A Theological and Exegetical Examination of Holy Spirit Baptism

[farouk]

Ephesians also speaks of 'the washing of water by the word'. This speaks of the cleansing effect of the Scriptures.

 

[smaller]

I stop agreeing with you.

When God in Christ DIVIDED us from the WICKED we were allowed to see and believe in Him. This is in fact the baptism, to be 'released' from the blinding enslavery of the WICKED ONE.

This IS the ONE Baptism that we are all called into. We, when we BELIEVE are DIVIDED from this WORKING spirit, yes SPIRIT of disobedience.

Ephesians 2:2
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

s

 

[Deborah13]

The subject matter is always problematic as the diversity of beliefs and practices amongst sects is obvious.

Post my salvation experience I sought to understand i.e. source these variants, initially stemming from the desire to please God for what I had received. But also to understand why believers, mainly in my own family and in the world at large divided over these matters.

There are 'many' reasons behind every variant.

A simplistic and consistent observation would be that some believe the external action is the fulcrum as opposed to others who believe the matters of baptism to be an external sign of an internal belief. This could apply to baptism by water or Spirit. Some might insist on 'speaking in tongues' for example as an external sign of Spirit baptism.

As it pertains to the one baptism of 1 Cor. 12:13 that baptism is not an external or 'seen' baptism as it is obvious that it is via the Spirit:

1 Cor. 12:
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Obviously the Spirit itself is not a physical tangible person performing any of the above nor handing us a cup of wine.

The baptism itself is Spiritual in nature and as such it is invisible and internal. Same with the drink we are called into. It is not a physical drink. It is internal.

Paul in 1 Corinthians 10, precedent to chapter 12 for example references these same matters of baptism for the Congregation Of Israel having the same 'spiritual' baptism as N.T. believers and we know for the most part that there was no similarity of practice with them as we see in the N.T. in the external actions and signs. There were no 'commands' to externally water baptize or to drink wine after some fashion:

1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink:

for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

By nature these matters are in fact Spiritual and as Spiritual they are in fact also INTERNAL by nature. No unbeliever for example is going to benefit by merely exercising 'external actions' of water immersion or mimicking verbal gibberish as there is no Spiritual accompaniment.

The external actions in and of themselves does not equate to 'an internal automatic change.'

I might even say that if the Spiritual or internal action has already transpired, then the external emphasis takes a vastly secondary seat to the internal matters. This too was shown in Acts 10 by the household of Cornelius, a non Jew, and the initial expression of the extension of salvation unto the Gentiles.

The actual 'internal change' had long prior transpired within Cornelius:

1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band, 2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.
3 He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.
4 And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.

Peter even showed his own prior ignorance of the matters of legal adherence being relegated solely to 'external' or fleshly Jews via the Law:

28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Peter recognized that these matters were INTERNAL regardless of the nationality of man and that these folk of the Cornelius household had been internally touched by God in Christ, and did so by report of their actions and statements, showing they had already in fact been 'internally changed' by Gods Spirit, though they did not know Christ as the external Image and Expression of God Himself.

34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

If any person has been led internally by God to fear/revere Him, and to work righteousness, they are in fact already ACCEPTED by God Himself having been DRAWN IN by the Spirit of God in Christ within them.

The external actions are at that point expressions of this internal change, but internally they were already JOINED to God via God Himself lighting them within.

Before Cornelius had hands laid on him, before baptism in tongues and in water, he was ALREADY ACCEPTED into the household of faith in God in Christ by the direct actions of The Spirit within him.

At that point of understanding all of these 'external actions' should not diminish what the Spirit has already done and in fact can NOT diminish what God in them has done as it has in fact already been DONE by God in them.

Those who then go past this fact and divide believers based on their required 'external action sets' would seem in my eyes to be going against the grain (speaking allegorically) by turning these matters into mere 'customs' of external exercises not dissimilar to fleshly circumcision.

enjoy!

smaller

Clear, percise, to the point. Amen and Amen

 

[BornAgain]

When God in Christ DIVIDED us from the WICKED we were allowed to see and believe in Him. This is in fact the baptism, to be 'released' from the blinding enslavery of the WICKED ONE.

This IS the ONE Baptism that we are all called into. We, when we BELIEVE are DIVIDED from this WORKING spirit, yes SPIRIT of disobedience.

Ephesians 2:2
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

s

I have been as open and forthright as I can be and answered all questions as honestly as possible. Why can't you give me an answer on John 3:5?

 

[smaller]

Ephesians also speaks of 'the washing of water by the word'. This speaks of the cleansing effect of the Scriptures.

 

[BornAgain]

That will not save you.

 

[smaller]

I have been as open and forthright as I can be and answered all questions as honestly as possible. Why can't you give me an answer on John 3:5?

All people who are born on earth are BORN spiritually BLIND and enslaved.

Yet the spirit God provided for LIFE to man did in fact come from God to begin with.

Some are called in this present life into HIS SPIRITUAL LIFE.

This is the ONE BAPTISM, when we are 'washed' to 'see' and 'believe.'

At that point it is God Himself who has shown Himself IN US.

Philippians 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

s

 

[smaller]

That will not save you.

John 15:3
Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

And if a person does not see or believe this, THIS is their condition:

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

No believer in TRUTH will see just the blinded person.

They will see in TRUTH that there is a PERSON and there is the 'god of this world' who has them presently ENSLAVED and BLINDED.

There is the Spiritual Eye.

s

 

[BornAgain]

That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, Eph 5:26 (KJV)

Christ died, gave himself up that he might sanctify the church and perfect it. [The sanctification of the church is the purpose of the grace of God. It was God's purpose "before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love" and the mission of Jesus Christ in the world was to that end; this was the object of his death on the cross. In his prayer for his disciples, on the night in which he was betrayed, Jesus said: "Sanctify them in the truth: thy word is truth... . And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth." John 17:17,19

having cleansed it by the washing of water—This refers to the forgiveness of sins, according to the word of God. Commentators almost without exception understand "by the washing of water" to refer to baptism. This unity of sentiment is very decisive. It was the washing with water with which the Ephesian Christians were familiar, and which could not fail to occur to them as the washing intended. Besides, nothing more is here attributed to baptism than is attributed to it in many other places in the word of God. Jesus in the commission said: "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved" Mark 16:16. to the convicted multitude on the day of Pentecost, Peter said: "repent, ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins" Acts 2:38, and Ananias said to Saul: "Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins" Acts 22:16; and many other passages testify the same thing.

with the word,-Peter says: "Having been begotten again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, through the word of God, which liveth and abideth." 1 Pet 1:23. And James says: "Of his own will he brought us forth by the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures." James 1:18. In these passages the "word of God," or "the word of truth," is the instrument of regeneration. God's will is the origin of it. Paul said to the Corinthians: "For though ye have ten thousand tutors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I begat you through the gospel." 1 Cor 4:15. He regards the gospel in the same attitude that James and Peter represent it. The gospel is here the seed, the instrument of conversion of the Corinthians. Of the Gentiles Peter said that God "made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith." Acts 15:9. To the Thessalonians Paul said: "God chose you from the beginning unto salvation in sanctification of the Spirit belief of the truth: whereunto he called you through our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ." 2 Thess 2:13,14. Here again the belief of the truth is the instrument of sanctification and salvation. Whether we call it the truth, the word, the word of God, the gospel, it is called the seed, the incorruptible seed of the new birth by which the sinner is begotten, sanctified, purified, and saved.

Here we are, full circle into baptism, no matter which way you want to spin it, it all comes down to the truth.

 

[smaller]

Here we are, full circle into baptism, no matter which way you want to spin it, it all comes down to the truth.

If any persons intention is to ETERNALLY KILL another believer over physical water, they in fact have had what is IN THEM revealed already and such know NOTHING of ONE BAPTISM of LIFE.

s

 

[BornAgain]

Ephesians also speaks of 'the washing of water by the word'. This speaks of the cleansing effect of the Scriptures.

Eph 5:26
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,



Nothing more is here attributed to baptism than is attributed to it in many other places in the word of God. Jesus in the commission said: "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved" Mark 16:16.

 

[BornAgain]

If any persons intention is to ETERNALLY KILL another believer over physical water, they in fact have had what is IN THEM revealed already and such know NOTHING of ONE BAPTISM of LIFE.

s

Who's intention is it to kill another? It is not the water that has the power, it is the obedience to Christ that has the power, a submission, an obedience to God's command.

 

[smaller]

Who's intention is it to kill another? It is not the water that has the power, it is the obedience to Christ that has the power, a submission, an obedience to God's command.

Every one of you who claim that a person in whom God in Christ has called into HIS BODY and then seeks to burn them alive forever for NON-FULL IMMERSION BAPTISM in physical water has in fact turned the Law of The Spirit of LIFE into THE LETTER of DEATH to those called into HIS LIFE.

It is not one whit different than the BLINDED JEWS who demanded skin be cut from private parts.

The 'real' circumcision is also INTERNAL and SPIRITUAL just as is BAPTISM.

But blinded people turn these matters into DESTRUCTION when they are only meant for and to show ONE THING.

HIS LIFE IN THEM.

s

 

[BornAgain]

Every one of you who claim that a person in whom God in Christ has called into HIS BODY and then seeks to burn them alive forever for NON-FULL IMMERSION BAPTISM in physical water has in fact turned the Law of The Spirit of LIFE into THE LETTER of DEATH to those called into HIS LIFE.

It is not one whit different than the BLINDED JEWS who demanded skin be cut from private parts.

The 'real' circumcision is also INTERNAL and SPIRITUAL just as is BAPTISM.

But blinded people turn these matters into DESTRUCTION when they are only meant for and to show ONE THING.

HIS LIFE IN THEM.

s

smaller, I am not saying that...I am saying what the bible says. I don't want to argue with you but if you can show me where I am wrong then show me, not with your words but show me where scripture is wrong that I have stated.

 

[smaller]

smaller, I am not saying that...I am saying what the bible says. I don't want to argue with you but if you can show me where I am wrong then show me, not with your words but show me where scripture is wrong that I have stated.

Every person who practices condemning other believers does so under the guise of 'not me but God.'

If anyone uses 'external physical obedience' actions or in this case 'no full immersion' to DENIGRATE faith in Christ that PRE-EXISTS such actions, their intention is factually to potentially eternally kill such believers by that promotion. Every 'division' within Christianity has such practices to herd up believers, to divide them and to brand them LIKE CATTLE with their SECT as the owners.

And yes, many of you in this thread use that practice unto CONDEMNATION and 'self justifications' because that is what your SECT sold you. All in the 'Name and Word' of God, of course.

And completely in defiance of WHAT GOD HAS ALREADY DONE in those called into ONE BAPTISM by faith through belief in Christ.

s

 

[BornAgain]

Every person who practices condemning other believers does so under the guise of 'not me but God.'

If anyone uses 'external physical obedience' actions or in this case 'no full immersion' to DENIGRATE faith in Christ that PRE-EXISTS such actions, their intention is factually to potentially eternally kill such believers by that promotion. Every 'division' within Christianity has such practices to herd up believers, to divide them and to brand them LIKE CATTLE with their SECT as the owners.

And yes, many of you in this thread use that practice unto CONDEMNATION and 'self justifications' because that is what your SECT sold you. All in the 'Name and Word' of God, of course.

And completely in defiance of WHAT GOD HAS ALREADY DONE in those called into ONE BAPTISM by faith through belief in Christ.

s

You are blaming me for God's Words. There is going to be a separation, not cattle but sheep's and goats. You choose what side of the farm you want to be on.

 

[smaller]

You are blaming me for God's Words. There is going to be a separation, not cattle but sheep's and goats. You choose what side of the farm you want to be on.

John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life

MANY intentions from there are ENTIRELY and SOLELY unto condemning these same.

And in that their own heart shows what is really inside of them. Pews are full of internal killers.

s

 

[BornAgain]

John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life

MANY intentions from there are ENTIRELY and SOLELY unto condemning these same.

And in that their own heart shows what is really inside of them. Pews are full of internal killers.

s

I don't condemn you and I think I have justified my heart and have been honest. This is an apologetic and theology forum. not a tell all counseling session.

 

[Eventide]

REALITY

Many years ago I was in the church of Christ for a short time and it was their ridiculous claims concerning water baptism which resulted in me leaving that assembly.

I was told that they are the one true church.

I was told that my baptism in another assembly of believers didn't count, so I was baptized again in their assembly just to be obedient to what they taught...

Then the final straw was a movie in which they clearly taught that those who were not baptized in their assembly would burn in hell for ever..

This is reality people.. this is what actually happened to me.. and many people were saying AMEN at the top of their voices as if this was the Spirit of God.. burning people for ever because they were not baptized in the church of Christ.. their so called one true church.

 

[smaller]

You are blaming me for God's Words. There is going to be a separation, not cattle but sheep's and goats. You choose what side of the farm you want to be on.

Anyone in whom God HONESTLY abides will also see they do in fact do both sheep works and goat works. That they do both GOOD and BAD.

These are what I might term 'the honest believers.'

There are many who think themselves only SHEEP. Real sheep are HONEST sheep.

Goats say they are ONLY SHEEP when they are in fact the opposite, not speaking truthfully.

s