Why Do Christians Argue Against Works?

[Hopeful]

They define that as “not accepting a gospel of grace and mercy.”

It is interesting to note that false thinking, i.e. false theology, leads one have to accuse the brethren of not merely disagreeing, but rejecting the whole.

Thanks be to God for grace and mercy.
And repentance, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, rebirth, the gift of the Holy Ghost, and a hundred other things.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Ask Jesus and John the Baptist that question...

Matthew 3:7 (NASB) But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, "You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Matthew 12:34 (NASB) "You brood of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak what is good? For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart.

Matthew 23:33 (NASB) "You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?

Luke 3:7 (NASB) So he (John the Baptist) began saying to the crowds who were going out to be baptized by him, "You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

I am asking you. We know John was full of the Holy Spirit. You are not him.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Thanks be to God for grace and mercy.
And repentance, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, rebirth, the gift of the Holy Ghost, and a hundred other things.

Now only if some would move beyond believing they are full of grace and mercy to really giving grace and mercy…

 

[crossnote]

If the OSAS folks advocated walking in the Spirit instead of in the flesh, didn't sin, or had been made the righteous of God in Him, they might be worth following.

OSAS or non-OSAS, no one is worth following except Jesus Christ.

 

[crossnote]

I am asking you. We know John was full of the Holy Spirit. You are not him.

I know I'm not John or Jesus (I don't have an identity crisis). John's language was stronger than mine, will you say he is not a 'loving' believer?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I know I'm not John or Jesus (I don't have an identity crisis). John's language was stronger than mine, will you say he is not a 'loving' believer?

You are not speaking to the crowd he was speaking to. Can you not tell the difference?

 

[crossnote]

You are not speaking to the crowd he was speaking to. Can you not tell the difference?

Hardly can tell the difference, both groups are religious, and both groups are clueless when it comes to the new birth / new nature.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Hardly can tell the difference, both groups are religious, and both groups are clueless when it comes to the new birth / new nature.

Wow! No wonder you have to ask everyone if they are born again. Jesus said we should (be able) to tell a tree by its fruit. There seems to be some difficulty in distinguishing a tree from a telephone pole.

 

[crossnote]

Wow! No wonder you have to ask everyone if they are born again. Jesus said we should (be able) to tell a tree by its fruit. There seems to be some difficulty in distinguishing a tree from a telephone pole.

Fruit is outward behavior, new birth is a transformation within. Figures I need to explain all this.
iow, tares and wheat.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Fruit is outward behavior, new birth is a transformation within. Figures I need to explain all this.
iow, tares and wheat.

Ah, so according to you, we can conclude that a transformation within has NO change in outward behavior, right?

That explains why you have to ask who is a Christian and why you think there is absolutely no difference between and tares, which is incorrect. I understand that tares turn black. Pretty easy to see the difference with time and observation.

 

[crossnote]

Ah, so according to you, we can conclude that a transformation within has NO change in outward behavior, right?

According to me? I never said that because it doesn’t follow logically. BTW, do you usually enjoy playing ‘Gotcha’? (I would recommend taking up a new game).

 

[Dorothy Mae]

According to me? I never said that because it doesn’t follow logically. BTW, do you usually enjoy playing ‘Gotcha’? (I would recommend taking up a new game).

But it’s your post so it’s according to you. The transformation is inward with no outward change in behavior. Your theology is illogical and inconsistent. Or if you prefer, you don’t agree with the logical outcome of your theology. It’s not a game. It’s very serious.

The truth is completely consistent and much more pleasant. They tried to catch Jesus and couldn’t, That’s because he knew the truth.

 

[D-D-W]

How many commands must one keep until you are saved?

You can keep all of them perfectly from birth to death (a fictional tale to be sure) and still not be saved.

 

[D-D-W]

"Christian-sinner" is an oxymoron.
Quit using that phrase.

If they really believed in Jesus, they would be quaking in their boots instead of justifying wickedness.

Justifying wickedness? You do not know what all of sin is, do you?

There is a LOT more to sin than just willful disobedience. You can sin over and over and over, and not even be aware of it. You can sin by having a bad attitude or negative emotions. You can sin by believing the wrong doctrines. You can sin by not having faith. "Whatever is not from faith is sin." That can lead to an odd situation of "sinned if you do and sinned if you don't."

 

[rogerg]

If the OSAS folks advocated walking in the Spirit instead of in the flesh, didn't sin, or had been made the righteous of God in Him, they might be worth following.

So, are you saying that you do, or you do not put the spiritual authority of your church above the spiritual authority of Bible?

 

[crossnote]

You can keep all of them perfectly from birth to death (a fictional tale to be sure) and still not be saved.

Exactly my point.

 

[crossnote]

But it’s your post so it’s according to you. The transformation is inward with no outward change in behavior. Your theology is illogical and inconsistent.

That’s a very assumptive rendering of what I said. Of course an inward change affects the outward, but not necessarily in ways we think though. I gave a quote from John the Baptist as an example.

Luke 3:7 NKJV
[7] Then he said to the multitudes that came out to be baptized by him, "Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

all you could say was ‘you’re no John the Baptist’. Really? Don’t all regenerate believers have that same Spirit?
Not the same audience?… I sometimes wonder.

 

[D-D-W]

If the OSAS folks advocated walking in the Spirit instead of in the flesh, didn't sin, or had been made the righteous of God in Him, they might be worth following.

Almost all OSAS people I know put a sincere emphasis on walking in the Spirit and obedience.

 

[D-D-W]

Ask Jesus and John the Baptist that question...

Matthew 3:7 (NASB) But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, "You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Matthew 12:34 (NASB) "You brood of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak what is good? For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart.

Matthew 23:33 (NASB) "You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?

Luke 3:7 (NASB) So he (John the Baptist) began saying to the crowds who were going out to be baptized by him, "You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

John the baptizer (Yochanan the immerser) followed that statement with "bring forth fruits of repentance." That is important also.

 

[crossnote]

John the baptizer (Yochanan the immerser) followed that statement with "bring forth fruits of repentance." That is important also.

True, and in my way of understanding the Bible, Paul (Sha'ul), the ex Pharisee said...

"For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."
(Php 2:13)