“The Romans Road†has a disastrous fork in the road!

[Jethro Bodine]

[George, you are the one telling me who God is going to save and who God is going to condemn. Get off your high horse. Clearly, you have no concept of the difference between "reject" and "not aware of", so this conversation is over your head.

Have a wonderful holiday basting in the freedom given to you by others while you condemn billions to hell because they had no way of knowing about Jesus of Nazareth... I place my faith in a different sort of God, Who is a God of Love and would not do such a thing.

No, I quoted the Word of God, your conflict is with what God has had written in plain and clear words.

I see you still cannot admit your error? "but this conversation is over my head"

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Joh 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Yes, thanks again for proving my point. You still don't get that "reject" is not equal to "don't know about". Believes not = reject. How can you reject something you don't know about?

"Over your head". Yea, that describes it.

You see George, francisdesales above ^ exemplifies how some sect's see 'us' as believers who do not agree to any particular sect's demands in 'every way they demand' and then how they see an unbeliever.

An unbeliever doesn't know. They are termed 'ignorant.'

We who know and willingly, knowingly, openly disagree with some jots and tittles of some sect's endless litany of demands are factually considered official heretics by our so called 'fellow' believers and not 'ignorant unbelievers.'

LOL to those angles, I say.

Some of these sect's demand us to believe everything they claim is entirely without flaw. I say that is preposterous arrogant nonsense on the face of the claims.

s

What excuse do any of us have for teaching something different than the scriptures I have been sharing here? Especially if what we believe and teach leads others into sin and away from faith and repentance in Christ (as I personally believe OSAS has the potential to do). If we do, won't we be the very one's Christ said he will judge most harshly? We knew, but we persisted in our heresy anyway. Scary thought for the person doing that.

 

[Elijah674]

Yes, thanks again for proving my point. You still don't get that "reject" is not equal to "don't know about". Believes not = reject. How can you reject something you don't know about?

"Over your head". Yea, that describes it.

You see George, francisdesales above ^ exemplifies how some sect's see 'us' as believers who do not agree to any particular sect's demands in 'every way they demand' and then how they see an unbeliever.

An unbeliever doesn't know. They are termed 'ignorant.'

We who know and willingly, knowingly, openly disagree with some jots and tittles of some sect's endless litany of demands are factually considered official heretics by our so called 'fellow' believers and not 'ignorant unbelievers.'

LOL to those angles, I say.

Some of these sect's demand us to believe everything they claim is entirely without flaw. I say that is preposterous arrogant nonsense on the face of the claims.

s

What excuse do any of us have for teaching something different than the scriptures I have been sharing here? Especially if what we believe and teach leads others into sin and away from faith and repentance in Christ (as I personally believe OSAS has the potential to do). If we do, won't we be the very one's Christ said he will judge most harshly? We knew, but we persisted in our heresy anyway. Scary thought for the person doing that.

Good post even if it is left 1/2 done!;) What is missing is that when one reject truth for as long as some do here, (120 years of the Holy Spirits STRIVING! Gen. 6:3) the Holy Spirit will in time leave the person to their own belief. (of error)

--Elijah

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It's any sin that represents the decision to walk away from the blood of Christ. Obviously, that hardly means the sins that represent the growing pains of the sincere Christian longing to grow up into the image and stature of Christ.

The non-OSAS crowd has been judging believers for sin without any doubt. And unbelief is also a sin.

As if the sin of any believer is any better or worse?

No.

It has been pointed to repeatedly that we have 'enemies' and those enemies prevail to no uncertain extent within 'all' believers because we 'all' sin.

To say their sin is any worse than any other believers is simply not true.

NOR is it true that God in Christ ever left them or will not save them.

s

There is no forgiveness for blaspheming the Holy Spirit who testifies to the truth of Christ in this world. That particular sin is very distinct from all other sins. It is the sin that the one who never believes in Christ commits, or the one who turns from belief in Christ commits. It is in effect, calling God the Holy Spirit, who spoke that truth, a liar. There is no forgiveness for that sin. You can't commit that sin and expect to be saved on the Day of Judgment.

 

[smaller]

What excuse do any of us have for teaching something different than the scriptures I have been sharing here?

The same principles that I just observed with Mr. Francisdesales could very well apply to you too.

There are 'scriptures' and there are the likewise diverse reflections upon same.

Believers of every stripe factually have different levels of LIGHT given to them. Some see different than others. That's just a fact.

For EXAMPLE, and this is an example that I've given YOU many times now, I reject many forms of "denominational Jesus."

Does this make 'me' an unbeliever? Yes, to those particular 'sect's' I may very well be an 'unbeliever' in their subjective form of Jesus. More than likely they'd see me as a heretic, but I definitely REJECT their Jesus branding.

For example I left a particular denomination because they had a 'traditional ritual' of kissing a little 4' tall dark bronze statue of Jesus' tiny feet on ash Weds. held up on either side by altar boys. At some point after I was 'saved' I felt that to me that was idolatry. They term it instead 'veneration.'

I don't 'venerate' as a matter of conscience, and my actions could very well be a hindrance of 'their faith' to them.

Get the picture? If I don't 'agree' with them, that it's only veneration, then technically I could be either a heretic or what they also term 'invincibly ignorant.'

I simply object to the entire methodology and basis altogether.

Especially if what we believe and teach leads others into sin

I really don't know how you think that by being a 'believer' that you somehow cease to sin or that you somehow 'sin less' than any other person quite honestly.

I know a lot of unbelievers that sin no more than believers and are generally really good and fine people.

and away from faith and repentance in Christ (as I personally believe OSAS has the potential to do).

Grace should certainly not lead one to that conclusion, but you are certainly welcome to think somehow it does.

I am amazed sometimes that 'believers' use the threat of HELL to themselves to 'keep them from what they really want to do' as if God doesn't already know 'what they really want to do.'

I could give many examples of this kind of 'self mental abuse.' It's a trick that some people have to use ON THEMSELVES to keep them from doing 'what they really want to do,' apparently.

If we do, won't we be the very one's Christ said he will judge most harshly? We knew, but we persisted in our heresy anyway. Scary thought for the person doing that.

Every denomination 'uses and abuses' the specter of heresy to keep ahold on their denominational branding and keep their adherents scarred to death.

I belong to no one but Christ. They can keep their 'brand' or use it on themselves for all I care.

s

 

[Jethro Bodine]

What excuse do any of us have for teaching something different than the scriptures I have been sharing here? Especially if what we believe and teach leads others into sin and away from faith and repentance in Christ (as I personally believe OSAS has the potential to do). If we do, won't we be the very one's Christ said he will judge most harshly? We knew, but we persisted in our heresy anyway. Scary thought for the person doing that.

Good post even if it is left 1/2 done!;) What is missing is that when one reject truth for as long as some do here, (120 years of the Holy Spirits STRIVING! Gen. 6:3) the Holy Spirit will in time leave the person to their own belief. (of error)

--Elijah

Spot on, which is where I was going next in anticipation of the responses to be posted, but you got her covered.

 

[reba]

Every denomination 'uses and abuses' the specter of heresy to keep ahold on their denominational branding.

I belong to no one but Christ. They can keep their 'brand' or use it on themselves for all I care.

s

I would add :: we as individuals use and abuse the specter of heresy to keep a hold on our own brand of understanding...

 

[smaller]

Yes, thanks again for proving my point. You still don't get that "reject" is not equal to "don't know about". Believes not = reject. How can you reject something you don't know about?

"Over your head". Yea, that describes it.

You see George, francisdesales above ^ exemplifies how some sect's see 'us' as believers who do not agree to any particular sect's demands in 'every way they demand' and then how they see an unbeliever.

An unbeliever doesn't know. They are termed 'ignorant.'

We who know and willingly, knowingly, openly disagree with some jots and tittles of some sect's endless litany of demands are factually considered official heretics by our so called 'fellow' believers and not 'ignorant unbelievers.'

LOL to those angles, I say.

Some of these sect's demand us to believe everything they claim is entirely without flaw. I say that is preposterous arrogant nonsense on the face of the claims.

s

What excuse do any of us have for teaching something different than the scriptures I have been sharing here? Especially if what we believe and teach leads others into sin and away from faith and repentance in Christ (as I personally believe OSAS has the potential to do). If we do, won't we be the very one's Christ said he will judge most harshly? We knew, but we persisted in our heresy anyway. Scary thought for the person doing that.

Good post even if it is left 1/2 done!;) What is missing is that when one reject truth for as long as some do here, (120 years of the Holy Spirits STRIVING! Gen. 6:3) the Holy Spirit will in time leave the person to their own belief. (of error)

--Elijah

No one sees Perfectly Elijah, though some deceive themselves into thinking they do.

Even Paul saw only in part and as through glass darkly.

When we see ONLY in that 'truthful' way we also see the fact that none of us have PERFECT PERFORMANCES either as it is not even remotely possible seeing in that condition.

And in fact any claimers to the contrary to me would simply be 'self' deceived.

s

 

[smaller]

Every denomination 'uses and abuses' the specter of heresy to keep ahold on their denominational branding.

I belong to no one but Christ. They can keep their 'brand' or use it on themselves for all I care.

s

I would add :: we as individuals use and abuse the specter of heresy to keep a hold on our own brand of understanding...

The difficulty is when we start 'threatening' the eternal fate of other believers who don't see exactly like we do, and we think we are doing them a 'solid' by saving them from the hell we project upon them, which is ALWAYS a false projection to begin with.

s

 

[George Muller]

[George, you are the one telling me who God is going to save and who God is going to condemn. Get off your high horse. Clearly, you have no concept of the difference between "reject" and "not aware of", so this conversation is over your head.

Have a wonderful holiday basting in the freedom given to you by others while you condemn billions to hell because they had no way of knowing about Jesus of Nazareth... I place my faith in a different sort of God, Who is a God of Love and would not do such a thing.

No, I quoted the Word of God, your conflict is with what God has had written in plain and clear words.

I see you still cannot admit your error? "but this conversation is over my head"

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Joh 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Yes, thanks again for proving my point. You still don't get that "reject" is not equal to "don't know about". Believes not = reject. How can you reject something you don't know about?

"Over your head". Yea, that describes it.

Well we see in their own book that they do reject Christ. And you nor I can judge them but based on what God Has delivered through His Word, so again your conflict is with Gods Word. That no man can be saved but he by saved by faith the Blood of Christ is the most evident truth of the scriptures. No matter how you turn it, or aurgue within your own sense of right and wrong, God is righteous and what He decides to save He will save, what He will destroy He will destroy.

 

[reba]

The difficulty is when we start 'threatening' the eternal fate of other believers who don't see exactly like we do, and we think we are doing them a 'solid' by saving them from the hell we project upon them, which is ALWAYS a false projection to begin with.

I can not ' threaten ' anothers eternal fate.... who am I to do such.. I can question , cause them to question has what happened to you.... I can encourage ....I can hold up a warning sign... God knows His kids... There was a time when I KNEW how things were in Scripture... God has mellowed me from a Bible Thumper to Bible Lover...We do change in Him He grows us ... Some times He may use Miracle Gro some times He gets some one else to pull the weeds..

 

[George Muller]

George, you are the one telling me who God is going to save and who God is going to condemn. Get off your high horse. Clearly, you have no concept of the difference between "reject" and "not aware of", so this conversation is over your head.

Have a wonderful holiday basting in the freedom given to you by others while you condemn billions to hell because they had no way of knowing about Jesus of Nazareth... I place my faith in a different sort of God, Who is a God of Love and would not do such a thing.

No, I quoted the Word of God, your conflict is with what God has had written in plain and clear words.

I see you still cannot admit your error? "but this conversation is over my head"

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Joh 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Explain this verse to us, George:

Jesus said, “If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains." (John 9:40 NIV)

I'm quoting the clear words of scripture. God condemns or acquits on the basis of what we know and are accountable for, not what we don't know. And the scriptures tell us plainly that the testimony of God has gone out into all the world in one fashion of another to make men accountable. Paul even prefaces his Romans 2 argument with that very fact:

"The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened." (Romans 1:18-21 NIV)

Let's leave the judging (that every single soul who has never heard about Christ and the gospel is damned) to God, who alone knows who has responded appropriately in faith to that which God has shown them, glorifying and thanking him, and who has not. Okay?

Well of course he was speaking to those who thought to justify themselves by works of the law, Those who think they can "earn" salvation by good works. But the sinner admits the truth of the Gospel, that "none are righteous, no not one" and the only way to be saved is by faith. This is pretty basic stuff, that a first year bible student would understand.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Get the picture? If I don't 'agree' with them, that it's only veneration, then technically I could be either a heretic or what they also term 'invincibly ignorant.'

I simply object to the entire methodology and basis altogether.

So then, in the case of the multitudes of people in history who haven't heard the gospel you choose to just flat out condemn them to hell? How is that a response in line with what you're saying here?

Actually, I would think you would be for our argument...to let God judge the one who has never heard the gospel and, therefore, hasn't been able to conform to what we know to be the complete truth. Pretty hard to argue with if you ask me.

I really don't know how you think that by being a 'believer' that you somehow cease to sin or that you somehow 'sin less' than any other person quite honestly.

But my sin is forgiven. How is that the same as unbelievers who sin?

I'm familair with these arguments. As I said, these arguments are the same arguments the unsaved use to justify their sin and somehow escape God's judgment against them for those sins.

And furthermore, I'm not guilty of a particular sin that they are...resisting the Holy Spirit's testimony about the Christ. If they persist in that they will forfeit their chance for forgiveness. And so will I if I choose to resist the testimony of the Spirit concerning the forgiveness of sins in Christ, too. Assuming that's possible for me to do one day now that I'm already a believer.

I am amazed sometimes that 'believers' use the threat of HELL to themselves to 'keep them from what they really want to do' as if God doesn't already know 'what they really want to do.'

I could give many examples of this kind of 'self mental abuse.' It's a trick that some people have to use ON THEMSELVES to keep them from doing 'what they really want to do,' apparently.

Again, I don't see this as being different from what unbelievers level against the faith.

"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge; Fools despise wisdom and instruction." (Proverbs 1:7 NASB)

"To fear the Lord is to hate evil..." (Proverbs 8:13 NIV)

Based on this, is fear God's trick for getting us to submit, as you are suggesting fear is used for? Do I somehow show I fear God when I don't hate the evil I still fall into, unlike the unbeliever who shows his lack of knowledge and fear of God by the evil he does?

If we do, won't we be the very one's Christ said he will judge most harshly? We knew, but we persisted in our heresy anyway. Scary thought for the person doing that.

Every denomination 'uses and abuses' the specter of heresy to keep ahold on their denominational branding and keep their adherents scarred to death.

I belong to no one but Christ. They can keep their 'brand' or use it on themselves for all I care.

s

What you need to do is take the quotes I've shared from the Bible and explain how we are to understand them, because you obviously think our understanding of them is wrong. That is how you will prove your case, smaller.

 

[George Muller]

God's grace allows unbelievers to enter the kingdom? That's completely contrary to the gospel message.

Have you now changed your standard? Only a few post ago you suggested that muslims had no need to accept Christ by faith, yet now you seem to try to argue the opposite? So these high standards are only for those who have been washed in the Blood of Christ? But the unwashed are in no need of the Blood? Your doctrines are very inconsistent.

What you mention above is typical in the non-OSAS understandings in general. MOST of these 'groups' are harder on believers who do not belong to their particular 'sect' than they are to blinded unbelievers.

In the non-OSAS crowd the unbeliever represents an opportunity to proselytize. They don't term a blinded person a heretic like they do believers who don't agree with them entirely.

It's such a weird double standard it is sometimes hard to even tolerate it.

s

Of course they cannot see that they seek to condemn that which Christ has bought with His Blood, and seek to justify that which is unwashed and rejects the need for His Blood.

 

[reba]

You still don't get that "reject" is not equal to "don't know about". Believes not = reject. How can you reject something you don't know about?

Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

 

[smaller]

The difficulty is when we start 'threatening' the eternal fate of other believers who don't see exactly like we do, and we think we are doing them a 'solid' by saving them from the hell we project upon them, which is ALWAYS a false projection to begin with.

I can not ' threaten ' anothers eternal fate.... who am I to do such.. I can question , cause them to question has what happened to you.... I can encourage ....I can hold up a warning sign... God knows His kids... There was a time when I KNEW how things were in Scripture... God has mellowed me from a Bible Thumper to Bible Lover...We do change in Him He grows us ... Some times He may use Miracle Gro some times He gets some one else to pull the weeds..

I hear ya there. Sometimes when we are new to belief we can get pretty exuberant, but that changes to a more grounded in reality approach over time.

I've actually apologized to some I witnessed to in my early 'believe like me or fry' time as it just was not true and I was [gasp and heaven forbid] WRONG.

s

 

[reba]

Snarks are showing up again.....

 

[Jethro Bodine]

George, you are the one telling me who God is going to save and who God is going to condemn. Get off your high horse. Clearly, you have no concept of the difference between "reject" and "not aware of", so this conversation is over your head.

Have a wonderful holiday basting in the freedom given to you by others while you condemn billions to hell because they had no way of knowing about Jesus of Nazareth... I place my faith in a different sort of God, Who is a God of Love and would not do such a thing.

No, I quoted the Word of God, your conflict is with what God has had written in plain and clear words.

I see you still cannot admit your error? "but this conversation is over my head"

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Joh 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Explain this verse to us, George:

Jesus said, “If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains." (John 9:40 NIV)

I'm quoting the clear words of scripture. God condemns or acquits on the basis of what we know and are accountable for, not what we don't know. And the scriptures tell us plainly that the testimony of God has gone out into all the world in one fashion of another to make men accountable. Paul even prefaces his Romans 2 argument with that very fact:

"The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened." (Romans 1:18-21 NIV)

Let's leave the judging (that every single soul who has never heard about Christ and the gospel is damned) to God, who alone knows who has responded appropriately in faith to that which God has shown them, glorifying and thanking him, and who has not. Okay?

Well of course he was speaking to those who thought to justify themselves by works of the law, Those who think they can "earn" salvation by good works. But the sinner admits the truth of the Gospel, that "none are righteous, no not one" and the only way to be saved is by faith. This is pretty basic stuff, that a first year bible student would understand.

Actually, George, he is talking about those who "don't have the law" (Romans 2:14 NIV).

And it seems you are still not understanding that it is the person responding in faith to what they know that leads to repentance that we are saying is the basis for God's acceptance of them. But, like so many in the church, all you seem to be able to hear is 'works salvation'. I understand why. I was a victim of the church's indoctrination that says any and all mention of works in the same sentence as salvation means 'works salvation'. Not knowing that genuine faith must change the person to one who relies on the forgiveness of God, not one who can take it or leave it, and demonstrates the genuiness of that faith by them seeking "glory, honor and immortality" and eternal life by a dedicated persistence in seeking good (Romans 2:7 NIV). This does not mean perfection in doing that as the basis for salvation, but the mindset of obedience (Romans 8:5 NIV) because one truly believes in the forgiveness of God and the judgment to come.

 

[George Muller]

Explain this verse to us, George:

Jesus said, “If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains." (John 9:40 NIV)

I'm quoting the clear words of scripture. God condemns or acquits on the basis of what we know and are accountable for, not what we don't know. And the scriptures tell us plainly that the testimony of God has gone out into all the world in one fashion of another to make men accountable. Paul even prefaces his Romans 2 argument with that very fact:

"The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened." (Romans 1:18-21 NIV)

Let's leave the judging (that every single soul who has never heard about Christ and the gospel is damned) to God, who alone knows who has responded appropriately in faith to that which God has shown them, glorifying and thanking him, and who has not. Okay?

Well of course he was speaking to those who thought to justify themselves by works of the law, Those who think they can "earn" salvation by good works. But the sinner admits the truth of the Gospel, that "none are righteous, no not one" and the only way to be saved is by faith. This is pretty basic stuff, that a first year bible student would understand.

Actually, George, he is talking about those who "don't have the law" (Romans 2:14 NIV).

Well of course that makes no sense, but it does not matter to the truth I made, those who claim to have their own righteousness are those who are blind to their sin and all need the Blood of Christ and to accept His Righteousness by faith.

 

[smaller]

So then, in the case of the multitudes of people in history who haven't heard the gospel you choose to just flat out condemn them to hell? How is that a response in line with what you're saying here?

I don't know how you derived that from anything I've ever posted.

Never said such a thing, though it is a common christian fairy tale believed by many.

But my sin is forgiven. How is that the same as unbelievers who sin?

I don't ascribe to the double standard of hypocrisy on that matter either, i.e. 'my sin' is forgiven by Christ but the other guy's sin ain't.

Jesus warned us openly on hypocrisy in MANY places. So do the Apostles.

Romans 3:9
What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

With matters of sin ours is no different than anyone else's.

The people of Israel were advised the same thing in the O.T.

I'm familair with these arguments. As I said, these arguments are the same arguments the unsaved use to justify their sin and somehow escape God's judgment against them for those sins.

You fail to understand the point made. Yes, I am an unbeliever in denominational Jesus and I actually expect and know that many others whom YOU might consider UNbelievers will reject DENOMINATIONAL JESUS as well.

You can say they use the same argument, but the fact is it's a valid argument. I reject many forms of 'false Jesus' and YEAH, there is a boatload of false Jesus' in this world. More than I can even keep track of. IN fact anytime some 'believer' holds up X Jesus and sez 'this is the whole enchilada Jesus' they are in fact liars.

None of us see that good, period.

And furthermore, I'm not guilty of a particular sin that they are...resisting the Holy Spirit's testimony about the Christ.

Yeah, well, your testimony may not be all that great either. You are not the Holy Spirit.

I actually expect the Holy Spirit get's the job done.

If they persist in that they will forfeit their chance for forgiveness.

I don't believe in the salvation by chance Jesus either just so you know.

Life is not a game of roulette or black jack.

And so will I if I choose to resist the testimony of the Spirit concerning the forgiveness of sins in Christ, too. Assuming that's possible for me to do one day now that I'm already a believer.

A pastor I once had said most believers wouldn't know the Holy Spirit if He walked in the door wearing a red cowboy hat.

He was right.

s

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The difficulty is when we start 'threatening' the eternal fate of other believers who don't see exactly like we do, and we think we are doing them a 'solid' by saving them from the hell we project upon them, which is ALWAYS a false projection to begin with.

s

Your hiding behind a weak and vague argument.

To think the way you do is to have no gospel truth at all. It's every man for himself because it's impossible to discern the truth. Again, a popular argument among unbelievers, not those in the church. I'm not suggesting you're an unbeliever. I'm simply showing you how worldly and misguided and uninformed these beliefs are.

If what you say is true we can all throw our Bibles away and conform to the 'religion' of the world that has no absolutes, no judgment of truth that can be applied anywhere, because there is no such thing, or it is impossible to be discerned.

Me? I'm going with the Bible. You can disagree if you want, but that is where the truth about faith, repentance, and the judgment to come is found.