Why I want to be left behind

[n2thelight]

When Christ says He's not coming until after the trib,can someone please tell me who that verse was written to???

 

[JLB]

When Christ says He's not coming until after the trib,can someone please tell me who that verse was written to???

Disciples!

3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?" Matthew 24:3



17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:17

The Rapture ones will be caught up with the Resurrected ones, as we shall all be together with Him.


This is the Day of the Lord.


Do you believe the Day of the Lord, and the Resurrection of the dead in Christ will happen before the tribulation?


JLB

 

[Deborah13]

Good evening youngster,
I'll bet you understand why I try to ignore certain discussions. I have a rough time when people, just, don't know how to suppress the pride or the urge to demand their own way in spite of any reason. I used to love debating with professors and college grads about the scriptures but I've noticed that as the time for the Trib. and the Rapture nears the LORD is hardening the hearts of many, many, people making intelligent discussion and intelligent debate almost impossible with some people. There is even one member, here, that I periodically take off of ignore but as I watch, he is progressively growing worse and to avoid being drawn in I must ignore him.

I pray, sometimes, that the LORD holds tight to those that are His because Satan is so subtle and such a snake. From reading the scriptures I know this will get much worse but I already hate this. Today, it appears to me that the more education a person has, the more they are affected by this condition.

May God pour out His blessings on all here.

Hi Bill,
Youngster, thanks. Like my grandson, when he was five, informed a teacher reading a story, "You, never should call a lady old." He still says that today, makes me just hug him. I'm glad he is still at the age where he doesn't hugs and kisses. Children grow up way too fast anymore.
When I think about little nine yr. old girls being given HPV virus vaccines, I just cringe.
Right now Jake (g-son) is in the 4th grade. His Christian school class is studying American History and the documents of our country. The public school kids haven't even touched on it. They are studying about being a good citizen of the Government. Like Lexy says, "how to be good sheep, just do and think what they tell you to." That is just so backwards from what our country stands for. They are teaching our kids not to think for themselves.
God bless you and yours. I pray you have a wonderful day today, Bill.

 

[Deborah13]

When Christ says He's not coming until after the trib,can someone please tell me who that verse was written to???

It wasn't written yet to anyone. But it was spoken to the disciples to tell to that generation they were living in.
He refers to the things that had been written by Daniel. Daniel foretells of the coming of the Messiah, His work on the cross, and the coming destruction of Judea, among other things. But the destruction that He spoke of did happen in their generation. And the believers fled to the mountains.

 

[Brother Mike]

The problem with pretribbers is the fact they don't seperate the tribulation of satan from the wrath of God,they are totally two different events

I challenge any pretribber to show me one,just one verse where Christ comes before the tribulation

There have been several post that prove the Lord comes for the church already before tribulation. Revelation is not about what Satan is doing, it's about Jesus and what God does when dealing with a world that rejected him. Satan does much of nothing and fails miserably. The church is not under a disobedient angels foot.

 

[Deborah13]

The thing is Deborah is I tried to connect Joseph's sun, moon and stars. Joseph's 11, Rev 12, 12 stars. You have had to get this from someone else and I would look at it again and compare more exact things.

There are 7 seals, 7 trumpets and 7 vials. Jesus said He comes immediately after the tribulation, the 7th Angel sounds his trumpet to shorten those days that all flesh not perish.

There is a cosmic Event here. Jesus is on the way, show over.

Where does Matt 24 or Mark or Luke say that this coming is a coming where He will touch down on planet earth? God says He came to His people many times in many different ways. If He had not stopped the destruction and death taking place in Judea, "all flesh would have perished." There would have been no Jews left who were in Judea at that time.
Mat 24:14 and this good news of the reign shall be proclaimed in all the world, for a testimony to all the nations; and then shall the end arrive.
Rom 16:26 and now having been made manifest, also, through prophetic writings, according to a command of the age-during God, having been made known to all the nations for obedience of faith--
If the end spoken of in Matt. 24:14 was to come when the good news had been brought to all the nations and Paul says it was, then what was this end being spoken of? It was the end of the Mosaic economy, when Judea was destroyed and when the temple was destroyed and left desolate.

Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
(Isa 13:9-11)

The scripture tells us who this scripture is about.
Isa 13:17 Lo, I am stirring up against them the Medes, Who silver esteem not, And gold--they delight not in it.
Isa 13:19 And Babylon, the beauty of kingdoms, The glory, the excellency of the Chaldeans, Hath been as overthrown by God, With Sodom and with Gomorrah.

"Babylon: Babylon, whose destruction and utter ruin are here predicted, was...... Cyrus took it by diverting the waters of the Euphrates, which ran through the midst, and entering by the channel; and the river being never restored to its proper course, overflowed the whole country, and made it a morass. Darius Hystaspes afterwards depopulated the place, lowered the walls, and demolished the gates; Xerxes destroyed the temples; the building of Seleucia nearly exhausted it of its inhabitants; a king of the Parthians carried a number of them into slavery, and destroyed the most beautiful parts; so that modern travellers describe it as a mass of shapeless ruins, the habitation of wild beasts. Isa_14:4-6, Isa_14:12-15; Jer_51:41; Dan_2:37-38, Dan_4:30"
http://www.biblestudytools.com/concordances/treasury-of-scripture-knowledge/isaiah-13/

The 6th seal is opened, followed by the 7th which brings 1/2 hour of complete silence on the Earth. People of the Nations know what is about to go down.

And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
(Luk 21:25-26)

And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
(Joe 2:30-32)

Again let's look at what Joel says in context this givens us a time frame.
Joe 2:28 And it hath come to pass afterwards, I do pour out My Spirit on all flesh, And prophesied have your sons and your daughters, Your old men do dream dreams, Your young men do see visions.
Joe 2:29 And also on the men-servants, and on the maid-servants, In those days I do pour out My Spirit.
Joe 2:30 And I have given wonders in the heavens, and in the earth, Blood and fire, and columns of smoke.
Act 2:14 and Peter having stood up with the eleven, lifted up his voice and declared to them, `Men, Jews! and all those dwelling in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and harken to my sayings,
Act 2:15 for these are not drunken, as ye take it up, for it is the third hour of the day.
Act 2:16 `But this is that which hath been spoken through the prophet Joel:
Act 2:17 And it shall be in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams;
Joe 2:31 The sun is turned to darkness, and the moon to blood, Before the coming of the day of Jehovah, The great and the fearful.
Peter said these days came when the Holy Spirit was poured out at Pentecost.

And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
(Act 2:19-21)

Correct. Shortly, would Judea would be destroyed. And all those who called on the name of the Lord were saved.

And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
(Rev 6:12-16)

We have received a Kingdom that can't be shaken, but the folks experiencing this event are not us. Two groups here, those that try to hide, knowing who is coming once the moon turns blood read and the sun is put out and the stars just vanish. The other group may still call upon the name of the Lord to be saved. We are not here.

You are saying that the scriptures in Rev match the scriptures in Matt, Mark, and Luke. If that is true then we should obey what Jesus told His followers to do, "flee to the mountains."

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken

:
(Mat 24:29)

All events match, and not tied to Joseph. Check it out.

Blessings to you, Mike. You are a pleasant person to discuss things with.

Don't let em bother ya. We have been going back and fourth on this topic for a long time and many different threads. He just repeats himself because He can't get around the solid evidence that there is a rapture of the Church, the Lord moves His body out of God's way, so Satan can operate at full power without the hindrance of the Lord's Anointed and God can trash the place without us getting hurt in the process.

There is a reason we can't be around, and it's not all about us, but it would foul up God's plan, and iniquity will still be in check until the Lord removes his body out of the way. Where sin abounds, Grace abounds more. That grace is the gift of God, the body of Christ, giving light to this world.

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
(2Th 2:10-12)

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
(Mat 24:14)

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
(2Pe 3:9)

Once we all do our part, and every ear has heard (over and over) that none should perish, then it's over. What is left did not receive the love the the truth, and God sends them a strong delusion. No point in us being around now, we won't break that delusion God sent to all who rejected the truth.

Blessings to everyone!!!

Mike

 

[Brother Mike]

On tablet. Sorry for any opps...

Joel talks about start of church age and end, in a short chapter. Tongues are here, been here for awhile.

Now the issue is timing again. You want to throw the 6th seal into 70ad. We have to compare scriptures though. We have stars? Yes. Sun been put out? No. Jesus come where everyone tride to hide? No, not even in 70ad. God destroy most the sinners from the earth? No.

Do all the scriptures I have match. Yes

The instruction to flee was to those that keep the Sabbath and come from judeah. Our instruction was to watch and preach the gospel all over the world. One group food not call him Lord, we are told we don't know the day or hour of his coming (end of Matt 24)

The other group are told exactly when he is coming down to the last half hour.

I have learned not to care about doctrine but care if it all matches perfectly. Makes it a whole lot more easy for correction. Line upon line.

Revelation is world events to come. 1/3 of all trees have yet to burn up for example. That places the sixth seal in that time line.

Blessings

 

[Kathi]

The problem with pretribbers is the fact they don't seperate the tribulation of satan from the wrath of God,they are totally two different events

I challenge any pretribber to show me one,just one verse where Christ comes before the tribulation

I have posted those verses but people are blind to them.They want to read those verses as they wish.And I don't even know what you are talking about when you say "they don't separate the tribulation of Satan from the wrath of God". I have seen some pretty strange views on CF so I will let it go.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Hi Bill,
Youngster, thanks. Like my grandson, when he was five, informed a teacher reading a story, "You, never should call a lady old." He still says that today, makes me just hug him. I'm glad he is still at the age where he doesn't hugs and kisses. Children grow up way too fast anymore.
When I think about little nine yr. old girls being given HPV virus vaccines, I just cringe.
Right now Jake (g-son) is in the 4th grade. His Christian school class is studying American History and the documents of our country. The public school kids haven't even touched on it. They are studying about being a good citizen of the Government. Like Lexy says, "how to be good sheep, just do and think what they tell you to." That is just so backwards from what our country stands for. They are teaching our kids not to think for themselves.
God bless you and yours. I pray you have a wonderful day today, Bill.

My only grandchild, Ashly Gingrich, is just married, this past March. She still like hugs and kisses though. My sons have not been fruitful and the one that lives close to me rode a hard tail motor and made himself sterile and the other went up north and married, finally, in his forties to a lass with two that I never see. And your grandson is correct, never call any lass old, it's just not smart.

Another point, the top five percent of America's HS Graduates are Home and Christian Schooled. As much as our secular government hate Home and Christian Schooling one never hears them make a case for them being under-educated and if they did it would be a single case incident with the child having a learning disability. Christian Education just rocks!

 

[th1b.taylor]

I have posted those verses but people are blind to them.They want to read those verses as they wish.And I don't even know what you are talking about when you say "they don't separate the tribulation of Satan from the wrath of God". I have seen some pretty strange views on CF so I will let it go.

Don't worry Kathi, One and JLB know the TOS 2.4 and they are, both, following the rules, skirting the edge, to use the Lawyer's first rule of if the facts do not favor your client, in this case them, attack the messenger. You, MIKE. I and others have shown the scriptures to them and they have chosen not to believe but, rather, to remain on the attack. It's sad but some just never seem to find the peace of God.
,

 

[Deborah13]

On tablet. Sorry for any opps...

Joel talks about start of church age and end, in a short chapter. Tongues are here, been here for awhile.

Now the issue is timing again. You want to throw the 6th seal into 70ad. We have to compare scriptures though. We have stars? Yes. Sun been put out? No. Jesus come where everyone tride to hide? No, not even in 70ad. God destroy most the sinners from the earth? No.

Do all the scriptures I have match. Yes

The instruction to flee was to those that keep the Sabbath and come from judeah. Our instruction was to watch and preach the gospel all over the world. One group food not call him Lord, we are told we don't know the day or hour of his coming (end of Matt 24)

The other group are told exactly when he is coming down to the last half hour.

I have learned not to care about doctrine but care if it all matches perfectly. Makes it a whole lot more easy for correction. Line upon line.

Revelation is world events to come. 1/3 of all trees have yet to burn up for example. That places the sixth seal in that time line.

Blessings

The body of Christ is two flocks in one fold or flock. The 1st century church were not separated. This is what Paul was always teaching against. I think I am going to coin a word, the 'Gentilizers.'
Joh 10:15 according as the Father doth know me, and I know the Father, and my life I lay down for the sheep,
Joh 10:16 and other sheep I have that are not of this fold, these also it behoveth me to bring, and my voice they will hear, and there shall become one flock--one shepherd.

We as the body are one, Jew and Gentile, in Christ. There isn't any them and us.
Jew and Gentile are to preach the gospel message, no matter where they are living. But that is not in these scriptures. Paul said, that the gospel HAD BEEN preached to all the nations. Because we keep preaching it does not change the fact of what Paul said and how that relates to the end time spoken of in Matt., Mark, and Luke.
It says that when the message had been taken to all the nations then the tribulation spoke of in those scriptures would come.

 

[Deborah13]

My only grandchild, Ashly Gingrich, is just married, this past March. She still like hugs and kisses though. My sons have not been fruitful and the one that lives close to me rode a hard tail motor and made himself sterile and the other went up north and married, finally, in his forties to a lass with two that I never see. And your grandson is correct, never call any lass old, it's just not smart.

Another point, the top five percent of America's HS Graduates are Home and Christian Schooled. As much as our secular government hate Home and Christian Schooling one never hears them make a case for them being under-educated and if they did it would be a single case incident with the child having a learning disability. Christian Education just rocks!

With the state monies not being available for public schooling states like mine are putting public homeschool online for free. We took a look at it but it was horrible. Better to put out a little cash and get a excellent program.

 

[JLB]

Don't worry Kathi, One and JLB know the TOS 2.4 and they are, both, following the rules, skirting the edge, to use the Lawyer's first rule of if the facts do not favor your client, in this case them, attack the messenger. You, MIKE. I and others have shown the scriptures to them and they have chosen not to believe but, rather, to remain on the attack. It's sad but some just never seem to find the peace of God.
,

There has not been one scripture from you or anyone else that teaches the Rapture is before the Tribulation.

How could it possibly be before the tribulation, when the Resurrection of the dead in Christ happens a moment before the Rapture.

The Resurrection of the dead in Christ happens after the Tribulation, at His Coming.

The Resurrection can not be separated from the Rapture, as those who are Raptured are caught together with those who are Resurrected.

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:17


Please tell us how the resurrected saints who are martyred for Christ during the Tribulation are some how Resurrected before the tribulation?

Those who are resurrected are raised just BEFORE those who are Raptured.

They are both caught up together...

No one has ever posted a scripture to prove a pre-trib Rapture, because it just doesn't exist.


The Resurrection comes a moment before the a Rapture and includes the faithful tribulation saints that are martyred DURING the tribulation.

...And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. Revelation 20:4


JLB

 

[Deborah13]

On tablet. Sorry for any opps...

Joel talks about start of church age and end, in a short chapter. Tongues are here, been here for awhile.

Now the issue is timing again. You want to throw the 6th seal into 70ad. We have to compare scriptures though. We have stars? Yes. Sun been put out? No. Jesus come where everyone tride to hide? No, not even in 70ad. God destroy most the sinners from the earth? No.

Do all the scriptures I have match. Yes

The instruction to flee was to those that keep the Sabbath and come from judeah. Our instruction was to watch and preach the gospel all over the world. One group food not call him Lord, we are told we don't know the day or hour of his coming (end of Matt 24)

The other group are told exactly when he is coming down to the last half hour.

I have learned not to care about doctrine but care if it all matches perfectly. Makes it a whole lot more easy for correction. Line upon line.

Revelation is world events to come. 1/3 of all trees have yet to burn up for example. That places the sixth seal in that time line.

Blessings

I was thinking more about your post.
You said that it is the ones who, "The instruction to flee was to those that keep the Sabbath and come from judeah." So you are saying that the believing Jews are the ones told to flee. So you don't think they will be "caught up" with the non-Jewish believers? That they will live through the tribulation?
Paul was sure expecting to either be raised from the dead or caught up if he was still alive. How can this be? He was one of those who came from Judea, a Jew. He told all the believers they would be either resurrected or caught up. He never differentiated between the believers in this matter.

 

[th1b.taylor]

There has not been one scripture from you or anyone else that teaches the Rapture is before the Tribulation.

How could it possibly be before the tribulation, when the Resurrection of the dead in Christ happens a moment before the Rapture.

The Resurrection of the dead in Christ happens after the Tribulation, at His Coming.

The Resurrection can not be separated from the Rapture, as those who are Raptured are caught together with those who are Resurrected.

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:17


Please tell us how the resurrected saints who are martyred for Christ during the Tribulation are some how Resurrected before the tribulation?

Those who are resurrected are raised just BEFORE those who are Raptured.

They are both caught up together...

No one has ever posted a scripture to prove a pre-trib Rapture, because it just doesn't exist.


The Resurrection comes a moment before the a Rapture and includes the faithful tribulation saints that are martyred DURING the tribulation.

...And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. Revelation 20:4


JLB

And you will never again drag me into one of your argumenets again, my friend. Those contests do not help nor do they eddify the Body of Christ.

 

[JLB]

And you will never again drag me into one of your argumenets again, my friend. Those contests do not help nor do they eddify the Body of Christ.

That's funny, I have never asked you to address my post's, much less "drag you".

I find it interesting that you never just respond with a scripture.

You just criticize me or demean me with your accusations.

Why not comment on 1 Thessalonians 4:17?

This scripture shows us the Resurrection and rapture are one event and happen simultaneously, not being separated by 7 years as you suppose.

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:17

Why does me posting this scripture, make you so hostile towards me?


JLB

 

[n2thelight]

I have posted those verses but people are blind to them.They want to read those verses as they wish.And I don't even know what you are talking about when you say "they don't separate the tribulation of Satan from the wrath of God". I have seen some pretty strange views on CF so I will let it go.

The seperation is simple...The tribulation is of satan,that's why the times will be the worst in human history,as satan will be here on earth,all who are alive at that time will go through it,nowhere in scripture does it states we escape it....The wrath of God happens after the tribulation,and is poured out on all who followed satan,those who did not take the mark are not and will not have to worry about the wrath of God.........

 

[Kathi]

The seperation is simple...The tribulation is of satan,that's why the times will be the worst in human history,as satan will be here on earth,all who are alive at that time will go through it,nowhere in scripture does it states we escape it....The wrath of God happens after the tribulation,and is poured out on all who followed satan,those who did not take the mark are not and will not have to worry about the wrath of God.........

I do not agree with what you have to say.You have given no Biblical Scripture to support what you believe.

 

[n2thelight]

I do not agree with what you have to say.You have given no Biblical Scripture to support what you believe.

Yet you all can't give me one verse that show's Christ comes before the trib

 

[Gary]

Yet you all can't give me one verse that show's Christ comes before the trib

I would like to see that also.
.