WHY DID GOD GIVE THE TEN COMMANDMENTS?

[Mitspa]

Rom 3:19

Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Rom 3:20

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.


Gal 3:10

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Gal 3:11

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Gal 3:12

And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.



Gal 3:22

But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Gal 3:23

But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24

Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

I find it really hard to understand how satan has so blinded much of the "church" It seems so few understand what is so clear?

They draw near with their mouth, but their heart is far from Me, saith The Lord!

They have not heard the law, nor have they heard Christ!
They claim His Name, yet they deny His Work and His Glory!

 

[savedbygrace57]

The Ten Commandments was given to bring you to a place in your life where you would bow down and cease from your own efforts and recognize you need a Saviour.

Thats True, but in addition to that, It was given so that Christ would come and Magnify it the way it was suppose to be by His Perfect Obedience unto it for all those He lived and died in behalf of, so they all will be given Faith to realize that !

 

[Davies]

Good evening,

The Christian's Relationship to the Law

" And so when a man becomes a believer, he has come of age, and the schoolmaster's rule is over, he is no longer under his former tutors and governors, for his time of liberty appointed by the Father is come, He is not under the pedagogy of the Law any longer, for Christ's work has set Him entirely free therefrom. Certainly, a man sees the office of the Law as pedagogue ended when he ascertains that Christ has fulfilled it, I read the Ten Commandments and say, "These thundered at me and I trembled at them, but Christ has kept them, kept them for me, He was my representative in every act of His obedient life and death, and before God, it is as if I had kept the Law, and I stand accepted in the Beloved, When Jesus Christ is seen of God, God sees His people in Him, and they are justified through His righteousness, because they have faith in Him. "He that believeth in Him is not condemned." Oh, is it not a thousand mercies in one that the grand old cannons of the Law are no longer turned against us? Christ has either spiked them or else turned them on our enemies by fulfilling the Law so that they are on our side instead of against us." - Charles Spurgeon

What I like about Spurgeon's thoughts, here, is that we are viewed as if we lived Jesus' life. Jesus' account was exchanged with our account, and we are adopted into the family of God. The Law is a pedagogue. I had to look the word up, but it means teacher.

The other thing stated that I liked was the Law is no longer against us. We can definitely conclude that sin is never condoned, but the person in Christ is never condemned. I think Satan tempts us to think otherwise.

- Davies

 

[JLB]

Good evening,

The Christian's Relationship to the Law

" And so when a man becomes a believer, he has come of age, and the schoolmaster's rule is over, he is no longer under his former tutors and governors, for his time of liberty appointed by the Father is come, He is not under the pedagogy of the Law any longer, for Christ's work has set Him entirely free therefrom. Certainly, a man sees the office of the Law as pedagogue ended when he ascertains that Christ has fulfilled it, I read the Ten Commandments and say, "These thundered at me and I trembled at them, but Christ has kept them, kept them for me, He was my representative in every act of His obedient life and death, and before God, it is as if I had kept the Law, and I stand accepted in the Beloved, When Jesus Christ is seen of God, God sees His people in Him, and they are justified through His righteousness, because they have faith in Him. "He that believeth in Him is not condemned." Oh, is it not a thousand mercies in one that the grand old cannons of the Law are no longer turned against us? Christ has either spiked them or else turned them on our enemies by fulfilling the Law so that they are on our side instead of against us." - Charles Spurgeon

What I like about Spurgeon's thoughts, here, is that we are viewed as if we lived Jesus' life. Jesus' account was exchanged with our account, and we are adopted into the family of God. The Law is a pedagogue. I had to look the word up, but it means teacher.

The other thing stated that I liked was the Law is no longer against us. We can definitely conclude that sin is never condoned, but the person in Christ is never condemned. I think Satan tempts us to think otherwise.

- Davies

Thanks Davies! Well worded.

A quote from King Solomon -

It is good that you grasp one thing and not let go of the other, for the one who fears God comes forth with both of them.



JLB

 

[Mitspa]

Good evening,

The Christian's Relationship to the Law

" And so when a man becomes a believer, he has come of age, and the schoolmaster's rule is over, he is no longer under his former tutors and governors, for his time of liberty appointed by the Father is come, He is not under the pedagogy of the Law any longer, for Christ's work has set Him entirely free therefrom. Certainly, a man sees the office of the Law as pedagogue ended when he ascertains that Christ has fulfilled it, I read the Ten Commandments and say, "These thundered at me and I trembled at them, but Christ has kept them, kept them for me, He was my representative in every act of His obedient life and death, and before God, it is as if I had kept the Law, and I stand accepted in the Beloved, When Jesus Christ is seen of God, God sees His people in Him, and they are justified through His righteousness, because they have faith in Him. "He that believeth in Him is not condemned." Oh, is it not a thousand mercies in one that the grand old cannons of the Law are no longer turned against us? Christ has either spiked them or else turned them on our enemies by fulfilling the Law so that they are on our side instead of against us." - Charles Spurgeon

What I like about Spurgeon's thoughts, here, is that we are viewed as if we lived Jesus' life. Jesus' account was exchanged with our account, and we are adopted into the family of God. The Law is a pedagogue. I had to look the word up, but it means teacher.

The other thing stated that I liked was the Law is no longer against us. We can definitely conclude that sin is never condoned, but the person in Christ is never condemned. I think Satan tempts us to think otherwise.

- Davies

We have no clue by our natural mind the spiritual meaning of the commandment! So its not lawful for a carnal man to use the law! Only those who have been taught the Royal Law can lawfully use the law of moses, for its purpose! It is spiritual only a spiritual man can lawfully use it!

None of you who claim to uphold the moral element of the law, have ever kept even the sabbath!

like the pharisee, who thinks himself to know the law? really they were its greastest transgressors!

The commandment is Holy and Just! we as men are unable nor is it lawful for us to take up Holy Things, with carnal minds and hands!

 

[savedbygrace57]

davies

for Christ's work has set Him entirely free therefrom. Certainly, a man sees the
office of the Law as pedagogue ended when he ascertains that Christ has
fulfilled it,

Yes, and a True Believer lives in the faith of this Truth the rest of their lives. For Christ has fulfilled it for the believer. The only thing the Law does now isto be a guide for right and wrong conduct.

But all for whom Christ keep it by the faith of Jesus Christ, meaning , realizing that Christ hath kept it for me, and God is well pleased with me because of that ! Because of Christ's Work and keeping it in my place ! Rev 14:12

12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

 

[Mitspa]

davies



Yes, and a True Believer lives in the faith of this Truth the rest of their lives. For Christ has fulfilled it for the believer. The only thing the Law does now isto be a guide for right and wrong conduct.

But all for whom Christ keep it by the faith of Jesus Christ, meaning , realizing that Christ hath kept it for me, and God is well pleased with me because of that ! Because of Christ's Work and keeping it in my place ! Rev 14:12

12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

We are to walk in the Spirit! not look at the 10 commandments as a nice suggestion!

We behold Christ! and He fulfills all righteousness through us by the Spirit!

We dont walk as carnal men, in the flesh !
We must be born-again, and walk in the newness of the Spirit!

All else is just religious nonsense!

 

[smaller]

We are to walk in the Spirit! not look at the 10 commandments as a nice suggestion!

We behold Christ! and He fulfills all righteousness through us by the Spirit!

We dont walk as carnal men, in the flesh !
We must be born-again, and walk in the newness of the Spirit!

All else is just religious nonsense!

Paul had no issues whatsoever with believers who worshipped on a certain day in accordance with the LAW or didn't eat pork as matter of their own conscience, thinking that they were or were not 'legal' requirements.

No one is required to 'sin' against the dictates of their conscience.

If the Law says do not murder or steal and we do not do so as a matter of Law or of conscience and see also those being 'legal' matters there are no critical issues with those actions to the believers denigrations.

Why the press to cast down the Law when Paul concludes the exact opposite is again not a requirement.

Those who love their neighbors as themselves are fulfilling the LAW in themselves with every spiritual intention of same. And it is the SAME LAW that also proves beyond all doubt that 'all' are sinners.

There is a principle in the text that LIGHT does shine from darkness, and the LAW shows this to be a fact. It does NOT have to be a 'one way or the other' deal.

Both positions are SIMULTANEOUSLY TRUE. There are SINNERS who are also LEGALLY OBEDIENT to the spiritual intentions of the Law.

The Law itself is not an easy matter to come into dealings with. There is zero doubt that it aggravates and arouses the workings of sin, in part to make 'all' who are at least honest within themselves to know that SIN is a present and working fact in this regards. Anyone with a 'conscience' knows this as well, even without the Law.

There is no uncertainty that the Law is spiritual. There are however a lot of phony caricatures of the Law that are held up 'as' the Law. I might debate that the law is NOT about Saturday Sabbath or NOT eating pork, but if someone fulfilled the spiritual intentions of the law by loving their neighbors as themselves and also chose to do the others, (which is most unlikely as most who are legal in this way are NOT legal in spiritual intentions) there would be no issues with them following those conscience dictates.

Paul openly 'followed the Law' whenever it suited him to do so. He had Timothy circumcised and adhered to a certain Jewish ritual to prove to Jews he was still legal. Paul saw the same principles and taught them in this way.

The notion and promotion that there is a requirement for christians to cast aside the Law is simply not true when the fulfillment of same is presented in Romans 13:8-10 and in other places in the N.T.

What is very bizarre, even quite weird, is listening to you whine about the Law and then make these kinds of statements:

I do not steal-

I do not covet-

I dont not look upon anothers wife-

I do not take advantage or lust for young woman -

However you derived your 'compliance' those are in fact LEGAL matters.

Any believer who understands that the SIN they have as a fact and carry as a fact is and remains condemned under the LAW and also by The Spirit of Christ in them loves their neighbors as themselves will know the Law in a more intimate way if they know that BOTH of these matters are 'simultaneously' true.

I happen to be much pickier about the law, knowing that the 'mere thought' of stealing or murder or any other thought of lawlessness is in fact SIN showing it's ugly head to be a continuing fact within me. That does NOT stop the Spirit of Christ in me from loving my neighbors as myself.

And if I would be taken PREY by the workings of SIN into lawlessness, then there is a PRICE to be paid in this present life.

Galatians 6:7
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

We 'all' reap DEATH sooner or later because of the presence of sin. There is no use whistling past the graveyard on this fact that the Law shows and proves. A believer has less interest in being 'gamed and pawned' by that working.

s

 

[JLB]

Paul had no issues whatsoever with believers who worshipped on a certain day in accordance with the LAW or didn't eat pork as matter of their own conscience, thinking that they were or were not 'legal' requirements.

No one is required to 'sin' against the dictates of their conscience.

If the Law says do not murder or steal and we do not do so as a matter of Law or of conscience and see also those being 'legal' matters there are no critical issues with those actions to the believers denigrations.

Why the press to cast down the Law when Paul concludes the exact opposite is again not a requirement.

Those who love their neighbors as themselves are fulfilling the LAW in themselves with every spiritual intention of same. And it is the SAME LAW that also proves beyond all doubt that 'all' are sinners.

There is a principle in the text that LIGHT does shine from darkness, and the LAW shows this to be a fact. It does NOT have to be a 'one way or the other' deal.

Both positions are SIMULTANEOUSLY TRUE. There are SINNERS who are also LEGALLY OBEDIENT to the spiritual intentions of the Law.

The Law itself is not an easy matter to come into dealings with. There is zero doubt that it aggravates and arouses the workings of sin, in part to make 'all' who are at least honest within themselves to know that SIN is a present and working fact in this regards. Anyone with a 'conscience' knows this as well, even without the Law.

There is no uncertainty that the Law is spiritual. There are however a lot of phony caricatures of the Law that are held up 'as' the Law. I might debate that the law is NOT about Saturday Sabbath or NOT eating pork, but if someone fulfilled the spiritual intentions of the law by loving their neighbors as themselves and also chose to do the others, (which is most unlikely as most who are legal in this way are NOT legal in spiritual intentions) there would be no issues with them following those conscience dictates.

Paul openly 'followed the Law' whenever it suited him to do so. He had Timothy circumcised and adhered to a certain Jewish ritual to prove to Jews he was still legal. Paul saw the same principles and taught them in this way.

The notion and promotion that there is a requirement for christians to cast aside the Law is simply not true when the fulfillment of same is presented in Romans 13:8-10 and in other places in the N.T.

What is very bizarre, even quite weird, is listening to you whine about the Law and then make these kinds of statements:



However you derived your 'compliance' those are in fact LEGAL matters.

Any believer who understands that the SIN they have as a fact and carry as a fact is and remains condemned under the LAW and also by The Spirit of Christ in them loves their neighbors as themselves will know the Law in a more intimate way if they know that BOTH of these matters are 'simultaneously' true.

I happen to be much pickier about the law, knowing that the 'mere thought' of stealing or murder or any other thought of lawlessness is in fact SIN showing it's ugly head to be a continuing fact within me. That does NOT stop the Spirit of Christ in me from loving my neighbors as myself.

And if I would be taken PREY by the workings of SIN into lawlessness, then there is a PRICE to be paid in this present life.

Galatians 6:7
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

We 'all' reap DEATH sooner or later because of the presence of sin. There is no use whistling past the graveyard on this fact that the Law shows and proves. A believer has less interest in being 'gamed and pawned' by that working.

s

Both positions are SIMULTANEOUSLY TRUE. There are SINNERS who are also LEGALLY OBEDIENT to the spiritual intentions of the Law.

Walking in the "balance" of Grace and Truth is certainly what we should all be striving for.

The word says it this way -

Not looking to the left or the right...

Left = Lawlessness
Right = Legalism

Walking down the middle of the Paths of Righteousness requires that we be "led", that's why the scripture says He leads us in the paths of righteousness, for we do not know the way!

King Solomon says it this way -

It is good that you grasp one thing and not let go of the other, for the one who fears God comes forth with both of them. Ecclesiastes 7:18 NAS

As many as are led by The spirit of God, these are the sons of God!


JLB

 

[smaller]

Walking in the "balance" of Grace and Truth is certainly what we should all be striving for.

The word says it this way -

Not looking to the left or the right...

Left = Lawlessness
Right = Legalism

Walking down the middle of the Paths of Righteousness requires that we be "led", that's why the scripture says He leads us in the paths of righteousness, for we do not know the way!

Indeed. I might for example see that same 'allegory' in Israel passing through the Red Sea. It is a similar fashion in how we pass between THE WORDS of God, veering neither direction. We can not veer into claims that we are 'all and entirely' only 'righteousness' as the presence of indwelling sin disallows that to be 'an honest' conclusion.

Neither can we walk into the condemnation that the text brings because we are led by faith to adhere to our God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

And we also 'understand' that the 'enemy' pursues us through those same waters, which will be to their detriment. Moses, of his own fleshly power killed a single Egyptian and buried him in the sand. God had a much greater destruction in mind. The destruction of 'all' of our enemies. This too is a matter of allegory.

King Solomon says it this way -

It is good that you grasp one thing and not let go of the other, for the one who fears God comes forth with both of them. Ecclesiastes 7:18 NAS

As many as are led by The spirit of God, these are the sons of God!

JLB

I'd like to think there is not as much difference between ourselves on any of these matters if we are simply honest about these matters.

Am I legally obedient? Never. The presence of indwelling sin has entirely eliminated that option for me as a matter of internal honesty.

Am I then entirely under Grace? Again, no. The presence of indwelling sin and it's 'internally' generated evil thoughts are NEVER under Grace.

Therein the Waters of Gods Words are DIVIDED for us to walk through. And I see it quite gloriously, to steer the course in HOPE.

s

 

[Mitspa]

OK
My friend you are just wrong!

2Co 5:21


For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Rom 8:3

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:


You are missing the work of the Cross! He took all the sin of the "flesh" and it was judged in His Body!

Remember the bronze serpent? that was a picture of "sin in the flesh" being judged in His Body!

Now we who believe in His blood can not be condemned for the sin in our flesh! rejoice and come alive to God by the "spirit"

Do not be deceived!
every one that attempts to justify themselves by the law, is under the curse of the law! You have given satan a legal right to bring curses into your life!

Why are you sick and weak? why do worry and have not the blessings of God? Its because you are under the curse of the law! turn to Christ and He will save you!

 

[smaller]

Do not be deceived!
every one that attempts to justify themselves by the law, is under the curse of the law!

You keep holding up that shill (false spin) of the Law claiming that is what other believers see therein when exactly zero here have presented justification 'under law.'

That is not 'all' that is in the Law nor is your limited sight claim the entirety of sights.

What remains rather weird is your own claims of legal obedience out of one side of your mouth while deriding same out of the other side of your mouth, as if that is supposed to make some kind of sense?

You have given satan a legal right to bring curses into your life!

The condemnation of the Law remains FULLY upon all indwelling sin and evil present within mankind, period. There is no dodging this conclusion of LAW as futile as you may attempt such efforts.

Grace has graced zero indwelling sin and evil present and every last one of us factually has this condition.

Claims of sinless perfection are currently unavailable, particularly if one is 'in truth' and not deceiving themselves.

Why are you sick and weak? why do worry and have not the blessings of God? Its because you are under the curse of the law! turn to Christ and He will save you!

The Law is meant both to kill and to curse every working of sin and evil in whomever it is found.

The Spiritual reconnoitering of that SAME LAW will bring one to REIGN over that working. But that does not 'eliminate' the fact.

You keep trying to play this as a one or the other deal when it's not. And you continue to see these matters only in some bizarre one sided slant.

I have no issues with the Law being against indwelling sin and evil present, nor would any believer with any wits be adverse to the Law and themselves being against those matters either.

The Law brings us 'awareness' of these matters personally and The Spirit of Christ DIVIDES us from that working IN LOVE to our neighbors.

You may certainly trumpet your claims of sinless legalness in and by faith, but that is not 'all' that any of us factually consist of. That is, if we are brought forth in honesty.

Honesty can arrive at a more accurate conclusion and be both IN CONFLICT and NOT in CONFLICT with the Law. That's partly why Paul is difficult to understand.

In Spiritual fulfillment, a believer is LEGAL under LAW. In works of evil, even the mere THOUGHT of same, none of us are legal.

Both of these 'workings' transpire within believers. That is, if one is honest about what goes on 'inside' of themselves.

s

 

[John 8:32]

Do not be deceived!
every one that attempts to justify themselves by the law, is under the curse of the law! You have given satan a legal right to bring curses into your life!

Why are you sick and weak? why do worry and have not the blessings of God? Its because you are under the curse of the law! turn to Christ and He will save you!

Just out of curiosity Mitspa, where did the law come from? Who authored it and who gave it?

 

[Davies]

davies

Yes, and a True Believer lives in the faith of this Truth the rest of their lives. For Christ has fulfilled it for the believer. The only thing the Law does now isto be a guide for right and wrong conduct.

But all for whom Christ keep it by the faith of Jesus Christ, meaning , realizing that Christ hath kept it for me, and God is well pleased with me because of that ! Because of Christ's Work and keeping it in my place ! Rev 14:12

12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Hi savedbygrace57, Mitspa,

Here we see a great struggle: to walk in the Spirit, and not feel condemned when a person sins. I think when a person is initially saved, this trust in having been forgiven is such a powerful emotion, a person may feel different for months. But then comes that time when love has lost its luster, and a person tends to fall back in his old ways. When the joy of having been given the righteousness of Jesus makes our 'righteous' efforts look like dung, then I think we can be steady in our faith in Jesus. There is a lot of conviction of sin a person still has to go through. I agree with you the Law is a guide. We in fact can use the law to bring conviction, but to use it lawfully, we wouldn't use the law to condemn. Here is an example of Paul, who is no different than us, using the law.

Romans 2:21-23

New King James Version (NKJV)

21 You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal? 22 You who say, “Do not commit adultery,” do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law?


No one hear teaches that we should steal, or commit adultery, but do we do these things and dishonor God? The Law of God should be a reminder to us of what Jesus has done. The Law of God puts a perfect shine on the righteousness of Jesus making it precious in our site, and no doubt in the Father's site as well. Jesus' righteousness saves the soul and glorifies God at the same time.

- Davies

 

[John 8:32]

Hi savedbygrace57, Mitspa,

Here we see a great struggle: to walk in the Spirit, and not feel condemned when a person sins. I think when a person is initially saved, this trust in having been forgiven is such a powerful emotion, a person may feel different for months. But then comes that time when love has lost its luster, and a person tends to fall back in his old ways. When the joy of having been given the righteousness of Jesus makes our 'righteous' efforts look like dung, then I think we can be steady in our faith in Jesus. There is a lot of conviction of sin a person still has to go through. I agree with you the Law is a guide. We in fact can use the law to bring conviction, but to use it lawfully, we wouldn't use the law to condemn. Here is an example of Paul, who is no different than us, using the law.

Romans 2:21-23

New King James Version (NKJV)

21 You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal? 22 You who say, “Do not commit adultery,” do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law?


No one hear teaches that we should steal, or commit adultery, but do we do these things and dishonor God? The Law of God should be a reminder to us of what Jesus has done. The Law of God puts a perfect shine on the righteousness of Jesus making it precious in our site, and no doubt in the Father's site as well. Jesus' righteousness saves the soul and glorifies God at the same time.

- Davies

And this thread is the proof of the need for the law. With all the wrangling over the law, the wisdom of God to inspire Paul to say...

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

becomes evident. Even with this, there is no agreement here about the law and Paul explains what the purpose of and need for the law is...

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

The law tells us what sin is, what we are to repent of and what we are to avoid...

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

The law does not save us, but it is a lamp to our feet...

Psa 119:105 NUN. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

that shows us the way of righteousness verses the way of sin...

Psa 119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.

Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Psa 19:8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
Psa 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
Psa 19:10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
Psa 19:11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.

 

[savedbygrace57]

So everyone Christ died for and who by the Power of the Spirit is brought to believe in Him, All these Keep the Commandments of God.

Rev 14:12

12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

 

[Mitspa]

And this thread is the proof of the need for the law. With all the wrangling over the law, the wisdom of God to inspire Paul to say...

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

becomes evident. Even with this, there is no agreement here about the law and Paul explains what the purpose of and need for the law is...

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

The law tells us what sin is, what we are to repent of and what we are to avoid...

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

The law does not save us, but it is a lamp to our feet...

Psa 119:105 NUN. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

that shows us the way of righteousness verses the way of sin...

Psa 119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.

Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Psa 19:8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
Psa 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
Psa 19:10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
Psa 19:11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.

Its very odd that you leave out parts of scripture and the next verses in 1 John that prove your doctrines are false! Why do you do that? and what part of every jot and tittle is fulfilled?

Of course the OLD testament will point to the law!
You seem to count the blood and life of Christ as having very little value? why is that?

Also I do not associate myself our what I teach, with those of SBG57!

I teach the fulfillment of the will of God, by the spirit, and reject the flesh in all its religious forms.

 

[Mitspa]

Hi savedbygrace57, Mitspa,

Here we see a great struggle: to walk in the Spirit, and not feel condemned when a person sins. I think when a person is initially saved, this trust in having been forgiven is such a powerful emotion, a person may feel different for months. But then comes that time when love has lost its luster, and a person tends to fall back in his old ways. When the joy of having been given the righteousness of Jesus makes our 'righteous' efforts look like dung, then I think we can be steady in our faith in Jesus. There is a lot of conviction of sin a person still has to go through. I agree with you the Law is a guide. We in fact can use the law to bring conviction, but to use it lawfully, we wouldn't use the law to condemn. Here is an example of Paul, who is no different than us, using the law.

Romans 2:21-23

New King James Version (NKJV)

21 You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal? 22 You who say, “Do not commit adultery,†do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law?


No one hear teaches that we should steal, or commit adultery, but do we do these things and dishonor God? The Law of God should be a reminder to us of what Jesus has done. The Law of God puts a perfect shine on the righteousness of Jesus making it precious in our site, and no doubt in the Father's site as well. Jesus' righteousness saves the soul and glorifies God at the same time.

- Davies

The point Paul is making in those scriptures, if you will read the whole point he makes? and not just part !

That NONE KEEP THE LAW! you who preach the law, do you break the law? THE ANSWER IS YES! YOU DO!

you cant just keep the parts you think your good at, and then judge others according to what you cannot keep!
Then Paul says because you preach the law, and then you break what you preach! God is blaspemed!

The same thing today?
you guys preach the law and act holy, the sinners see your hypocricy! Everybody knows that you who post the 10 commandments, do not or can not keep them yourself! Thats what Jesus hated! hypocricy!

I have make this point over and over on this thread? the commandment is Holy and just, but all men are carnal until they have been renewed into Christ, by the Spirit!

It is not lawful for a carnal man to use the law!

First go and be taught by Christ, and then He will teach you the spiritual meaning of the Commandment! There is no other way!

 

[smaller]

First go and be taught by Christ, and then He will teach you the spiritual meaning of the Commandment! There is no other way!

Uh, yeah, that's been the topic for several hundred posts now.

 

[Davies]

The point Paul is making in those scriptures, if you will read the whole point he makes? and not just part !

That NONE KEEP THE LAW! you who preach the law, do you break the law? THE ANSWER IS YES! YOU DO!

I'm with you all the way Mitspa. No one is disagreeing that I can see. Paul would be the first one to admit that he wasn't able to keep the law.

you cant just keep the parts you think your good at, and then judge others according to what you cannot keep!
Then Paul says because you preach the law, and then you break what you preach! God is blaspemed!

We are batting a thousand so far. You don't have to use capitol letters either. We are in perfect agreement.

The same thing today?
you guys preach the law and act holy, the sinners see your hypocricy! Everybody knows that you who post the 10 commandments, do not or can not keep them yourself! Thats what Jesus hated! hypocricy!

Now, you lost me. No one is claiming they keep the law perfectly. What I'm saying is that when we fail, we can start to see the distance God went in keeping the law for us, and then impute His righteousness to our account. This is what is hard for people to believe. Now, because Jesus has given me His righteousness, I should be motivated to serve Him by walking in the Spirit obeying the very Law I previously violated. That doesn't mean that I don't fail anymore, it means that when I fail, the Law doesn't condemn me anymore. I'm no longer under the Law, but I learn under the pedagogue of the Holy Spirit now. We should find ourselves growing in the Spirit and doing things that are not in conflict with the Law, as imperfect as we are.

I just don't understand where you find hypocrisy in that. Paul used the Law lawfully, and we should use it in the same manner.

It is not lawful for a carnal man to use the law!

Then Paul shouldn't have used the Law. As born again Christians, we are no different than Paul.

First go and be taught by Christ, and then He will teach you the spiritual meaning of the Commandment! There is no other way!

I think everyone here has a good understanding of the Law. I really don't understand why you think we are looking to the Law to be justified. smaller has pointed out to you that you have been obeying the Law, presumably by bearing fruit of the Spirit, you don't commit adultery, or steal, and so on...

Where am I or we going wrong? You referred to the Royal Law before, how is that inconsistent with the Ten Commandments?

- Davies