WHY DID GOD GIVE THE TEN COMMANDMENTS?

[JLB]

And to that conclusion I doubt any of us would disagree.

The rabid press to deny Gods Words are really not a requirement of the 'faithful.'

Even if some of the conclusions of same can seem to be against us at first taste.

Said early in this thread that if the Word and the Spirit are against sin and evil, which is certainly the case, then it is hard to make a case for being against those conclusions of LETTER and SPIRIT as believers.

It's not a difficult sight to come into.

s

God is not the author of confusion!

You seem to talk in circles without ever answering a direct question.

Ever learning yet never coming to the knowledge of the truth.

If I ask you if you obey God's word to sacrifice animals to make atonement for your sin, you don't answer, but rather you go on about this and that.

The Law has changed! The priesthood has changed!

Why? Because we are part of a new covenant!

What is so hard about that question, unless you yourself don't believe we are under the new covenant.


JLB

 

[wayseer]

So again I ask you who claim we are under law, what part of the jot and tittle did Christ fail to fulfill?

In following your posts I am not sure you know how Jesus fulfilled all the Law and the Prophets.

How did Jesus 'fulfil' the Law? How did that take place? Which Law did he fulfil'? If Jesus 'fulfilled' the Law what was it that needed 'fulfilling'?

These are questions that require responses. You write a lot and quote many passages of scripture but I am left wondering what it all means.

 

[smaller]

God is not the author of confusion!

I would say you perhaps don't pay close attention to the text.

God confused the languages of man at the Tower of Babel. And I'd dare say the confusion still reigns to a very certain extent, particularly in trying to engage in simple dialog with believers.

You seem to talk in circles without ever answering a direct question.

If you 'sensed' that I am not fond of simplistic notions you would be correct!

How many of those types of either or schematics have you tried with me anyway? Must be several by now. As if they were the summary of every sight. Quite funny actually. Entertaining even.

Ever learning yet never coming to the knowledge of the truth.

If I ask you if you obey God's word to sacrifice animals to make atonement for your sin, you don't answer, but rather you go on about this and that.

I just gave a nice little clip about OXEN and CORN from 1st Corinthians 9.

Perhaps you'd care to take a swipe at that matter. It's in post #496, and IN THAT segement Paul shows openly that neither OXEN or CORN have anything to do with that particular LAW that Paul says also was 'written for us.'

See if you can bring out a nice 'either or' on that one. Could be interesting.

The Law has changed! The priesthood has changed!

Ah, I see. To what I may ask? Only your caricatures of same?

By what filter do you insist it be sifted through? Tossing Gods Words aside is not an option for me just so you know.

Why? Because we are part of a new covenant!

Do you even know that both the covenants and the LAW were given even to ABRAHAM?

If you don't think it so, read all about it in Galatians 4 where Paul lays it out quite nicely!

What is so hard about that question, unless you yourself don't believe we are under the new covenant.

JLB

Oh, you mean the covenants as only YOU see them?

I happen to believe that Gods Words remain vehemently against ALL EVIL AND SIN from cover to cover, and that believers inclusive of myself are like Paul, having 'evil present' with us just as he did and that the OLD COVENANT remains firmly written against EVERY EVIL AND SIN.

Knowing that fact keeps me from becoming delusional in my faith or needing somebody to sift through the facts in order to 'save me' and 'free me' from Gods Own Words, as is the promotions of some.

If you don't believe the OLD COVENANT is against 'works of the flesh' that 'believers' are of no uncertain fact, potentially subject to AGAIN, Paul will again nicely apply this side of the LAW in Galatians 5, here:

Gal. 5:
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

IN light of the fact that I have no interest in being a SLAVE OF EVIL OR SIN and have been called to inherit His Kingdom by faith, it may pay to avoid falling into those DEATH TRAPS.

And wow, the Law seems to be against those matters too! The LAW must be LYING and we should toss it all away immediately?

The LAW just has to be against Grace. It just HAS to be!

Romans 3:31
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: -


In simpler terms that would be a firm NO.

s

 

[smaller]

In following your posts I am not sure you know how Jesus fulfilled all the Law and the Prophets.

How did Jesus 'fulfil' the Law? How did that take place? Which Law did he fulfil'? If Jesus 'fulfilled' the Law what was it that needed 'fulfilling'?

These are questions that require responses. You write a lot and quote many passages of scripture but I am left wondering what it all means.

In the opening posters eyes this seems to be the role he fancies for himself:

"I am here to set you free"

I think that job category has already been filled.

s

 

[Davies]

My friend , I can go back and find a post where you said you were very much condemned! now I am not here to find fault in you! I am here to set you free from the law of sin and death, the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones!

What has any man but what has given to him by the grace of God? Now any man that has power over his flesh, he was given that power by Grace! so those who have power over your flesh, why do you act as if you did it by works of law? If you desire to see people free from sin? preach grace!

Mitspa,

You say you can find a post where I've said I was condemned. Quote it.

- Davies

 

[wayseer]

In the opening posters eyes this seems to be the role he fancies for himself:

"I am here to set you free"

I think that job category has already been filled.

s

Cliches and jargon don't rate. You need to explain your position.

If, as you say, Jesus has set us 'free' - free what what and how did he do that?

 

[smaller]

Cliches and jargon don't rate. You need to explain your position.

If, as you say, Jesus has set us 'free' - free what what and how did he do that?

I was quoting Mitspa, not Jesus, from post #499.

I do not believe Jesus freed me from the facts of having indwelling sin and evil present with me just so you know, so be warned that I tend to speak truthfully about these matters.

And you might also be warned that Paul laid out those same facts to himself, which I tend to appreciate for his honesty in the matters.

s

 

[Mitspa]

God is not the author of confusion!

You seem to talk in circles without ever answering a direct question.

Ever learning yet never coming to the knowledge of the truth.

If I ask you if you obey God's word to sacrifice animals to make atonement for your sin, you don't answer, but rather you go on about this and that.

The Law has changed! The priesthood has changed!

Why? Because we are part of a new covenant!

What is so hard about that question, unless you yourself don't believe we are under the new covenant.


JLB

I spent months and hours trying to get what you are asking?
Guess what? There is some that would believe if Jesus Himself told them personally!

some ask me why I ignore some on this forum?
After I see there is no desire for truth, I can no longer help anyone!
I am longsuffering and try to be patient, but the sciptures tell us to reject such people! cast not your pearls!

 

[Mitspa]

Mitspa,

You say you can find a post where I've said I was condemned. Quote it.

- Davies

we both know you did! I am not wasting my time to prove to others what two honest "christian" men know is true!

I guess thou shall not bear false witness has caused an evil desire in you to do that which the letter commands you not to do! See Rom 7

You guess always seem to want to make things personal, when you cannot prove your false doctrines!

Why is that, I wonder?

 

[wayseer]

I was quoting Mitspa, not Jesus, from post #499.

I do not believe Jesus freed me from the facts of having indwelling sin and evil present with me just so you know, so be warned that I tend to speak truthfully about these matters.

And you might also be warned that Paul laid out those same facts to himself, which I tend to appreciate for his honesty in the matters.

s

You might like to actually give some reasons for your position. I can read Paul for myself - I am more interested in what you have to say.

If you are still 'bound' then I am left wondering what Jesus' death actually means to you.

 

[Mitspa]

In following your posts I am not sure you know how Jesus fulfilled all the Law and the Prophets.

How did Jesus 'fulfil' the Law? How did that take place? Which Law did he fulfil'? If Jesus 'fulfilled' the Law what was it that needed 'fulfilling'?

These are questions that require responses. You write a lot and quote many passages of scripture but I am left wondering what it all means.

I have been in some circles with you also wayseer! If you are honest in your desire to know more, then I would have to ask you what is your point of knowledge? do you understand such things as the temple and blood sacrifices that was demanded by the Law of Moses, for the sins of the people?

Could you give me an idea of what you do understand? and then we can start from that piont! -Mitspa

 

[smaller]

You might like to actually give some reasons for your position. I can read Paul for myself - I am more interested in what you have to say.

If you are still 'bound' then I am left wondering what Jesus' death actually means to you.

That is perhaps an endless contemplation for me.

As to His death, we know Him after the flesh no longer.

Do I think God counts sins against us? Depends on your view of 'us.'

s

 

[Davies]

we both know you did! I am not wasting my time to prove to others what two honest "christian" men know is true!

I guess thou shall not bear false witness has caused an evil desire in you to do that which the letter commands you not to do! See Rom 7

You guess always seem to want to make things personal, when you cannot prove your false doctrines!

Why is that, I wonder?

Mitspa,

The reason you cannot quote me as saying I was condemned is because I did not say I was condemned. We were condemned before coming to Jesus, but we know there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. I ask anyone else who has taken the time to read this thread, please quote me as saying I stand condemned, and I will say I was wrong, and I will apologize to Mitspa; I will stand corrected. As it is now, you, Mitspa, stand as a liar. That is not an attack. Thou shalt not bear false witness.

- Davies

 

[smaller]

Mitspa,

The reason you cannot quote me as saying I was condemned is because I did not say I was condemned. We were condemned before coming to Jesus, but we know there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. I ask anyone else who has taken the time to read this thread, please quote me as saying I stand condemned, and I will say I was wrong, and I will apologize to Mitspa; I will stand corrected. As it is now, you, Mitspa, stand as a liar. That is not an attack. Thou shalt not bear false witness.

- Davies

I don't recall you ever saying that Davies.

 

[wayseer]

Could you give me an idea of what you do understand? and then we can start from that piont! -Mitspa

The Law served to separate Israel from the pagan world but the Law could not do anything about purity. The sacrificial system served as a means of making pure that which was unclean for it was only the pure who could entered into the presence of God - and the access to the Holy and Holies was limited to once a year by the High Priest and only then after many washings and purifications. But then the whole system had to repeated every year - every time one became unclean. And there were those, such as women, who would never be 'pure' enough.

While the Temple system worked it did not work well enough.

Jesus took every sin, past present and future, and made a sacrifice that would achieve what bulls and goats could not. Thus, in Jesus death the Law was 'fulfilled' completely symbolized by the Temple curtain being town in two and God was no longer only accessible to the spiritual elite but to all humanity.

Now it's your turn.

 

[Mitspa]

You can call me a wicked man all you want to, for you haven't accused me of a fraction of my sin. I do have a lot of guilt, and I naturally feel bad because of it. I know that I'm a sinner, giving credence to everything that God has said. Let God be true, and everyman a liar. But you assume my reasons for self-examination, and presume that I don't look to Christ.

I can still rejoice in this correspondence because I know you preach the Gospel.

Job 16:1-5

New King James Version (NKJV)

Job Reproaches His Pitiless Friends

16 Then Job answered and said:
2 “I have heard many such things;
Miserable comforters are you all!
3 Shall words of wind have an end?
Or what provokes you that you answer?
4 I also could speak as you do,
If your soul were in my soul’s place.
I could heap up words against you,
And shake my head at you;
5 But I would strengthen you with my mouth,
And the comfort of my lips would relieve your grief.


From one wretch to the other,

- Davies

I could post your PM to me? but I think I will let this all pass by.

 

[Mitspa]

The Law served to separate Israel from the pagan world but the Law could not do anything about purity. The sacrificial system served as a means of making pure that which was unclean for it was only the pure who could entered into the presence of God - and the access to the Holy and Holies was limited to once a year by the High Priest and only then after many washings and purifications. But then the whole system had to repeated every year - every time one became unclean. And there were those, such as women, who would never be 'pure' enough.

While the Temple system worked it did not work well enough.

Jesus took every sin, past present and future, and made a sacrifice that would achieve what bulls and goats could not. Thus, in Jesus death the Law was 'fulfilled' completely symbolized by the Temple curtain being town in two and God was no longer only accessible to the spiritual elite but to all humanity.

Now it's your turn.

What do you want? I agree with your view!

Maybe you should read your post to me again?
I am not interested in trying to just spill out what I know for the sake of being a big shot or being seen as something?

The post and points I make on this thread are for the pupose of helping other believers see the Truth of the Gospel, not to make some think that I am some kind of bible teacher, that knows alot of bible stuff?

If you have a certain point you dont understand, then I will gladly give you my veiw! I may not know the answer? I am ok with that! but what I do know, I know! If you know what I mean? lol

 

[wayseer]

What do you want? I agree with your view!

Maybe you should read your post to me again?
I am not interested in trying to just spill out what I know for the sake of being a big shot or being seen as something?

The post and points I make on this thread are for the pupose of helping other believers see the Truth of the Gospel, not to make some think that I am some kind of bible teacher, that knows alot of bible stuff?

If you have a certain point you dont understand, then I will gladly give you my veiw! I may not know the answer? I am ok with that! but what I do know, I know! If you know what I mean? lol

I asked a series of question and you invited my view which I offered.

I am yet to hear what you really think - but if you feel dialogue is 'to just spill out what I know for the sake of being a big shot or being seen as something' then I can understand your defensive position might have more to do with fact that your don't know.

 

[Davies]

I could post your PM to me? but I think I will let this all pass by.

Hi Mitspa,

I'll spare you the trouble of posting my private messages. That was Christ like for you to offer.

[FONT=&quot]What You Know [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Hi Mi,

I'm interested in learning what you know about learning to love more. Since my world doesn't include many Christians, I do go to church, but it seems every relationship is long distance, and any insight you may have, I'm willing to listen. I think I know the basics, but I have to admit I'm not good at applying them. Each day keeps me busy, and my time reading the Bible, talking with you guys, and listening to the radio is my haven when I'm not working. I know I need to pray more, and more fervently. I can have a cold heart, blinded to the needs around me, why? Frankly, I think it's because I'm not being content with what God has given me. The cross is not clear even as is towers over me. You know, I feel like the blind man that was healed gradually by Jesus. Jesus healed him a little, and everything was blurry. Jesus healed him a little more, and the people appeared as trees. Then Jesus healed him completely and the man was no longer blind. I'm certain the answer lies within applying the Gospel, and dieing to self. I still feel like I'm in Romans 7.

- Davies [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Re: What You Know [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mitspa,

Thank you for sharing this with me. Because my prayers have been cold, I've resorted for a period of time to writing in a journal, typing a journal, and this seems to help me think and pray. It's as if I have to slow down in order to pray. It could be one of the reasons why I've stayed on this forum so long. I've never been one to have patience to stay in an online forum for very long because of the judgmental nature of people. Perhaps God has allowed me to bear a little fruit. The Scripture that comes to mind is, 'he who is forgiven little, loves little.' I think my approach will be to try to carve out that personal prayer time by any means possible. Then we'll see what the storms of life will help me to see. Perhaps the oppression that has been in my life and my family's will be dissipated. Of course, God allowed a messenger from Satan to afflict Paul. Perhaps the answer lies within the trials and tribulations we have. We just have to depend and trust in God at all times, but especially when the going gets rough.

- Davies [/FONT]

No where did I claim to be condemned. Perhaps you're thinking of when I said I felt like I was in Romans 7. I did not mean that to say I felt condemned. I'm struggling in the sanctification process. The fact that I'm struggling tells me God is working with me, and I still have much to be transformed.

I do believe that you need to repent, and apologize. I think this contention has sprung up from your misinterpretation, and perhaps my poor wording. I've been trying to be clear, but I do catch myself being lazy with my words from time to time.

Having confided in you with my weaknesses and faults I see now was a mistake. But for the sake of others who are struggling, and to keep people from thinking, 'this guy thinks he's holier than thou,' I post my personal, private messages to you.

Threaten me with posting my private messages...

- Davies

 

[JLB]

Hi Mitspa,

I'll spare you the trouble of posting my private messages. That was Christ like for you to offer.







No where did I claim to be condemned. Perhaps you're thinking of when I said I felt like I was in Romans 7. I did not mean that to say I felt condemned. I'm struggling in the sanctification process. The fact that I'm struggling tells me God is working with me, and I still have much to be transformed.

I do believe that you need to repent, and apologize. I think this contention has sprung up from your misinterpretation, and perhaps my poor wording. I've been trying to be clear, but I do catch myself being lazy with my words from time to time.

Having confided in you with my weaknesses and faults I see now was a mistake. But for the sake of others who are struggling, and to keep people from thinking, 'this guy thinks he's holier than thou,' I post my personal, private messages to you.

Threaten me with posting my private messages...

- Davies

What country are you in?

JLB