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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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smaller
Member
Every Word of God is True. What's your point?
I might submit that unless one has read from the seat of the fool himself, he is not yet wise.
1 Corinthians 3:18
Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
Gods Word doesn't change in either setting.
Depends on how you read it doesn't it? Easy street will always pin the matters on somebody else.
Ah, yes, the fool in the eyes of many are those who do not see things like 'you.' Yeah, I'm familiar with that claim.
What? A false claim of conflict and 'either or.' There was nothing there to address, other than the construct being a logical fallacy setup to begin with.
I can read what sin is from the text.
Anything not of faith
Transgression of THE LAW
Of the DEVIL
Yeah, the almighty glory of only being RIGHT.
If that works in your mind, more power to ya!
s
It's not God's word that is in question, it's your ability to obey God's word when given two choices that are exactly opposite.
You must be led by the Spirit, not by the letter of the Law!
4 Do not answer a fool according to his folly, Lest you also be like him. 5 Answer a fool according to his folly, Lest he be wise in his own eyes.
Sin would be doing the wrong thing in this situation.
I comes from the attitude that says, "I can" read what sin is!
You continue to prove my point!
Anything not of faith, is sin!
The Law is not of faith!
Hear is what God's word says -
1 Now the Lord called to Moses, and spoke to him from the tabernacle of meeting, saying, 2 "Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: 'When any one of you brings an offering to the Lord, you shall bring your offering of the livestock--of the herd and of the flock. 3 'If his offering is a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish; he shall offer it of his own free will at the door of the tabernacle of meeting before the Lord. 4 Then he shall put his hand on the head of the burnt offering, and it will be accepted on his behalf to make atonement for him. Leviticus 1:1-4
Do you obey this when you sin?
It's God's word! Yes or No!
JLB
JLB
Davies
Member
Good morning Mitspa,
Reading this post this morning caused me to ask some questions. If Jesus was the Law and the law was a shadow or type of Him, why should we be afraid to look at the law to check our behavior? If I find myself sinning, I can say I'm not walking according to the Spirit, and I can be sorry for my sin, repent, confess my sin to Jesus, and thank Him for forgiving me. I set myself against what I did, and strive to not do it again because of my love for Jesus. Is that wrong? Have I looked to the Law to be justified? I see that Jesus has kept the law for me; I'm justified by His righteousness; the Law does not condemn me.
I fail to see why you and JLB think that I or smaller are looking to the law to be justified. Is it because we say the law is spiritual, good, and holy? Do you assume because we hold that, you think we are trying to justify ourselves by the law?
If Jesus was the Law as you say, I don't think you should have a problem with us looking at the law. The cross shows the Law was upheld, and at the same time Jesus pardons those who put their trust in Him. There is no conflict, and if we walk by the Spirit, living with gratitude for having received the gift of His righteousness, we will find that our behavior will not conflict with the law either. When I sin though, I can say that I'm not walking according to the Spirit.
I hope you have a good Sunday,
- Davies
smaller
Member
And will continue to point to the simplicity that the LETTER and the SPIRIT are not in any kind of 'conflicts.'
1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
s
smaller
Member
All have sin and have sinned. There is no way to avoid that factual conclusion either. The fact wraps up both present and past tense conditions for 'all.'
This is a matter of scriptural fact including the TEN COMMANDMENTS that prove it to be a fact.
Galatians 3:22
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Faith does not 'eliminate' this fact or change the 'conclusion.'
s
Paul said it this way -
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word...
He is referring to the old testament shadow of the Laver!We look into the Word to see where we need to be cleansed, but we wash in the water, The Spirit.
James -
17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning. 18 Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures. 19 So then, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath; 20 for the wrath of man does not produce the righteousness of God. 21 Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls. 22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; 24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. 25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does. 26 If anyone among you thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this one's religion is useless. 27 Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world. James 1:17-27
We are not to be doers of the works of the Law, rather the commandants of the Gospel!
Paul also said -
1 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this we will do if God permits. 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. Hebrews 6:1-6
Does the Law of Moses produce perfection?
If you constantly need to read the ten commandments to "see" if you are in sin, then you probably have need of being born again and be baptized in the Holy Spirit!
We all need desperately to feed on God's word daily.
What we look at, produces a desire for the thing we see.
By reading the word we have a desire for what we see in the Word, however it is by The spirit that we are empowered to do the word that we see.
JLB
Hear is what God's word says -
1 Now the Lord called to Moses, and spoke to him from the tabernacle of meeting, saying, 2 "Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: 'When any one of you brings an offering to the Lord, you shall bring your offering of the livestock--of the herd and of the flock. 3 'If his offering is a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish; he shall offer it of his own free will at the door of the tabernacle of meeting before the Lord. 4 Then he shall put his hand on the head of the burnt offering, and it will be accepted on his behalf to make atonement for him. Leviticus 1:1-4
Do you obey this when you sin?
This is God's word! He commanded exactly what kind of animal to sacrifice and how, when you sin.
It is a simple question, Do you obey this commandment from God, when you sin?
If you don't then answer why.
JLB
smaller
Member
And to that conclusion I doubt any of us would disagree.
The rabid press to deny Gods Words are really not a requirement of the 'faithful.'
Even if some of the conclusions of same can seem to be against us at first taste.
Said early in this thread that if the Word and the Spirit are against sin and evil, which is certainly the case, then it is hard to make a case for being against those conclusions of LETTER and SPIRIT as believers.
It's not a difficult sight to come into.
s
M
Mitspa
Guest
Good morning of afternoon Davies!
Lets look at the difference? The law of Moses commanded that we love God with all our heart mind and soul?
No man can pretend to be able to do that by looking at the written letter of the commandment! anyone who claims thay do is just a deceived liar!
Now us consider that Christ Came and proved His Love for us, that love is shed abroad in our hearts, by THE SPIRIT, AS WE LOOK TO CHRIST! no man really knows love until he looks to Christ and receives His Love , freely apart from earning it!
So if we have stopped judging ourselves and others by the law of moses, but have come unto the ROYAL LAW OF CHRIST.
then we can understand the purpose for the law of moses!
But NO ONE CAN BEHOLD CHRIST AND MOSES AT THE SAME TIME, MOSES MUST DISAPPEAR AS ON THE MOUNT OF TRANSFIGURATION!
now i know some of you are claiming you are not under law, but yet you judge yourself by the law? Thats just religious double talk, from a double minded man!
smaller
Member
I largely reject the carnal notions only of what THE LETTER is.
Everytime you pick up the law of the O.T. you will only see 'animal sacrifice.'
That is not the entirety of those matters.
These matters are also contained IN LAW:
Matthew 23:23
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
You can reject that these matters are IN LAW. Jesus says otherwise.
You can say you don't and can't see it, and that I understand. Only that you might not be able to 'see' that those matters ARE in LAW. As are these matters:
Romans 3:21
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
And again, if you can't see it, I would understand. But these matters are in fact IN LAW as Paul states.
This is IN LAW as well:
1 Peter 1:10
Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
And again, to say these matters are not IN LAW or by THE PROPHETS only means a reader can not see them, not that they are not there to be seen.
The above are ALL FACTS of the LAW and the PROPHETS and are there to be seen, even if by SHADOWS.
s
Davies
Member
Hi JLB,
I'm not promoting looking to the law to be cleansed from my sin. What I'm saying is that the law of God shows us to be sinners, then we understand our need for salvation, and after becoming Christians, the law shows us how much God has forgiven us as we grow in His grace. It also shows us when we are not walking by the Spirit.
What are the commands of the Gospel? I think the commands are to repent and put your faith in Jesus Christ. We can have confidence in knowing we are saved when we trust in Jesus. Jesus said we should love one another. Isn't this command wrapped up in all the law?
Matthew 22:38-40
New King James Version (NKJV)
38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’[a] 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”
The religious leaders of Jesus' day didn't understand what sin was based on the Ten Commandments, and the majority of people don't understand sin today as well. People don't see their need for salvation, rather they stand on their own righteousness and their own 'goodness'. They use a different standard other than the Ten Commandments, and so they would be just as guilty of sin as the almost Christian is if he tried to keep the Ten Commandments to be right with God.
I'll ask the question again, why do you think I'm looking to the law of God to be justified?
- Davies
M
Mitspa
Guest
The scriptures declare that by Christ Jesus we have been justified from all the things that we could not be justfied by the law of moses!
We have been justified freely by His grace , by His own Blood he set us free from the law of sin and death!
If He has justified you your faith, then how can the law of moses make you a sinner?
If I lived in China was under Chinese law, then I moved to the USA and came under a new and better system of law!
WHY WOULD I LOOK BACK AT THE LAW IN CHINA? IT CAN NOT MAKE ME GUILTY NOR CAN IT HELP ME!
no! think about what you are trying to promote!
smaller
Member
Hebrews 10:1
For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
The above statement was written AFTER Jesus arrival, death and resurrection, showing that there are yet good things to come SHOWN in the LAW or the writer would have concluded the matters had already come and been concluded.
They have not. There are other matters that are in THE LAW. Many.
Paul sees the same thing here:
Col. 2:
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come -
And again, well after the facts of Christ. There are matters shadowed, to be seen in LAW.
And some will say that is not so, but again, Paul shows that matters of the O.T. were actually written for US:
1 Corinthians 10:11
Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
I gave this example early to Os, that an obscure LAW of MOSES was in fact written for US as Paul clearly clearly states:
1 Cor. 9:
8 Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?
9 For it is written in the law of Moses, thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written:
that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
The challenge is thrown down here by Paul. Was THAT LAW merely about OXEN and CORN? Uh, no. That is not whatsoever what that LAW meant.
The challenge is upon EVERY believer to find out HOW it is that Paul 'extracted' his facts from that LAW, and that is not a small challenge. It is there however to be seen and had and is in fact just as Paul stated, WRITTEN FOR US.
If some deny that, they only do so to their own detriment as there is actually much to be gathered and seen in those matters and they had little if anything to do with OXEN and CORN
Even though Paul gives the reader an OPENING there to understand what those TERMS actually equate to, few seem to be able to pick up on it.
The text will not YIELD to those who REJECT same. This much is sure.
s
For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
The above statement was written AFTER Jesus arrival, death and resurrection, showing that there are yet good things to come SHOWN in the LAW or the writer would have concluded the matters had already come and been concluded.
They have not. There are other matters that are in THE LAW. Many.
Paul sees the same thing here:
Col. 2:
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come -
And again, well after the facts of Christ. There are matters shadowed, to be seen in LAW.
And some will say that is not so, but again, Paul shows that matters of the O.T. were actually written for US:
1 Corinthians 10:11
Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
I gave this example early to Os, that an obscure LAW of MOSES was in fact written for US as Paul clearly clearly states:
1 Cor. 9:
8 Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?
9 For it is written in the law of Moses, thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written:
that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
The challenge is thrown down here by Paul. Was THAT LAW merely about OXEN and CORN? Uh, no. That is not whatsoever what that LAW meant.
The challenge is upon EVERY believer to find out HOW it is that Paul 'extracted' his facts from that LAW, and that is not a small challenge. It is there however to be seen and had and is in fact just as Paul stated, WRITTEN FOR US.
If some deny that, they only do so to their own detriment as there is actually much to be gathered and seen in those matters and they had little if anything to do with OXEN and CORN
Even though Paul gives the reader an OPENING there to understand what those TERMS actually equate to, few seem to be able to pick up on it.
The text will not YIELD to those who REJECT same. This much is sure.
s
M
Mitspa
Guest
So again I ask you who claim we are under law, what part of the jot and tittle did Christ fail to fulfill?
If He fulfilled it all? (and He clearly did) then you who are attempting to look to it to keep it, are IN FACT in rebellion against the work of Christ, you have become an enemy of the Cross!
Now again if a man in the USA, says he is trying to establish the law of China then he is in fact in rebellion against the law of the USA!
If you want to be under the law of China, renouce your citizenship and move to China!
Davies
Member
Mistpa,
What makes you think I look to the law to be justified? Do you think I condemn myself because I sin? Point to what I have written that says either one of these things.
When Jesus said to love your neighbor as yourself, I don't think He had in mind false accusations. This may be a great example of how the law works. Thou shalt not bear false witness. But what happens, a person is accused of trying to look to law to be justified, even when he is saying the opposite. We see God's law broken in all sorts of ways through this thread. Does the law condemn you because you falsely accuse me? Do I condemn you for falsely accusing me? No. But the law of God points us to Jesus, and we should be willing to humble ourselves, confess our sin, and grow in the grace of God. How else should we behave when we do other things that are wrong in God's site? No one here is saying look to the law to be justified.
- Davies
What makes you think I look to the law to be justified? Do you think I condemn myself because I sin? Point to what I have written that says either one of these things.
When Jesus said to love your neighbor as yourself, I don't think He had in mind false accusations. This may be a great example of how the law works. Thou shalt not bear false witness. But what happens, a person is accused of trying to look to law to be justified, even when he is saying the opposite. We see God's law broken in all sorts of ways through this thread. Does the law condemn you because you falsely accuse me? Do I condemn you for falsely accusing me? No. But the law of God points us to Jesus, and we should be willing to humble ourselves, confess our sin, and grow in the grace of God. How else should we behave when we do other things that are wrong in God's site? No one here is saying look to the law to be justified.
- Davies
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M
Mitspa
Guest
My friend , I can go back and find a post where you said you were very much condemned! now I am not here to find fault in you! I am here to set you free from the law of sin and death, the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones!
What has any man but what has given to him by the grace of God? Now any man that has power over his flesh, he was given that power by Grace! so those who have power over your flesh, why do you act as if you did it by works of law? If you desire to see people free from sin? preach grace!