A Theological and Exegetical Examination of Holy Spirit Baptism

[Sparkey]

Paul asked the disciples of John the Baptist this in Acts 19:2


That's ok, put it any order you want. The bible states, hear, believe confess, repent and be baptized.

Peter agrees, "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call." - [Acts 2:38-39 KJV]

 

[BornAgain]

Peter agrees, "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call." - [Acts 2:38-39 KJV]

 

[BornAgain]

Peter agrees, "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call." - [Acts 2:38-39 KJV]

Yes...I am in agreement with that scripture. Used to being on the defensive here..

 

[ezra]

to sum this entire post up. no matter what scriptures posted. some will reject due to tunnel vision

 

[smaller]

Paul asked the disciples of John the Baptist this in Acts 19:2

He was told that they had not heard anything about the Holy Ghost. So Paul explained some things and then baptized them for a second time (only this time, in the name of Jesus). Afterward, when he laid his hands on them, they received the Holy Ghost!

Many professing Christians have never heard this because most ministers do not believe this Bible experience is for people today. However, regardless of the theology or doctrines that most ministers have been instructed to teach, the question above should be asked of every professing Christian today. Those who are truly independent thinking Bible students will search it out for themselves in the scriptures, and will find out what the Bible has to say about this matter.

Jesus told Nicodemus in John 3:5, "... Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Romans 8:9 tells us, "...Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

.

How does one know when they receive the Holy Ghost?

Some ministers teach that the Holy Spirit is received "automatically" ... with no apparent outward manifestation ... when a person "believes" and accepts Christ as their personal Savior. However, in Acts 8:12-17, we read about people who believed, yet they had NOT received the Holy Spirit.

.

Acts Chapter 8

12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

.

And again, some teach that the Holy Spirit is received "automatically" ... with no apparent outward manifestation ... at the same time a person is baptized in water. However, in Acts 8:12-17 (as shown above), & Acts 19:1-6 we read about those who received the Holy Spirit AFTER being baptized... but in Acts 10:44-48 we read about others who received the Holy Spirit BEFORE being baptized.

NOTE: (I did a google lookup for the Scripture "Since you believed" then cut-n-pasted from http://www.impact-ministry.com/acts2/believed.html) because I thought it answered your question very well.

No man forces The Spirit to do anything.

Paul was clear that not all will have the same graces.

Today these various matters are so mangled by bad teachings, sectarian divisions and showboat stage actors it is beyond recognition anyway.

And in many cases Paul's dissections are no help as they are purposefully structured with conflicts as we see in his "One Baptism" statement as opposed to the 'baptismS" plural statement in Hebrews. Oh yeah? One? More? What 'order' 'what signs' 'what meanings' 'what formats' etc etc etc.

At some point a believer is left to sort through these matters between themselves and the Spirit to find understandings and they have to be content with what their own conscience is settled with as that is what we individually have to live with.

I have found the lowest threshold presenting the least stumbling blocks to be the best for me. Jesus for example said that providing a cold cup of water will receive a reward. That's what I might term a 'low threshold.'

It's not like God in Christ is purposefully trying to make matters difficult, but at the same time He is. It really depends on the reflections from the individuals and in reality that is why there are complexities presented, in that hearts are in fact 'revealed.'

If one considers the heart likened to a bell, then when it is struck or shaken it gives off a sound indicating it's tone. If it's a bad tone it's a thud. A good tone is pleasant.

Not all bells are alike. Not all hearts are alike and were never meant to be. God in His creation has made each bell entirely unique to 'His' liking. I expect it will be a pretty interesting final arrangement.

The Head Contractor works with living stones. One might presume He knows what He is doing.

s

 

[Justin_Gilpin]

An issue that I see coming up over and over again, is that it's required to have a water baptism to goto heaven?

Jesus told Nicodemus in John 3:5, "... Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Jesus is saying if your born of the Spirit then it's done. Your sealed! Many verses confirm that once you have the Spirit, then no worries.

God is not some religious God who makes us visit certain countries or pray x amount of times a day or recite some long prayer or do religious acts like making the sign of the cross or dunking us under water. Romans 10:9 "confess and believe"

What if you confessed and believed right before you died, without having a chance to go underwater? Doesn't God know your heart or am I mistaken here? There is definitly something powerful about baptism, but it is not what takes us to heaven. Only the Spirit sealing us does that. The Holy Spirit doesn't enter us when we are baptized does it? I rest my case, but don't ignore what I'm saying here because it's very important we understand this, and teach it correctly!

 

[BornAgain]

An issue that I see coming up over and over again, is that it's required to have a water baptism to goto heaven?

Jesus told Nicodemus in John 3:5, "... Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Jesus is saying if your born of the Spirit then it's done. Your sealed! Many verses confirm that once you have the Spirit, then no worries.

God is not some religious God who makes us visit certain countries or pray x amount of times a day or recite some long prayer or do religious acts like making the sign of the cross or dunking us under water. Romans 10:9 "confess and believe"

What if you confessed and believed right before you died, without having a chance to go underwater? Doesn't God know your heart or am I mistaken here? There is definitly something powerful about baptism, but it is not what takes us to heaven. Only the Spirit sealing us does that. The Holy Spirit doesn't enter us when we are baptized does it? I rest my case, but don't ignore what I'm saying here because it's very important we understand this, and teach it correctly!

If you have the knowledge and the opportunity and do not do anything about it you will be held accountable.

2 Peter 2:21 (KJV)
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

 

[BornAgain]

No man forces The Spirit to do anything.

Paul was clear that not all will have the same graces.

Today these various matters are so mangled by bad teachings, sectarian divisions and showboat stage actors it is beyond recognition anyway.

And in many cases Paul's dissections are no help as they are purposefully structured with conflicts as we see in his "One Baptism" statement as opposed to the 'baptismS" plural statement in Hebrews. Oh yeah? One? More? What 'order' 'what signs' 'what meanings' 'what formats' etc etc etc.

At some point a believer is left to sort through these matters between themselves and the Spirit to find understandings and they have to be content with what their own conscience is settled with as that is what we individually have to live with.

I have found the lowest threshold presenting the least stumbling blocks to be the best for me. Jesus for example said that providing a cold cup of water will receive a reward. That's what I might term a 'low threshold.'

It's not like God in Christ is purposefully trying to make matters difficult, but at the same time He is. It really depends on the reflections from the individuals and in reality that is why there are complexities presented, in that hearts are in fact 'revealed.'

If one considers the heart likened to a bell, then when it is struck or shaken it gives off a sound indicating it's tone. If it's a bad tone it's a thud. A good tone is pleasant.

Not all bells are alike. Not all hearts are alike and were never meant to be. God in His creation has made each bell entirely unique to 'His' liking. I expect it will be a pretty interesting final arrangement.

The Head Contractor works with living stones. One might presume He knows what He is doing.

s

Right...not in agreement.

 

[Butch5]

An issue that I see coming up over and over again, is that it's required to have a water baptism to goto heaven?

Jesus told Nicodemus in John 3:5, "... Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Jesus is saying if your born of the Spirit then it's done. Your sealed! Many verses confirm that once you have the Spirit, then no worries.

God is not some religious God who makes us visit certain countries or pray x amount of times a day or recite some long prayer or do religious acts like making the sign of the cross or dunking us under water. Romans 10:9 "confess and believe"

What if you confessed and believed right before you died, without having a chance to go underwater? Doesn't God know your heart or am I mistaken here? There is definitly something powerful about baptism, but it is not what takes us to heaven. Only the Spirit sealing us does that. The Holy Spirit doesn't enter us when we are baptized does it? I rest my case, but don't ignore what I'm saying here because it's very important we understand this, and teach it correctly!

Hi Justin,

Actually, it is at baptism that one receives the Spirit. We have an example of this with Jesus' baptism. He went into the water and when He came out of the water the Spirit descended and rested on Him. Peter also said repent and be baptized and you shall received the gift of the Holy Spirit. Paul addresses this in Colossians also.

10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;​

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; (Col 2:10-14 KJV)

This was also the first teaching in the Christian faith.

Here are just a few quotes from the earlies Chrsitians.

Ignatius was a disciple of the apostle John

Ignatius appeals to Rom. 6:5"Wherefore also, ye appear to me to live not after the manner of men, but according to Jesus Christ, who died for us, in order that, by believing in His death, ye may by baptism be made partakers of His resurrection." (Ignatius, Epistle to the Trallians, II)

The Early Church Fathers: Ante-Nicene Fathers Volume 1

Barnabas 70-130
Further, what says He? “And there was a river flowing on the right, and from it arose beautiful trees; and whosoever shall eat of them shall live for ever.” (Ezek. 47:12) This meaneth, that we indeed descend into the water full of sins and defilement, but come up, bearing fruit in our heart, having the fear [of God] and trust in Jesus in our spirit. “And whosoever shall eat of these shall live for ever,”

The Early Church Fathers: Ante-Nicene Fathers Volume 2

Hermas 150
And I said to him, “I should like to continue my questions.” “Speak on,” said he. And I said, “I heard, sir, some teachers maintain that there is no other repentance than that which takes place, when we descended into the water and received remission of our former sins.” He said to me, “That was sound doctrine which you heard; for that is really the case. For he who has received remission of his sins ought not to sin any more, but to live in purity

The Early Church Fathers: Ante-Nicene Fathers Volume 2

Hermas 150
Accordingly, those also who fell asleep received the seal of the Son of God. For,” he continued, “before a man bears the name of the Son of God he is dead; but when he receives the seal he lays aside his deadness, and obtains life. The seal, then, is the water: they descend into the water dead, and they arise alive.

The Early Church Fathers: Ante-Nicene Fathers Volume 1

Justin Martyr 160
Since at our birth we were born without our own knowledge or choice, by our parents coming together, and were brought up in bad habits and wicked training; in order that we may not remain the children of necessity and of ignorance, but may become the children of choice and knowledge, and may obtain in the water the remission of sins formerly committed, there is pronounced over him who chooses to be born again, and has repented of his sins, the name of God the Father and Lord of the universe; he who leads to the laver the person that is to be washed calling him by this name alone.

The Early Church Fathers: Ante-Nicene Fathers Volume 1

Justin Martyr 160
But there is no other [way] than this,—to become acquainted with this Christ, to be washed in the fountain spoken of by Isaiah for the remission of sins; and for the rest, to live sinless lives.”

The Early Church Fathers: Ante-Nicene Fathers Volume 1

Irenaeus 180
Disciple of Polycarp who was a disciple of the apostle John.

In refuting the Gnostics,

And when we come to refute them, we shall show in its fitting-place, that this class of men have been instigated by Satan to a denial of that baptism which is regeneration to God, and thus to a renunciation of the whole [Christian] faith.

The Early Church Fathers: Ante-Nicene Fathers Volume 1

Irenaeus 180
“And dipped himself,” says [the Scripture], “seven times in Jordan.” (2 Ki. 5:14) It was not for nothing that Naaman of old, when suffering from leprosy, was purified upon his being baptized, but [it served] as an indication to us. For as we are lepers in sin, we are made clean, by means of the sacred water and the invocation of the Lord, from our old transgressions; being spiritually regenerated as new-born babes, even as the Lord has declared: “Except a man be born again through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.” (John 3:5)

 

[BornAgain]

Hi Justin,

Actually, it is at baptism that one receives the Spirit. We have an example of this with Jesus' baptism. He went into the water and when He came out of the water the Spirit descended and rested on Him. Peter also said repent and be baptized and you shall received the gift of the Holy Spirit. Paul addresses this in Colossians also.

10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;​

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; (Col 2:10-14 KJV)

Amen...I could not have said it better brother!

 

[Deborah13]

Re: Ephesians 1:13

Yes, I did.

Now what changed when you were baptized in water a second time ? Because I was taught different than the catholic faith. The catholic church I went to never even had a bible in the pews. I never held a bible until I was 45 years old...when I began to read, study and hear that is when I made my conversion.

Lol, I will get this quote thing down soon!

Excuse me please, if I may intrude. If you were RCC all your life you would have been baptised as an infant right? So wouldn't have known Jesus or been born again at that point? So that baptism would not have had any effect?

 

[BornAgain]

Re: Ephesians 1:13

Excuse me please, if I may intrude. If you were RCC all your life you would have been baptised as an infant right? So wouldn't have known Jesus or been born again at that point? So that baptism would not have had any effect?

I was baptized as an infant, yes and was raised catholic my entire life. I did not know Jesus or had knowledge of baptism as an infant....so it did not have any effect.

 

[rrowell]

Re: Ephesians 1:13

Then you go right ahead and keep believing what they teach and KIP will get richer and richer with every cent you give to his one true church.

Now I see what your problem with the Church of Christ is and why you call them a "Cult".

Kip McKean is an abomination to the Lords Church, it is NOT the "Church of Christ", it is too what I would consider a "Cult", it is now the " International Christian Church", they are NOT the same, neither is the "United Church of Christ" that allows gay and every other sinful way in there assembly...

It is a shame and they will pay dearly for defiling the Lords Name.

BTW: it is neither the "Church of Christ Later day saints" they too are NOT the Church of Christ.

 

[Mitspa]

The issue with those who do not believe in healing is not about the Holy Spirit. Its because they do not believe the gospel! If they did they would know that Our Lord Jesus, took upon Himself our sins and sickness. These same people are trying to EARN their way to heaven. The fact that God gave us the VERY BEST He had in Christ has never become real to them.

Rom 8:32

He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?


Rom 14:17

For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
I tell you that until you are "in the Holy Ghost" you are not in the Kingdom of God. - Mitspa:biglol

 

[Mitspa]

The issue with those who do not believe in healing is not about the Holy Spirit. Its because they do not believe the gospel! If they did they would know that Our Lord Jesus, took upon Himself our sins and sickness. These same people are trying to EARN their way to heaven. The fact that God gave us the VERY BEST He had in Christ has never become real to them.

Rom 8:32



He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?


Rom 14:17



For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

I tell you that until you are "in the Holy Ghost" you are not in the Kingdom of God. - Mitspa:biglol

Just as we are baptised into His death" below" we must be baptised into His Life from "above"! consider the "robe of righteousness" the "garments of salvation" no man has these apart from being brought INTO the Holy Spirit, from above!


Isa 61:10

I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.


The Holy Spirit and "The gifts", are that which He adorns His bride! Ye are naked who have not the Holy Spirit! Ye have no oil, to light the lamp!



Mat 25:1


Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
Mat 25:2

And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
Mat 25:3

They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
Mat 25:4

But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
Mat 25:5

While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
Mat 25:6

And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
Mat 25:7

Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
Mat 25:8

And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
Mat 25:9

But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
Mat 25:10

And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
Mat 25:11

Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
Mat 25:12

But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

 

[Eventide]

Re: Ephesians 1:13

Now I see what your problem with the Church of Christ is and why you call them a "Cult".

Kip McKean is an abomination to the Lords Church, it is NOT the "Church of Christ", it is too what I would consider a "Cult", it is now the " International Christian Church", they are NOT the same, neither is the "United Church of Christ" that allows gay and every other sinful way in there assembly...

It is a shame and they will pay dearly for defiling the Lords Name.

BTW: it is neither the "Church of Christ Later day saints" they too are NOT the Church of Christ.

I thought that there was a separate 'church of Christ' from the churches which Kip started... although don't they also mandate water baptism as necessary for salvation ? Not only necessary, but the actual means by which a person is born again...?

IMO False doctrine is false doctrine, regardless of where it originates.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Must one be baptized with the Holy Spirit to be saved?

 

[BornAgain]

Must one be baptized with the Holy Spirit to be saved?

What I have learned is after you are baptized your receive the gift of the Holy Spirit but you can lose that salvation if you turn from God and sin.

 

[farouk]

The repentant thief on the cross wasn't baptised. But he did exercise saving faith.

 

[Butch5]

The repentant thief on the cross wasn't baptised. But he did exercise saving faith.

What is saving faith as opposed to faith?


The thief was still under the Old Covenant also. The New didn't begin until the death of Christ.