature, and making him a captive of indwelling sin. George Cutting writes: The law, though he delights in it after the inward man, gives him no power. In other words, he is trying to accomplish what God has declared to be an utter impossibility—namely, making the flesh subject to God's holy law. He finds that the flesh minds the things of the flesh, and is very enmity itself to the law of God, and even to God Himself.

7:24 Now Paul lets out his famous, eloquent groan. He feels as if he has a decomposing body strapped to his back. That body, of course, is the old nature in all its corruption. In his wretchedness he acknowledges that he is unable to deliver himself from this offensive, repulsive bondage. He must have help from some outside source.

7:25 The burst of thanksgiving which opens this verse may be understood in at least two ways. It may mean “I thank God that deliverance comes through Jesus Christ our Lord” or it may be an aside in which Paul thanks God through the Lord Jesus that he is no longer the wretched man of the preceding verse.

The rest of the verse summarizes the conflict between the two natures before deliverance is realized. With the renewed mind, or the new nature, the believer serves the law of God, but with the flesh or (old nature) the law of sin. Not till we reach the next chapter do we find the way of deliverance explained.

(Believers Bible)

So, seek deliverance from the old nature instead of excusing it. This is the narrow path we need to walk, the race we need to run, so the golden crown may be won.
.

 

[D-D-W]

I didn't say that, Paul did. I am just quoting Paul.
Paul said, "For where there is no law, there is no sin" Romans 4:15.

Both my dad and step dad believed that, and that it meant they did not have to follow the laws of the land. Neither wore seat belts as required, and it cost my dad his life when he went thru the windshield in a front end collision.

I would submit 2 things:
1 - your definition of "sin" is lacking
2 - you do not recognize when "sin" is being used differently in different passages

 

[Robert Pate]

Jesus said no man can serve two masters. What do you say?
.

Paul said that he served two masters, Romans 7:25.

 

[Robert Pate]

Romans 7:15 Now the apostle describes the struggle that goes on in a believer who does not know the truth of his identification with Christ in death and resurrection. It is the conflict between the two natures in the person who climbs Mount Sinai in search of holiness. Harry Foster explains:

Here was a man trying to achieve holiness by personal effort, struggling with all his might to fulfill God's “holy and righteous and good” commandments (v.12), only to discover that the more he struggled, the worse his condition became. It was a losing battle, and no wonder, for it is not in the power of fallen human nature to conquer sin and live in holiness.

Notice the prominence of the first-person pronouns—I, me, my, myself; they occur over forty times in verses 9-25! People who go through this Romans 7 experience have taken an overdose of “Vitamin I.” They are introspective to the core, searching for victory in self, where it cannot be found.

Sadly, most modern Christian psychological counselling focuses the counselee's attention on himself and thus adds to the problem instead of relieving it. People need to know that they have died with Christ and have risen with Him to walk in newness of life. Then, instead of trying to improve the flesh, they will relegate it to the grave of Jesus.

In describing the struggle between the two natures, Paul says, what I am doing, I do not understand. He is a split personality, a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. He finds himself indulging in things that he doesn't want to do, and practicing things that he hates.

7:16 In thus committing acts which his better judgment condemns, he is taking sides with the law against himself, because the law condemns them too. So he gives inward assent that the law is good.

7:17 This leads to the conclusion that the culprit is not the new man in Christ, but the sinful, corrupt nature that dwells in him. But we must be careful here. We must not excuse our sinning by passing it off to indwelling sin. We are responsible for what we do, and we must not use this verse to “pass the buck.” All Paul is doing here is tracking down the source of his sinful behavior, not excusing it.

7:18 There can be no progress in holiness until we learn what Paul learned here—that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells. The flesh here means the evil, corrupt nature which is inherited from Adam and which is still in every believer. It is the source of every evil action which a person performs. There is nothing good in it.

When we learn this, it delivers us from ever looking for any good in the old nature. It delivers us from being disappointed when we don't find any good there. And it delivers us from occupation with ourselves. There is no victory in introspection. As the saintly Scot, Robert Murray McCheyne said, for every look we take at ourselves, we should take ten looks at Christ.

To confirm the hopelessness of the flesh, the apostle mourns that although he has the desire to do what is right, he doesn't have the resources in himself to translate his desire into action. The trouble, of course, is that he is casting his anchor inside the boat.

7:19 Thus the conflict between the two natures rages on. He finds himself failing to do the good he wants to do, and instead doing the evil that he despises. He is just one great mass of contradictions and paradoxes.

7:20 We might paraphrase this verse as follows: “Now if I (the old nature) do what I (the new nature) don't want to do, it is no longer I (the person) who do it, but sin that dwells within me.” Again let it be clear that Paul is not excusing himself or disclaiming responsibility. He is simply stating that he has not found deliverance from the power of indwelling sin, and that when he sins, it is not with the desire of the new man.

7:21 He finds a principle or law at work in his life causing all his good intentions to end in failure. When he wants to do what is right, he ends up by sinning.

7:22 As far as his new nature is concerned, he delights in the law of God. He knows that the law is holy, and that it is an expression of the will of God. He wants to do God's will.

7:23 But he sees a contrary principle at work in his life, striving against the new nature, and making him a captive of indwelling sin. George Cutting writes: The law, though he delights in it after the inward man, gives him no power. In other words, he is trying to accomplish what God has declared to be an utter impossibility—namely, making the flesh subject to God's holy law. He finds that the flesh minds the things of the flesh, and is very enmity itself to the law of God, and even to God Himself.

7:24 Now Paul lets out his famous, eloquent groan. He feels as if he has a decomposing body strapped to his back. That body, of course, is the old nature in all its corruption. In his wretchedness he acknowledges that he is unable to deliver himself from this offensive, repulsive bondage. He must have help from some outside source.

7:25 The burst of thanksgiving which opens this verse may be understood in at least two ways. It may mean “I thank God that deliverance comes through Jesus Christ our Lord” or it may be an aside in which Paul thanks God through the Lord Jesus that he is no longer the wretched man of the preceding verse.

The rest of the verse summarizes the conflict between the two natures before deliverance is realized. With the renewed mind, or the new nature, the believer serves the law of God, but with the flesh or (old nature) the law of sin. Not till we reach the next chapter do we find the way of deliverance explained.

(Believers Bible)

So, seek deliverance from the old nature instead of excusing it. This is the narrow path we need to walk, the race we need to run, so the golden crown may be won.
.

As long as we are in these unredeemed Adamic bodies the struggle will continue, Romans 8:23. Only those that are indwelt with the Holy Spirit have a Problem. "For the flesh lusts against the Spirt, and the Spirit against flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that you cannot do the things that you would" Galatians 5:17.

 

[Robert Pate]

Both my dad and step dad believed that, and that it meant they did not have to follow the laws of the land. Neither wore seat belts as required, and it cost my dad his life when he went thru the windshield in a front end collision.

I would submit 2 things:
1 - your definition of "sin" is lacking
2 - you do not recognize when "sin" is being used differently in different passages

Sorry about your dads.

Sin is the transgression of God's law, 1 John 3:4. There are hundreds and hundreds of laws in the Bible, if you fail to do the whole law you are a sinner, James 2:10 and are under the curse, Galatians 3:10.