An honest Calvinist view of Total Depravity.

[brightfame52]

Being grounded in the doctrine of Christ is all that will matter on that Day.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9





JLB

Being grounded in the Doctrine of Christ would entail being grounded in mans total depravity.

 

[JLB]

Of course. Why do you ask such a silly question, to which you would know the answer if you've ever read anything I've posted in this thread?

Well you have people on here, such as brightfame who teaches otherwise.

He teaches that people become saved, born again, regenerated first, before they hear and believe the Gospel.


When I ask him how a person becomes born again before they hear and believe, he can’t answer.








JLB

 

[JLB]

Being grounded in the Doctrine of Christ would entail being grounded in mans total depravity.

Please provide the scripture where Jesus or His Apostles used the term “Total Depravity”.


Man is spiritually dead in trespasses and sin and must hear and believe the Gospel to become saved.

How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? Romans 10:14




Only those who hear and believe the Gospel message of Jesus Christ are saved.



JLB

 

[brightfame52]

Please provide the scripture where Jesus or His Apostles used the term “Total Depravity”.


Man is spiritually dead in trespasses and sin and must hear and believe the Gospel to become saved.

How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? Romans 10:14




Only those who hear and believe the Gospel message of Jesus Christ are saved.



JLB

Tulip is the Gospel of Gods Grace, plenty of scripture has been provided you. Haven't you ever read some who have provided scripture for TULIP Truth before ?

 

[brightfame52]

Well you have people on here, such as brightfame who teaches otherwise.

He teaches that people become saved, born again, regenerated first, before they hear and believe the Gospel.


When I ask him how a person becomes born again before they hear and believe, he can’t answer.








JLB

Only those born of God can hear the words of God, if not they hear them not John 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Now are you disagreeing with Jesus here ?

 

[JLB]

Tulip is the Gospel of Gods Grace, plenty of scripture has been provided you. Haven't you ever read some who have provided scripture for TULIP Truth before ?

Please explain how a person is saved, born again, regenerated without ever hearing and believing the Gospel.


TULIP is just another doctrine of man.

 

[JLB]

Only those born of God can hear the words of God, if not they hear them not John 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Now are you disagreeing with Jesus here ?

Please explain how people are born again without ever hearing of Jesus Christ or His message of salvation.

 

[brightfame52]

Please explain how a person is saved, born again, regenerated without ever hearing and believing the Gospel.


TULIP is just another doctrine of man.

If you believed the Gospel you would know, read about TULIP

 

[brightfame52]

Please explain how people are born again without ever hearing of Jesus Christ or His message of salvation.

Already explained, one must be of God in order to hear Gods word Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

 

[JLB]

If you believed the Gospel you would know, read about TULIP

I have the scriptures.

I don’t need Calvinism.


Please explain to us how a person becomes born again without hearing and believing the Gospel?


How can a person believe in Jesus and thus be saved, if they have never heard about Him?




JLB

 

[JLB]

Already explained, one must be of God in order to hear Gods word Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

How does one come to be “of God”, to be born again, without ever hearing the Gospel of Jesus Christ?




JLB

 

[brightfame52]

I have the scriptures.

I don’t need Calvinism.


Please explain to us how a person becomes born again without hearing and believing the Gospel?


How can a person believe in Jesus and thus be saved, if they have never heard about Him?




JLB

You have read Tulip Truths before Im sure, however unfortunate for you , you reject it as Truth of the Gospel, thats on you

 

[brightfame52]

How does one come to be “of God”, to be born again, without ever hearing the Gospel of Jesus Christ?




JLB

Jesus tells us, one comes to be of God by being born of God the Spirit, so unless one is Born of God they cant hear the words of God Jn 8:47

Jn 3:5-8

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

 

[JLB]

You have read Tulip Truths before Im sure, however unfortunate for you , you reject it as Truth of the Gospel, thats on you

Why do you believe scripture is not sufficient to give us understanding and truth.

You have chosen to turn to the teaching of Mr Calvin instead of scripture.

And now we see you exalt the teaching of John Calvin to the place of scripture.


That is why you reject the scripture in favor of the doctrine of a man; John Calvin.




JLB

 

[JLB]

Jesus tells us, one comes to be of God by being born of God the Spirit, so unless one is Born of God they cant hear the words of God Jn 8:47

Jn 3:5-8

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Keep reading…

Being born again requires that a person hear and believe in Jesus Christ.

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:14-16

• whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

Again please tell how a person is born again before they hear and believe?


Your claim is a person must be born again first, before they can believe.


How can they be born again, without ever hearing and believing in Christ?


Please explain if you can.


It has become glaringly evident you have no idea what you are talking about.





JLB

 

[brightfame52]

Why do you believe scripture is not sufficient to give us understanding and truth.

You have chosen to turn to the teaching of Mr Calvin instead of scripture.

And now we see you exalt the teaching of John Calvin to the place of scripture.


That is why you reject the scripture in favor of the doctrine of a man; John Calvin.




JLB

Tulip Truths are based on scripture, thats why they're the Gospel and unfortunately you oppose the Gospel

 

[brightfame52]

Keep reading…

Being born again requires that a person hear and believe in Jesus Christ.

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:14-16

• whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

Again please tell how a person is born again before they hear and believe?


Your claim is a person must be born again first, before they can believe.


How can they be born again, without ever hearing and believing in Christ?


Please explain if you can.


It has become glaringly evident you have no idea what you are talking about.





JLB

Only those born of God Hear the words of God , thats Jesus own words Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

The prerequisite to hear the Gospel and believe, is one has to be born of God.

 

[brightfame52]

By nature, we as people in a fallen depraved nature dont have the Love of God in us, even if we are very sincere and religious' towards God as these were when Jesus said unto them Jn 5:40-44

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

41 I receive not honour from men.

42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.

43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

Thats the unregenerate man, void of the Love of God, dead to God spiritually.

 

[brightfame52]

This scripture describes man, us by nature regardless of how moral and upright, and religous we may be, Col 1:21

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

Our good religious endeavor's, as sincere as they could be, were nothing but wicked dead works, being that we were alienated from God.

 

[brightfame52]

Eph 2:1

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins:

Dead - “nekrous” - lifeless, useless, dead

trespasses - offenses - same word used in Eph 1:7 (sins)

Before a person is saved/regenerated, they are spiritually dead. This means they are dead to the things of God and dead people are totally incapable of resurrecting themselves to any type of spiritual life. Those who advance free will never begin at the point of a person being spiritually dead. This is the beginning point for every person who has ever been regenerated/ saved. There is no such thing taught in Scripture that a person has the ability or even enough light to understand the Gospel. 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Draw here represents being regenerate/saved