Am I saved; or am I fooling myself?

[jgredline]

Re: reply

I know I am in the minority here, but I lerarned much at Rhema and we didn't study about things like Reformed Christianity, calvanists Thelogy, and other teachers you bring before me. We just studied the Bible.


May God bless, golfjack

Well jack, what you have presented is simply your opinion...

I don't understand why you took the cheap shot at me, but its cool. I can take it.....There is alot of things and heresies that I could point out about Rhema and Keneth Haggin...but lets keep the cheap shots out and continue with the discussion..

 

[jgredline]

Those of you who don't see conditional security the way I do are of your father the devil.

:-D : :bday:

: :-D

 

[golfjack]

reply

Well, Jg. I will be happy to debate in the debate section any day of the week about Kenneth Hagin. Besides that, I didn't take a cheap shot at you. If it was reformed Christianity that bothered you, you must know by now, I just don't like their Thelogy. Talk about cheap shots, What about you and others who attack Word of Faith people?


May God bless, golfjack

 

[jgredline]

Hi Folks
Seeing that this thread has taken a differant route, I have decided to start another thread on ''Can true Christians loose thier salvation....

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... 247#308247

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... 247#308247

I would like to get this thread back on topic......

 

[jgredline]

Re: reply

Well, Jg. I will be happy to debate in the debate section any day of the week about Kenneth Hagin. Besides that, I didn't take a cheap shot at you. If it was reformed Christianity that bothered you, you must know by now, I just don't like their Thelogy. Talk about cheap shots, What about you and others who attack Word of Faith people?


May God bless, golfjack

Jack
I gladly accept your challenge in the debate forum regarding kenneth haggin and wof teachings.... Start the thread....
It should be fun....

 

[stranger]

The cruelest deception

Hi jgredline,

Your tread question : Am I saved, or am I fooling myself? reminded me of something I read by John Owen. This is not verbatim but essentially he said: the cruellest deception is when a man knows the gospel and thinks because he knows the gospel that he is saved. I appreciate how expressions such as 'saving knowledge' attempt to address this problem - but the deception is, I would say, rampant.

In Christ: Stranger

 

[MrVersatile48]

Judas was an example of those who 'HAD' their names in the book of Life...then, had their names removed later.

As Potluck quoted - (John 6 I think) - Jesus knew who were NOT believers, inc who would betray Him

Coupled with the fact that Judas was revealed as a thief - (when he said that the costly ointment poured on Jesus' feet coulda been sold) - makes it kinda sure that Judas tagged along to be treasurer & steal

"Jesus did not entrust Himself to men, for He knew what was in their hearts"

Hope that helps!

Actually, it's amazing timing, as I came in with this Word 4 Today - having prayed for guidance where to put it & already felt strongly in my spirit that it would fit here:-

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If your brother sins...

If a 'brother' or 'sister' in Christ continues to sin, what then?

__________________

But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one not to eat.

1 Corinthians 5:11 KJV

__________________

Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted.

Galatians 6:1 NIV

__________________

If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be conrimed. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

Matthew 18:15-17 NASB

__________________

Therefore let any one who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall. No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your strength, but with the temptation will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.

1 Corinthians 10:12-13 RSV

__________________

Thanks be unto God for His wonderful gift:
Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God
is the object of our faith; the only faith
that saves is faith in Him.



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Through the Bible in a Year - Readings for December 3
December 3: Galatians 6, Ezekiel 2-3, Psalm 149

Click Here for the complete schedule

Or Copy and paste this link into your browser:
http://www.arcamax.com/ttb-yr.html



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Meditation 12/3 - 12/9: Fight the good fight 2 Tim 4:2-8 KJV
Fight the good fight

Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.

I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:

Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

2 Timothy 4:2-8 KJV

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I haven't yet read pages 11 & 12 & may only have time now to check the posts above this to see how God's Providence 'works all things together for the good of those who love God'

Back later, DV

Ian

 

[MrVersatile48]

WOW: I didn't know there'd be only one post in page 12 above mine - & what assurance of God's guiding, despite noise in this library!

& that assurance is to help other readers, yes?

Ian

 

[MrVersatile48]

Just time to post this timely Word 4 Today too:-

A Change of Mind
2 Timothy 1:1--12

"... your sincere faith, which first lived in your grandmother Lois and in your mother Eunice ..." (v. 5)

Yesterday we said that there are two types of entry into the Christian life -- sudden and gradual. Paul the apostle had one of the most sudden and dramatic conversions in Christian history, yet Paul's disciple Timothy does not seem to have had a similar experience. We cannot tell for sure, but Timothy's coming to faith, a process apparently greatly influenced by his grandmother and mother, seems to have been much more prolonged.

We said also (and some may have found this surprising) that without a clear understanding of repentance, and all that it entails, there can be no successful continuance in the Christian life. So what is repentance and why is it vitally important? The Greek word for repentance, metanoia, means "a change of mind." But a change of mind about what? About where life is found. Prior to coming to Christ our minds are shot through with the idea that life depends on such things as self-sufficiency, self-management, and ego-building.

The Bible confronts this self-centered approach to living and says that for our lives to work the way God designed them, the ego must be marginal and not central. In other words, Christ must be central, and the ego revolves around Him just as the planets revolve around the sun. This is quite a radical thought for any mind to grapple with, but be sure of this -- if there is no acceptance of it, the soul will not go on to experience a deep and developing relationship with God. No change of mind about where life is to be found -- no spiritual progress. It is as simple as that.

Prayer:

O Father, help me examine my heart and decide just who is central in my life -- You or me. Show me even more clearly how I can be more Christ-centered and less ego-centered. In the Name of Your Son I ask it. Amen.

For Further Study

Gal. 2:20; Rom. 6:6; Col. 2:1--20

1. In what graphic way did Paul describe repentance?
2. What concern did Paul have for the Colossians?

Back Mon, DV

Ian

 

[jgredline]

Re: The cruelest deception

Hi jgredline,

Your tread question : Am I saved, or am I fooling myself? reminded me of something I read by John Owen. This is not verbatim but essentially he said: the cruellest deception is when a man knows the gospel and thinks because he knows the gospel that he is saved. I appreciate how expressions such as 'saving knowledge' attempt to address this problem - but the deception is, I would say, rampant.

In Christ: Stranger

Starnger
Yes, and thank you very much for your post...I have been working another post that I have not finished yet...It will be on evidence that you are a child of God and will affirm your salvation.....

As for the part that struck me in your post above, there are a few ''itellectuals here'' as well that do not know Christ....and my Prayer is that they will examine themselves.....and see.


Ian
I am off to church now so I will read your post when I get back,
Blessings,
jg

 

[golfjack]

reply

How do we know we are truly saved? This has been the question of many. The answer is found in Romans 10:9-10: that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and the mouth confession is made unto salvation. These 2 verses should settle the debate about this issue. The problem with some is that they have never been taught faith, and this leaves some with many false ideas. Folks, we have to preach like Jesus while on earth. We see in Luke 4, He preached, taught, and healed. In other words, the Church has done a poor job of preaching and teaching the message for many years. One must have faith to be saved and healed. This is what Jesus did when the Spirit of the Lord came upon Him. And some are critical of Word of Faith Preachers, when their real problem is themselves.


May God bless, golfjack

 

[jgredline]

Re: reply

How do we know we are truly saved? This has been the question of many. The answer is found in Romans 10:9-10: that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and the mouth confession is made unto salvation. These 2 verses should settle the debate about this issue.

May God bless, golfjack

Jack
If I may add to this Romans 8:18 nkjv
18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

One of the proofs of being saved is that ''ALL CHRISTIANS WILL SUFFER'' while here on earth....This is spoken throughout the scriptures...I will expound on this a little later...


Romans 8:29-30 nkjv
29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

I was going to write something on this passage, but woould do it an injustice.. Here is what McGee, J. V. says about this passage....

“For†refers back to verse 28 to remind us that he is not talking about anybody being elected to be lost, but he is speaking of “the called,†the predestined ones. Predestination never has any reference to the lost. You will never find it used in connection with them. If you ever hear someone talk about being predestined to be lost, you know he is not being scriptural.
Predestination means that, when God saves you, He is going to see you through. Whom He foreknew, He predestinated, and whom He predestinated, He called, and whom He called, He justified, and whom He justified, He glorified. In other words, this amazing section is on sanctificationâ€â€yet Paul does not even mention being sanctified. Why? Because sanctification is the work of God in the heart and life of the believer. This is God’s eternal purpose. It just simply means this: When the Lordâ€â€who is the Great Shepherd of the Sheep, the Good Shepherd of the Sheep, and Chief Shepherd of the Sheepâ€â€starts out with one hundred sheep, He’s going to come home with one hundred sheep; He will not lose one of them. You may remember that our Lord gave a parable about this, recorded in Luke 15. There was a shepherd, a good shepherd, who represents the Lord Jesus. One little old sheep got lost, got away. You would think He might say, “Well, let him go. We’ve got ninety-nine of them safe in the fold. That’s a good percentage.†Anyone raising sheep knows that if you get to market with a little over fifty percent of those that are born, you’re doing well. But this is an unusual shepherd. He is not satisfied with ninety-nine. If He justifies one hundred sheep, He’s going to glorify one hundred sheep. I’ll make this rather personal. Someday He will be counting them inâ€â€Ã¢â‚¬Å“One, two, three, four, five … ninety-seven, ninety-eight, ninety-nineâ€â€where in the world is Vernon McGee? Well, it looks like he didn’t make it. We’ll let him go because a great many people didn’t think he was going to make it anyway.†My friend, thank God He won’t let him go. That shepherd is going after him. The doctrine of election means that the Lord will be coming home with one hundred sheep! This is not a frightful doctrine; it is a wonderful doctrine. It means that Vernon McGee’s going to be there; and it means you are going to be there, my friend, if you have trusted Christ. This is a most comforting doctrine in these uncertain days in which we live.


McGee, J. V.

 

[Jay T]

Re: reply

Why don't we try to examine Hebrews 10:26-29.

4:4 "But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God".

Verse 6 says, for if we sin wilfilly after that we have received the knowledge of the truth..... That sin couldn't just be referring to any sin, for if it was referred to any sin, then 1 John 1:9 wouldn't be true. 1 Jiohn 1:9 promises us that if we confess our sins, God is faithful and just to forgive us and to cleanse us of all unrighteousness.

BUT if a person continues to commit sin, then how are they 'cleansed' if they keep doing it ?
AND....'UNrighteousness is.....NOT KEEPING God's commandments, because Righteousness is defined in the Bible as.....
Psalms 119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments [are] righteousness.

Therefore, Hebrews 10:26 is talkming about the sin of rejecting Christ.

Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

There's a principle for all Christians, of course. But in New Testament days, the Jerwish Christians were tempted to go back into Judaism because of the difficulties of following Christ. Many were cut off from their families, and were having it rough, not only financially, but also becuse of great persecution.

To be a Christian....WILL ALWAYS....bring on persecution !
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great [is] your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
The True Christian's walk with God, is NEVER GOING TO BE EASY....... 2 Timothy 3:12 "Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution".
[quoote]
Some of them were tempted to go back to their old life of Judaism, but to do that they would have to deny that Christ is the Son of God. Hebrews 10:29 says the unpardonable sin is trodding under foot the Son of God. [/quote] ANY SIN, unconfessed and not corrected....is the unpardonable sin......because the person never asked forgiveness iof it !

To deny that Christ is the Son of God is the sin Hebrews 10 is referring to. It's the same as turning away from Him, rejecting Him saying, I don't want Jesus anymore.

1 JOhn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world.
2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

The Bible is saying that if mature believers ( Heb 6: 5, having tasted the good Word of God) willfully and deliberately deny Christ, there isn't any more sacrifice for their sins.

Therefore, the sin the Bible is addressing here is denying Christ, not some other sin a Christian may commit in his lifetime.

Matthew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
When Jesus said: 'go and sin no more", (John 5:14 & 8:11).
THAT IS SALVATION !
To be freed, from committing any more sins.

But one of the areas where Satan has wreaked great havoc in the Body of Christ is in the area of the unpardonable sin.

satan knows that if a person commits just one little sin, and does not bother to ask forgiveness of that sin.....HE'S GOT THEM!

The Bible has plainly told us that GOD will NOT ALLOW any person who commits sin wilfully, will ever get into heaven !

 

[Oscar3]

Jay T
you need to stop using the clear word bible...

 

[unred typo]

Jay T
you need to stop using the clear word bible...

Why, Oscar? What did JayT say that was wrong?
:smt102

 

[Jay T]

Why, Oscar? What did JayT say that was wrong?
:smt102

You'll have to excuse Oscar, as he makes things up for the sole purpose of causing trouble.

I only use the King James Bible, when I quote anything scriptural.

 

[MrVersatile48]

There is hammering going on in this library, so do forgive my forgetting who made the point about 'those who continue to sin'

& how many Greek words distinguish different aspects of sin

John is well known for using words rich in meaning & for subtleties which are hard to translate into English

I'm sure that explains apparent contradictions

To use the picture of archery, (that comes up in different Greek words for sin), God knows when we aim to please God but fall short of the mark

& when we just don't care about God's aims or attempt to share them, but just wilfully stampede across His guidelines, that are intended for our good, & choose to shoot at Him, to hurt Him in deliberate rebellion, & not stand shoulder to shoulder with Him & shoot against the enemy of souls

I think Selwyn Hughes' word 4 today fits well here:-

December 7

Agreeing with God

Isaiah 30:12--21
"In repentance and rest is your salvation ..." (v. 15)

A definition of repentance I once heard someone use and which I like very much is this: "Repentance is agreeing with God." When we repent, we adopt the attitude that God is right and we are wrong.

When you think about it, there is very little point in disagreeing with God over anything because being God, He is always right.

So many problems people have brought to me during the years I have been involved in Christian counseling were rooted in a difficulty they had in their relationship with God. Time and again I have heard people say things such as:

" But God can't really expect that of me."

" Isn't God being too hard on me in wanting me to yield to Him on this?"

" Sometimes God seems to forget that we are human."

What underlies all these statements?

A difficulty in believing that God is right in everything He says and does. This is why whenever I hear such statements I ask people to tell me something about how they entered the Christian life.

Almost always I find that they never underwent a radical repentance when they first became Christians. Because they never knew what it was to agree with God (that is, fully repent) when they first came into the Christian life, subsequently they seemed to want to argue with Him (or at least raise objections) over any issue that appeared to threaten their self-centeredness.

Our wills have to capitulate to God's will if we are to develop a deep relationship with the Almighty. And the best moment to understand this is at the moment of conversion.

Prayer:

Father, forgive me if my response to Your challenge is one of resistance and argumentation. If my ego is not at Your feet then help me put it there today. For the sake of Your Son who gave His life for me. In His Name I pray. Amen.

For Further Study

Phil. 3:1--8; Rom. 6:2--11; Col. 3:3

1. What attitude did Paul take?
2. How did he describe the result?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

God bless!

Ian

 

[Jay T]

Prayer:

My understanding of Prayer includes this Bible verse.....
Proverbs 28:9 "He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer [shall be] abomination".

 

[Oscar3]

My understanding of Prayer includes this Bible verse.....
Proverbs 28:9 "He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer [shall be] abomination".

The Bible was written by 36 authors, which includes:
A Lawyer, Prophets, Fishermen, a Doctor, A Tax Collector, Kings, and Missionaries.

The Bible spans some 1600 years.

There were no Chapters, no comas, no numbered verses, in the original writings.
http://www.iofbk.com/id29.html

Jay T
I know your a bible expert and all but you may want to correct this. You teach enough hersey as it is.

 

[Jay T]

Jay T
I know your a bible expert and all but you may want to correct this. You teach enough hersey as it is.

Why do you hate God so much ?

You pretend to be a Christian, yet you constantly rebell against what God says .....WHY ?