WHY DID GOD GIVE THE TEN COMMANDMENTS?

[Mitspa]

I'm with you all the way Mitspa. No one is disagreeing that I can see. Paul would be the first one to admit that he wasn't able to keep the law.

We are batting a thousand so far. You don't have to use capitol letters either. We are in perfect agreement.

Now, you lost me. No one is claiming they keep the law perfectly. What I'm saying is that when we fail, we can start to see the distance God went in keeping the law for us, and then impute His righteousness to our account. This is what is hard for people to believe. Now, because Jesus has given me His righteousness, I should be motivated to serve Him by walking in the Spirit obeying the very Law I previously violated. That doesn't mean that I don't fail anymore, it means that when I fail, the Law doesn't condemn me anymore. I'm no longer under the Law, but I learn under the pedagogue of the Holy Spirit now. We should find ourselves growing in the Spirit and doing things that are not in conflict with the Law, as imperfect as we are.

I just don't understand where you find hypocrisy in that. Paul used the Law lawfully, and we should use it in the same manner.

Then Paul shouldn't have used the Law. As born again Christians, we are no different than Paul.

I think everyone here has a good understanding of the Law. I really don't understand why you think we are looking to the Law to be justified. smaller has pointed out to you that you have been obeying the Law, presumably by bearing fruit of the Spirit, you don't commit adultery, or steal, and so on...

Where am I or we going wrong? You referred to the Royal Law before, how is that inconsistent with the Ten Commandments?

- Davies

If you not understand the commandment, how can you keep it?
Like the pharisee, they thought they knew the meaning of the commandment, but they were its worst trangressors!

Same today, none of you who pretend to be upholding the law, have a clue how to fulfill it! because you carnal and unholy!

You dont even understand the sabbath! yet you think God is please with you? No! Not because you attempt to keep the law! He is pleased when we honor His Beloved Son!

"THIS IS MY BELOVED SON, HEAR HIM"

as far as Paul teaching the law? The man was stoned to death and beaten over and over because he said the very things I am saying! After all he suffered for our sake, what a great lie against him and his message!

The message I have I learned, from Paul, now if I preach law , I preach the law of Christ and the law of the Spirit!

 

[Mitspa]

John 5:45 Jesue said; do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuses you, Moses in whom YE TRUST.

Jesus said, come unto me, ALL YOU WHO LABOR and are heavy laden, AND I WILL GIVE YOU REST?

JESUS IS THE SABBATH REST!

Take my yoke upon you, for yoke is easy and My burden is light!
For I am meek and lowly of heart!

The viel was torn? His flesh! That we might enter into the cleft of the Rock!

In Him there is no sin!

Renounce your carnal minds! repent of the evil and dead works of the flesh!

Become a fool at His Cross! become weak! become wretched!

And God will give Grace to the humble!

 

[John 8:32]

Its very odd that you leave out parts of scripture and the next verses in 1 John that prove your doctrines are false! Why do you do that? and what part of every jot and tittle is fulfilled?

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

Wonder what translation you are reading, the KJV says Christ took our sins away, not the law. The defines sin...

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Christ paid the penalty for sin. I think that when you read the letters S I N you somehow read that as L A W.

Of course the OLD testament will point to the law!
You seem to count the blood and life of Christ as having very little value? why is that?

Actually, I account the blood of Christ as very much, whne I look at the commands of God and see how far short I fall each day and how much I need the sacrifice of Crhist each day, it shows me how much I need a Savior.

Now on the otherhand, if the law is done away, as you claim, what do I need saved from? Sin? If there is no law, there is no sin...

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Paul seems to recognize this also...

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

So, it seems to me that you are the one who values the death of Christ very little.

Also I do not associate myself our what I teach, with those of SBG57!

You have me at an advantage here for I do not know what SBG57 is, can you explain?

I teach the fulfillment of the will of God, by the spirit, and reject the flesh in all its religious forms.

By the way, can you tell me what this means...

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

How did Christ walk? He kept the commandments and taught others to do so.

1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

All this written by the Apostle of Love, John.

 

[John 8:32]

John 5:45 Jesue said; do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuses you, Moses in whom YE TRUST.

Jesus said, come unto me, ALL YOU WHO LABOR and are heavy laden, AND I WILL GIVE YOU REST?

JESUS IS THE SABBATH REST!

Take my yoke upon you, for yoke is easy and My burden is light!
For I am meek and lowly of heart!

The viel was torn? His flesh! That we might enter into the cleft of the Rock!

In Him there is no sin!

Renounce your carnal minds! repent of the evil and dead works of the flesh!

Such as not stealing, not murdering, not lying, not committing adultery? You want me to repent of keeping those laws? How do I do that? Become an murdering thief that lies and commits adultery?

 

[smaller]

Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

 

[John 8:32]

Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Those that are given the right to the tree of life (eternal life) do what? They keep the Commandments.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The subject here is the place of safety, but the point is that the church that Satan goes after keeps the commandments.

 

[smaller]

Those that are given the right to the tree of life (eternal life) do what? They keep the Commandments.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The subject here is the place of safety, but the point is that the church that Satan goes after keeps the commandments.

We might make and take 'many' observations about 'commandments.'

I cited Rev. 22 only to show continuing commandments, and well after the 'infamous' events therein if one is viewing them on some kind of a TIME LINE.

9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

It will remain only the 'strangers' to God that cast aside HIS WORDS.

s

 

[Mitspa]

Those that are given the right to the tree of life (eternal life) do what? They keep the Commandments.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The subject here is the place of safety, but the point is that the church that Satan goes after keeps the commandments.

you have a odd way of ignoring clear scripture? That no man can keep the Commandments by the flesh, is evident!

Only those who walk in the Spirit and in the love of Christ can keep the righteous requirments of the law!

So you think you have kept the commandments of God?

John tells us what the commandments of the Father are in 1John? The believe on His Son and love as He gave commandment! You do know that only in and by Christ can we keep any part of the law?

By the way, which part of the law are we to keep? what jot and tittle did Christ keep, and what part are you trying to establish as needed to be kept by believers?

For they being ignorant of Gods righteousness, and going about to establish their own, have not submitted to the righteousness of God!

 

[smaller]

you have a odd way of ignoring clear scripture? That no man can keep the Commandments by the flesh, is evident!

Only those who walk in the Spirit and in the love of Christ can keep the righteous requirments of the law!

So you think you have kept the commandments of God?

John tells us what the commandments of the Father are in 1John? The believe on His Son and love as He gave commandment! You do know that only in and by Christ can we keep any part of the law?

By the way, which part of the law are we to keep? what jot and tittle did Christ keep, and what part are you trying to establish as needed to be kept by believers?

Somebody is seriously 'all over the map' as they say.

 

[Davies]

If you not understand the commandment, how can you keep it?
Like the pharisee, they thought they knew the meaning of the commandment, but they were its worst trangressors!

Same today, none of you who pretend to be upholding the law, have a clue how to fulfill it! because you carnal and unholy!

You dont even understand the sabbath! yet you think God is please with you? No! Not because you attempt to keep the law! He is pleased when we honor His Beloved Son!

"THIS IS MY BELOVED SON, HEAR HIM"

as far as Paul teaching the law? The man was stoned to death and beaten over and over because he said the very things I am saying! After all he suffered for our sake, what a great lie against him and his message!

The message I have I learned, from Paul, now if I preach law , I preach the law of Christ and the law of the Spirit!

Good morning Mitspa,

From my perception, I think you're talking past me. I think this conversation would be more constructive if you could respond to my questions?

Thanks,

- Davies

 

[John 8:32]

you have a odd way of ignoring clear scripture? That no man can keep the Commandments by the flesh, is evident!

Only those who walk in the Spirit and in the love of Christ can keep the righteous requirments of the law!

So you think you have kept the commandments of God?

John tells us what the commandments of the Father are in 1John? The believe on His Son and love as He gave commandment! You do know that only in and by Christ can we keep any part of the law?

By the way, which part of the law are we to keep? what jot and tittle did Christ keep, and what part are you trying to establish as needed to be kept by believers?

Christ kept all of them, else if He broke the law, He was not the perfect sacrifice. What part of this clear statement do you disagree with?

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

For they being ignorant of Gods righteousness, and going about to establish their own, have not submitted to the righteousness of God!

Do you think those who have the Spirit of God are unable to keep the Commandments? The New Covenant is having the Law written in our hearts and minds. The very way we think and feel is in accord with and harmony with the Commandments...
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

A direct quote from...

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

 

[John 8:32]

you have a odd way of ignoring clear scripture? That no man can keep the Commandments by the flesh, is evident!

Only those who walk in the Spirit and in the love of Christ can keep the righteous requirments of the law!

So you think you have kept the commandments of God?

John tells us what the commandments of the Father are in 1John? The believe on His Son and love as He gave commandment! You do know that only in and by Christ can we keep any part of the law?

By the way, which part of the law are we to keep? what jot and tittle did Christ keep, and what part are you trying to establish as needed to be kept by believers?

For they being ignorant of Gods righteousness, and going about to establish their own, have not submitted to the righteousness of God!

So keeping the Commandments is a bad thing? What part of not killing angers God? do adulterers have a special place in God's heart as His children? Lying is a very acceptable and approved method of conducting ourselves?

The NKJV puts this into perspcetive...

Mat 13:41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,
Mat 13:42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. - NKJV

1 John 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. - NKJV

So, the law is a terrible thing and done away with? Not quite. You still have not explained to me this...

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

or this...

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

 

[Mitspa]

So keeping the Commandments is a bad thing? What part of not killing angers God? do adulterers have a special place in God's heart as His children? Lying is a very acceptable and approved method of conducting ourselves?

The NKJV puts this into perspcetive...

Mat 13:41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,
Mat 13:42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. - NKJV

1 John 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. - NKJV

So, the law is a terrible thing and done away with? Not quite. You still have not explained to me this...

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

or this...

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Again you seem to bear false witness!
1 John 3:6 we know that He was manifest to take away our sins, and in Him we have no sin.
whoever abides in Hin cannot sin, whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

Yes the Commandment is Holy and just! but no man can keep it! Therefore you must read the rest of Rom 7 and 8?

I told you that I would discuss the scriptures in an honest way with any honest person? You seem to be unable to be honest and you never seem to be able to handle the Word of Truth, with truth?

Like smaller, I am ready to dismiss you as a retrobate man.

I will read your next post, and if you show no evidence of honest intentions as regards to the scriptures, you will be ignored on this thread, from this point forward!

Now I say, again that no one can take the New Testament and all that is written concerning the law, and think that we who are believers are under law? unless they have been taught false doctrine for many years!

Now if you have been under such teaching, I am willing to go point by honest point with you, to show you the truth!
But you seem unwilling to accept clear and evident scripture that proves beyond doubt that your doctrines are very false and very wrong!

Now I have tried to be patient, and kind to you. but you seem to reject salvation by faith?

So, my hands are clean and the dust is shaken off!

 

[Mitspa]

Rom 13:9

For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10

Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Sorry you are wrong, the law of moses has died with Christ for those who believe, now we are under the "Royal Law"
For the law is "spiritual" it can only be kept by the "spirit" The Spirit gives us the Love of God, we walk in that love.


Rom 10:4

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Gal 6:2

Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

"This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you"

Again the purpose of the Law was to bring us to Christ and to His love By the "spirit"

For those of us who know love, the Royal law makes perfect sense. It gives us liberty to love those who do not deserve love. It frees us to go to the greatest of sinners, and with confidence say, believe on The Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved!
Yes, we have liberty! No set of rules are needed for those who walk in the Love of Christ!

Why do some resist the clear and evident statements of scripture?

Could it be that love has not found a place in the heart? Love as He loves, is not a command they can understand? They must have a carnal commandment, for thier carnal minds to earn salvation by their own works!

It is clear, those who do not love as Christ loved, do not know God!

"Lord did we not do such and such, in your name"?
He will say depart from me, I NEVER KNEW YOU!

 

[smaller]

Like smaller, I am ready to dismiss you as a retrobate man.

So much for the 'Royal Law.'

You claim to follow same, but if someone doesn't cotton up to your slant on the Word, they are quickly cast aside. You know, for actually being honest about having, like Paul, sin indwelling the flesh and evil present in thought form, shown in large part by the Law.

Wonder why the pews are emptying? Because they are filled with 'believers' who can't tell the truth.

Even unbelievers don't care much for people who can't be honest. And I certainly don't cast you aside for your particular slant. If you can't discuss things factually, you can't. There really is nothing you can do about it.

s

 

[Mitspa]

For those of us who know love, the Royal law makes perfect sense. It gives us liberty to love those who do not deserve love. It frees us to go to the greatest of sinners, and with confidence say, believe on The Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved!
Yes, we have liberty! No set of rules are needed for those who walk in the Love of Christ!

Why do some resist the clear and evident statements of scripture?

Could it be that love has not found a place in the heart? Love as He loves, is not a command they can understand? They must have a carnal commandment, for thier carnal minds to earn salvation by their own works!

It is clear, those who do not love as Christ loved, do not know God!

"Lord did we not do such and such, in your name"?
He will say depart from me, I NEVER KNEW YOU!

Nothing profits anything , but faith working by love!

If you give your body to be burned, and do not do it because of love, it profits you nothing!

Being rooted and grounded in love, you may be able to understand!

The reason some of you struggle so much with the scriptures and what I am saying, is because you do not know love!

God is love, and you do not know Him! how can you know the meaning of His Commandments?

You dont!

 

[WIP]

We are beginning to turn things a little too personal. Are we not here to build each other up?

 

[smaller]

Nothing profits anything , but faith working by love!

If you give your body to be burned, and do not do it because of love, it profits you nothing!

Being rooted and grounded in love, you may be able to understand!

The reason some of you struggle so much with the scriptures and what I am saying, is because you do not know love!

God is love, and you do not know Him! how can you know the meaning of His Commandments?

You dont!

What makes you think the COMMANDMENTS are against that?

You've been basically banging your head against a non-existing wall. Decrying the Law on one hand and claiming to follow it on the other hand, as if that is supposed to make any sense whatsover.

Fact is, the Commandments are to be followed by believers exactly as Paul laid out clearly in Romans 13:8-10. Every last little jot and tittle of them. To the finest detail.

And it is no fault of Law that shows us the facts of our SIN. That seems to be the part that you don't personally care for. And the really odd part is, that those who like to be HONEST about this particular matter, you actually condemn, while simultaneously claiming you are following the ROYAL LAW?

How does that work exactly there Mitspa? If a believer desires to stand HONESTLY under the commandments showing us the facts of indwelling sin and evil present as it is shown by Paul himself, by his own mouth for himself, why would you shirk those facts for yourSELF and condemn others who 'accept honestly' those conclusions of honesty that were brought to us courtesy of DIVINE REVELATION?

There is no crime involved to speak honestly of these matters. In fact to most here it would be a crime to NOT speak honestly of these matters.

There are no benefits involved to pulling our own legs over simple scripturally disclosed facts that the Apostles laid even upon themselves.

Does God in Christ love 'sin and evil?'

Uh, actually, no.

Nevertheless we all have those conditions. Some may prefer to overlook those facts. Some may prefer to shed as much LIGHT upon those facts as possible in order to speak honestly rather than dishonestly. This is not 'criminal.' Truth is in fact A FRUIT of THE SPIRIT.

It can seem strange to some that in order to have a 'good conscience' one must speak honestly, even if that means acknowledging that we also 'sometimes' have evil thoughts, which are in fact an 'evil conscience.'

But to say all our thoughts are always and only ever Perfect, that we are sinless, that we never ever have an evil thought or action, ever?

To most here that would be basically DISHONEST.

Even if one could conjure up various doctrinal angles to avoid a factual conclusion it still doesn't make it HONEST.

There are benefits for honesty. It is in fact QUITE PLEASANT to not fall into dishonesty.

If the scripture has concluded ALL under sin, which is certainly the case, then it is an honest conclusion to take that finding as an honest fact and to speak honestly about that conclusion.

s

 

[smaller]

Yes the Commandment is Holy and just! but no man can keep it!

we as believers are to fulfill what those commandments desire.

Perhaps when you decide to quit chasing your tale on this story you could settle down a bit and have a cognizant conversation?

???

 

[Mitspa]

The revelation is, that the 10 commandments do not contain all that there is to the Law.

The Law is -

Do not eat of the tree...

Go to a street called straight...

Go to the house of Cornelius...


The law is what God says, not a list of rules!

Thats why the scripture says -

As many as are led by The Spirit of God, these are the sons of God!

It's about relationship and hearing and obeying The Voice of God!


Thats why Jesus said -

39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. John 5:39-40

God desires relationship, which produces the faith of obedience!

Hebrews 11 is filled with those who walked with God, those who heard His voice and dared to obey.


JLB

JLB where did you go? Dont grow weary in doing good!