Conditional salvation is works salvation !

[Edward]

I dont see Jesus saying anything about doing anything to get saved. Thats works, for Jesus did everything to save a sinner.

I believe that you are straining at gnats about this. Are you really saying that we don't ever have to do anything to receive salvation?

Wouldn't your premise have to agree with the entirety of scripture? There's tons of scripture about it. Here's one I haven't seen posted yet,

Revelation 19:
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.../

His Wife has made herself ready...
She was granted (many things....), but she still, makes herself ready. And it's like that all through scripture.

In the OT, God's offers were almost always, if then then that. If my people wil...then I will do this...and so forth. So while it IS God's gift to us, and we can do nothing, God does everything, we still have to initiate it to happen. We say, let this be Lord, do this, do that. You have not because you ask not.

Our participation is required.

 

[Edward]

I dont see Jesus saying anything about doing anything to get saved. Thats works, for Jesus did everything to save a sinner.

There were a lot of Covenants in the old Testament. Can you tell me the difference between a bilateral covenant, and a unilateral covenant?

 

[brightfame52]

I believe that you are straining at gnats about this. Are you really saying that we don't ever have to do anything to receive salvation?

Wouldn't your premise have to agree with the entirety of scripture? There's tons of scripture about it. Here's one I haven't seen posted yet,

Revelation 19:
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.../

His Wife has made herself ready...
She was granted (many things....), but she still, makes herself ready. And it's like that all through scripture.

In the OT, God's offers were almost always, if then then that. If my people wil...then I will do this...and so forth. So while it IS God's gift to us, and we can do nothing, God does everything, we still have to initiate it to happen. We say, let this be Lord, do this, do that. You have not because you ask not.

Our participation is required.

You can believe what you like, but a person isnt saved by works, by performing conditions.

 

[brightfame52]

There were a lot of Covenants in the old Testament. Can you tell me the difference between a bilateral covenant, and a unilateral covenant?

Im not getting into that with you. I will caution you however that Salvation isnt by works, by things you do. Its 100% by the Grace of God through the Person and Work of Jesus Christ !

 

[Edward]

I dont see Jesus saying anything about doing anything to get saved. Thats works, for Jesus did everything to save a sinner.

Jesus said believe and be saved. The culture and common usage at the time He said this, the term believe has an automatic connection to deeds of the flrsh. Something done by a person.

All through scripture it talks about the Lord God working through us so that the Kingdom of God manifest upon earth and souls can be saved.

Jesus stepped of the boat, and some lepers approached Him and said will you make us clean? Jesus said, I will. Then He healed them.

Now if Jesus had ignored the lepers and just turned and walked away without a word, would they have still been healed? Now of course it is God the Father's power which heals. But I think that if Jesus didn't initiate the healing to His Father first then I don't think they would have been healed.

Why did Jesus have to travel to Lazarus to raise Him from the dead? If He knew that He couldn't come right away why not just heal Lazarus from a distance so he don't die? Like Jesus did for the Centurion, remember? So what's the difference?

The Centurion said, no Lord you don't have to come. Just speak the words and he'll be ok... So the centurion participated and asked for the right thing. So he got it.

Even though it is God's power which heals and without that we can do no healing...why did God instruct us to, gou out heal the sick, raise the dead, cast out demons and spread the Gospel?

Why? Easy. It tells us that too. Merits. Build up your treasures in Heaven. Clothe yourself in fine white linen through your righteous deeds? Any of this ring a bell?

The seed of God has been planted within you Brother. Will you now grow into a mighty and fruitful plant for the Lord as instructed?? Or be the seed which refused to sprout?

 

[Edward]

Im not getting into that with you. I will caution you however that Salvation isnt by works, by things you do. Its 100% by the Grace of God through the Person and Work of Jesus Christ !

That is true but it still takes action on our part to initiate receiving His gift of salvation.

Did you or did you not initiate a conversation with God one day asking for forgiveness and for Him to save you?

Or did God just knock you off your horse one day like He did Paul and say, Boom, you are saved now?

He told us to seek Him and we will find Him. Knock on His door and He will open the door, and give us a gift!
Sorry Lord I can't do that, that's work and this is my day off...??

The only way you became saved is because you initiated it to God. You said, Yes Lord I believe you.

You can't collect on a Lottery prize if you don't show up and present the winner. You will have to sign papers before you get your money. Same principle.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

They are not necessary conditions man performs in order to cause God to save them. Thats salvation by works 1

So your position is that repentance of sin and faith are not necessary for salvation, right? I mean this is a simple question.

Leave out the “man performs” but as we all know men are doing the repenting and men are doing the believing. Even the hardest core Calvinists doesn’t go so far as to say that the saved man is totally passive and God even repents of the man’s sins while that man patiently waits.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Jesus said believe and be saved. The culture and common usage at the time He said this, the term believe has an automatic connection to deeds of the flrsh. Something done by a person.

All through scripture it talks about the Lord God working through us so that the Kingdom of God manifest upon earth and souls can be saved.

Jesus stepped of the boat, and some lepers approached Him and said will you make us clean? Jesus said, I will. Then He healed them.

Now if Jesus had ignored the lepers and just turned and walked away without a word, would they have still been healed? Now of course it is God the Father's power which heals. But I think that if Jesus didn't initiate the healing to His Father first then I don't think they would have been healed.

Why did Jesus have to travel to Lazarus to raise Him from the dead? If He knew that He couldn't come right away why not just heal Lazarus from a distance so he don't die? Like Jesus did for the Centurion, remember? So what's the difference?

The Centurion said, no Lord you don't have to come. Just speak the words and he'll be ok... So the centurion participated and asked for the right thing. So he got it.

Even though it is God's power which heals and without that we can do no healing...why did God instruct us to, gou out heal the sick, raise the dead, cast out demons and spread the Gospel?

Why? Easy. It tells us that too. Merits. Build up your treasures in Heaven. Clothe yourself in fine white linen through your righteous deeds? Any of this ring a bell?

The seed of God has been planted within you Brother. Will you now grow into a mighty and fruitful plant for the Lord as instructed?? Or be the seed which refused to sprout?

Great thoughts Edward! It’s interesting that Jesus often actually asked the sick what they wanted. I mean the blind come to him and he asks, “what do you want?” Today the blind man would be cheeky and say, “hey, I’m blind. What do you think I want? A hamburger? Come on Jesus! Figure it out!!

Jesus made them verbalize their request. Fascinating!

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Well man naturally isnt humble. So do you now condition salvation by grace on mans humility ?

Peter said “humble yourSELF under the hand if God” so it must be possible.

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus said believe and be saved. The culture and common usage at the time He said this, the term believe has an automatic connection to deeds of the flrsh. Something done by a person.

All through scripture it talks about the Lord God working through us so that the Kingdom of God manifest upon earth and souls can be saved.

Jesus stepped of the boat, and some lepers approached Him and said will you make us clean? Jesus said, I will. Then He healed them.

Now if Jesus had ignored the lepers and just turned and walked away without a word, would they have still been healed? Now of course it is God the Father's power which heals. But I think that if Jesus didn't initiate the healing to His Father first then I don't think they would have been healed.

Why did Jesus have to travel to Lazarus to raise Him from the dead? If He knew that He couldn't come right away why not just heal Lazarus from a distance so he don't die? Like Jesus did for the Centurion, remember? So what's the difference?

The Centurion said, no Lord you don't have to come. Just speak the words and he'll be ok... So the centurion participated and asked for the right thing. So he got it.

Even though it is God's power which heals and without that we can do no healing...why did God instruct us to, gou out heal the sick, raise the dead, cast out demons and spread the Gospel?

Why? Easy. It tells us that too. Merits. Build up your treasures in Heaven. Clothe yourself in fine white linen through your righteous deeds? Any of this ring a bell?

The seed of God has been planted within you Brother. Will you now grow into a mighty and fruitful plant for the Lord as instructed?? Or be the seed which refused to sprout?

I have no problem with what Jesus said. The matter of concern is people conditioning salvation on their works, their actions. Thats contrary to Salvation conditioned solely on Christ, His Person and Work alone !

 

[brightfame52]

That is true but it still takes action on our part to initiate receiving His gift of salvation.

Did you or did you not initiate a conversation with God one day asking for forgiveness and for Him to save you?

Or did God just knock you off your horse one day like He did Paul and say, Boom, you are saved now?

He told us to seek Him and we will find Him. Knock on His door and He will open the door, and give us a gift!
Sorry Lord I can't do that, that's work and this is my day off...??

The only way you became saved is because you initiated it to God. You said, Yes Lord I believe you.

You can't collect on a Lottery prize if you don't show up and present the winner. You will have to sign papers before you get your money. Same principle.

You are still conditioning salvation on man, his part,action, that's salvation by works friend.

 

[brightfame52]

So your position is that repentance of sin and faith are not necessary for salvation, right? I mean this is a simple question.

Leave out the “man performs” but as we all know men are doing the repenting and men are doing the believing. Even the hardest core Calvinists doesn’t go so far as to say that the saved man is totally passive and God even repents of the man’s sins while that man patiently waits.

I just told you what I believe. Faith and Repentance are not conditions men must meet in order for God to save them. Rather they are evidences , fruit that God has already saved a person.

 

[brightfame52]

Peter said “humble yourSELF under the hand if God” so it must be possible.

Peter was speaking to born again believers. 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Peter was writing to spiritual babes 1 Pet 2:1-2

Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,

2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

Peter was not writing to sinners dead in sin !

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I just told you what I believe. Faith and Repentance are not conditions men must meet in order for God to save them. Rather they are evidences , fruit that God has already saved a person.

So if that “evidence” is not there and observable, God has not saved them, right? So one can know one is saved by this observable evidence, right? No evidence then no salvation, right?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Peter was speaking to born again believers. 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Peter was writing to spiritual babes 1 Pet 2:1-2

Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,

2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

Peter was not writing to sinners dead in sin !

How do you know who reads this? And in any case, grace is given to the humble. That’s the promise and condition. It doesn’t fit the theology but that’s the scripture.

 

[brightfame52]

So if that “evidence” is not there and observable, God has not saved them, right? So one can know one is saved by this observable evidence, right? No evidence then no salvation, right?

If a person doest ever repent and believe the Gospel, then there is no evidence that they have been saved. If a person does repent and believe the Gospel, thats an evidence they had been or were saved. The evidence isnt for God, its for the person.

 

[brightfame52]

How do you know who reads this? And in any case, grace is given to the humble. That’s the promise and condition. It doesn’t fit the theology but that’s the scripture.

I dont understand your question. The letter was written to a specific people !

 

[Dorothy Mae]

If a person doest ever repent and believe the Gospel, then there is no evidence that they have been saved. If a person does repent and believe the Gospel, thats an evidence they had been or were saved. The evidence isnt for God, its for the person.

Is this how you normally talk? If not, who is it Thee quoteth?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I dont understand your question. The letter was written to a specific people !

So God gives grace to some humble but not to others? Did you know Peter was quoting the OT? Who was that written to?

 

[JLB]

If a person doest ever repent and believe the Gospel,

The way Jesus said we are saved is by believing.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12



How does a person become saved without believing?




JLB