A Biblical Conflict

[JLB]

the context is to hang in there even though it gets tough hectic our spiritual inheritance is kept by the power of God .

Agreed.

 

[chessman]

That’s just scripture.

Scripture is full of hymns and creeds. This is one of them.

Just as Jesus taught Him.

He wasn’t quoting Jesus, ‘just as’ Jesus said it. Else it was a misquote as you pointed out. They aren’t the same sayings. Nor the same context.

 

[JLB]

Anything from denying us pudding (or a new car)

Your the only one such things.


JLB

 

[JLB]

He wasn’t quoting Jesus, ‘just as’ Jesus said it. Else it was a misquote as you pointed out. They aren’t the same sayings. Nor the same context.

Did Paul learn what He wrote in the letters from Christ or someone else?


JLB

 

[ezra]

Did Paul learn what He wrote in the letters from Christ or someone else?

paul was very knowledgeable he learned from both... his main source was christ.. if the apstole paul was alive today..he would be bust straightening out many

 

[WIP]

But the O.P. is not about the difference between two persons spoken of in scripture.

It's about the apparent conflict between
2 Timothy 2:12-13

Do you not see a conflict there?
How do we reconcile it?

How about this. I replied earlier that God is faithful. God will not forsake us (Deuteronomy 31:6-8, Hebrews 13:5). I referenced the prodigal son as an example. He took his inheritance, left the fold, and went out on his own. As far as his father was concerned he was lost (dead in some translations) but despite that, the father remained faithful and when the son finally realized his error and in humility came back to his father, his father welcomed him with open arms, rejoicing that he was once again no longer lost (dead in some translations). Nowhere in that parable does it talk about the father going after the son. When the son left, he was dead as far as the father was concerned.

 

[WIP]

paul was very knowledgeable he learned from both... his main source was christ.. if the apstole paul was alive today..he would be bust straightening out many

That is most certainly true. Which of us would require the straightening? I propose all of us in one way or another.

 

[ezra]

I propose all of us in one way or another.

i propose your right in all of us.. note i never pointed out who i said many which means more than one.. the main reason i never said all of us..due the religious spirit in here ..i figured it would create ANOTHER firestorm

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

This isn't a scriptural answer, or even an answer that is in reference to 2 Timothy 2. So for that I apologize. I wrote it a while ago, concerning some thoughts that sometimes show up inside of me. But I think it fits the context of being Christian, but having struggles in faith, or having walked away for a time, or of any failure in our walk in faith.
___________________

A wish among wishes. Beyond most dreams and hopes is the final hope, the lasting wish. That I might be found in your name, and have a home in your Kingdom. What a hope that could be.

But on each day, I see my faults, and my strong weaknesses. I see every reason to not keep me and not want me. And some days I discover new reasons and new faults. What could become of someone like me. In an imperfect world I am a failure, and my frustration fills me with fear that I will break all my bridges and only have myself to blame.

Oh what is there that in my greatest hope there lies my greatest fear. That you would not pick me, and would not know me.
__________________________

... It's worth sharing that while writing and finishing this, I felt a mix of sadness and love. I think God won't abondon us, and He knows our weaknesses. At least that is my hope. Otherwise what other hope is there? I've once fallen away due to a depression where I distanced myself from anyone, God included. If that can happen once, it can happen again. I have to hope on God because both everyday failures and the big ones that happen less often can be a source of great worry. "Am I really saved," "was I ever saved," "does God love me;" are all the kinds of thoughts after seeing our own failures and worrying about a great change in our relationship with God.

Hope on God, cling to Him. Because there's too much in us to not be reliable about.

 

[for_his_glory]

the context is to hang in there even though it gets tough hectic our spiritual inheritance is kept by the power of God .

Our inheritance is reserved with God as it is we who are of Christ who are kept by God during the times of trials.

1 Peter 1:
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: 7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: 8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

 

[ezra]

Our inheritance is reserved with God as it is we who are of Christ who are kept by God during the times of trials.

that is MAJOR disagreement.. trials are there to make us /the refiners fire.. peter is encouraging those going through tough times , he is not saying you better shape up or you will lose your salvation . i am not advocating eternal security . what i am advocating is even though we may not hold up good under trials and at times feel like throwing in the towel giving up . if every one would be honest they all have given up. then the holy spirit in us comes in and fixes our heart . in the 20 years i been in the ministry i have said many times i quit. the Bible says ROMANS 5:20

Moreover the law entered, that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound, the law never could fix a thing but Grace will fix it all ..

 

[Tessa]

i propose your right in all of us.. note i never pointed out who i said many which means more than one.. the main reason i never said all of us..due the religious spirit in here ..i figured it would create ANOTHER firestorm

I don't see why it should Ezra because what you say there is true. Wouldn't we be my my to have Paul with us now. But we have got the Holy Spirit

 

[ezra]

I don't see why it should Ezra because what you say there is true. Wouldn't we be my my to have Paul with us now. But we have got the Holy Spirit

we do have the holy spirit to teach us.. the sooner we learn to walk in the spirit and learn the three things paaul prayed for us that we should learn .the better off we will be .being a christian is a ongoing process . we are the Clay he is the potter .molding and making us what we need to be ==Holy

 

[Tessa]

This isn't a scriptural answer, or even an answer that is in reference to 2 Timothy 2. So for that I apologize. I wrote it a while ago, concerning some thoughts that sometimes show up inside of me. But I think it fits the context of being Christian, but having struggles in faith, or having walked away for a time, or of any failure in our walk in faith.
___________________

A wish among wishes. Beyond most dreams and hopes is the final hope, the lasting wish. That I might be found in your name, and have a home in your Kingdom. What a hope that could be.

But on each day, I see my faults, and my strong weaknesses. I see every reason to not keep me and not want me. And some days I discover new reasons and new faults. What could become of someone like me. In an imperfect world I am a failure, and my frustration fills me with fear that I will break all my bridges and only have myself to blame.

Oh what is there that in my greatest hope there lies my greatest fear. That you would not pick me, and would not know me.
__________________________

... It's worth sharing that while writing and finishing this, I felt a mix of sadness and love. I think God won't abondon us, and He knows our weaknesses. At least that is my hope. Otherwise what other hope is there? I've once fallen away due to a depression where I distanced myself from anyone, God included. If that can happen once, it can happen again. I have to hope on God because both everyday failures and the big ones that happen less often can be a source of great worry. "Am I really saved," "was I ever saved," "does God love me;" are all the kinds of thoughts after seeing our own failures and worrying about a great change in our relationship with God.

Hope on God, cling to Him. Because there's too much in us to not be reliable about.

Thank you for sharing , that is beautiful and straight from the heart. Very encouraging Not_Now.Soon

 

[Tessa]

we do have the holy spirit to teach us.. the sooner we learn to walk in the spirit and learn the three things paaul prayed for us that we should learn .the better off we will be .being a christian is a ongoing process . we are the Clay he is the potter .molding and making us what we need to be ==Holy

Agreed Ezra. It can be painful but necessary.

 

[Northman]

Throwing my chip on the pile of there being not even an appearance of conflict in 2 Timothy 2:12-13.

Peter lost faith while walking on actual water. He also denied the Lord three times. People go through stuff. God is faithful and wasn't done with Peter just like He isn't done with people going through that same stuff now. Everyone dies with unresolved sin on their plates.

 

[ezra]

Throwing my chip on the pile of there being not even an appearance of conflict in 2 Timothy 2:12-13.

Peter lost faith while walking on actual water. He also denied the Lord three times. People go through stuff. God is faithful and wasn't done with Peter just like He isn't done with people going through that same stuff now. Everyone dies with unresolved sin on their plates.

agreed i would hope when one leaves this walk of life. they would have got things squared away with the Lord.. so with out jumping to conclusions ..not sure what you mean by unresolved sin on their plates...could you explain that ..i know when i do wrong i ask the Lord for forgiveness even then i have to keep praying through

 

[Northman]

agreed i would hope when one leaves this walk of life. they would have got things squared away with the Lord.. so with out jumping to conclusions ..not sure what you mean by unresolved sin on their plates...could you explain that ..i know when i do wrong i ask the Lord for forgiveness even then i have to keep praying through

The primary reference would be 1 John 1:8. The reasoning behind what I said is just real life I suppose. Everyone has something "wrong" with them.

Even though I knew the concept, I have to credit God's work through Obadiah(the guy here that was a cop) on how it was put into something understandable to me. In one discussion he would describe how God would work with him on issues that he had, then when he was all done he felt relief, right up to the point God had something else for them to work on. Now what was/is apparent was that a persons lifetime isn't long enough to get all this stuff done. Not only that, but even Obadiah himself wasn't aware of the problem til God pointed it out.

So sure we repent in whatever manner we do when we know we have done something wrong, but not all wrong things are laid upon us. This idea is touched by scripture in Acts 15:28. Those believers were given only two things to worry about. As we all know or should know through practice, that list gets bigger and bigger as time goes by. The main point is that those people were probably oblivious to their wrong doing right up til God showed them, just like Obadiah, and they weren't any less saved than the more disciplined apostles whom the message was delivered through, even if they died before their list of obedience grew.

 

[ezra]

The primary reference would be 1 John 1:8. The reasoning behind what I said is just real life I suppose. Everyone has something "wrong" with them.

Even though I knew the concept, I have to credit God's work through Obadiah(the guy here that was a cop) on how it was put into something understandable to me. In one discussion he would describe how God would work with him on issues that he had, then when he was all done he felt relief, right up to the point God had something else for them to work on. Now what was/is apparent was that a persons lifetime isn't long enough to get all this stuff done. Not only that, but even Obadiah himself wasn't aware of the problem til God pointed it out.

So sure we repent in whatever manner we do when we know we have done something wrong, but not all wrong things are laid upon us. This idea is touched by scripture in Acts 15:28. Those believers were given only two things to worry about. As we all know or should know through practice, that list gets bigger and bigger as time goes by. The main point is that those people were probably oblivious to their wrong doing right up til God showed them, just like Obadiah, and they weren't any less saved than the more disciplined apostles whom the message was delivered through, even if they died before their list of obedience grew.

that is a different point of view ..but you explained one part and it is only minor

So sure we repent in whatever manner we do when we know we have done something wrong, but not all wrong things are laid upon us

the Holy spirit does prick our heart when we done q wrong/sinned . but sometimes we are hardheaded and ignore . this is where paul wrote quench not the spirit .. but never the less you made a good point

 

[GodsGrace]

i have posted what i believe i have given scriptures lol and ya know suddenly ol ezra become the focus point so suddenly your mod or admin?

NO!
I just hate ugly arguments and we could request that a thread be closed...as least we used to be able to...