Bible Study ARE WE BORN WITH A SIN NATURE

[OzSpen]

I'm not talking about those who are Christ own and their children. I am talking about the enemies of God and their children. Big difference between who are God's own and who are not no matter what the age is.

FHG,

Who was Jesus addressing when he said: 'Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these' (Matt 19:14 NIV).

This is the context:

13 Then people brought little children to Jesus for him to place his hands on them and pray for them. But the disciples rebuked them.​

​

14 Jesus said, ‘Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.’ 15 When he had placed his hands on them, he went on from there (Matt 19:13-15 NIV).​

Jesus didn't say, 'Let the little Jewish children come to me ... for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these who are Jewish'.

What Jesus said applies to ALL children, not the children of Christians.

Oz

 

[for_his_glory]

FHG,

This was the Master's assessment: 'Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these"' (Matt 19:14 NIV).

Jesus did not say, 'For the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these - except the children of Egyptians, Amalekites, pagans, miscarriages and abortions'.

This evidence, along with King David and the death of his son (2 Sam 12:23 NIV), is strong evidence that all children will enter God's kingdom. This is one hint in the question: 'Will not the Judge of all the earth do what is right?' (Gen 18:25 NIV).

We know God is a merciful, gracious and just Triune God.

This leads to the question of when children move to a point of being responsible for their sins - commonly known as the age of accountability.

Matt 19:14 is the closest I've seen of a biblical text that tells about heaven for children. However, I've not found any specific text that teaches the age of accountability.

Oz

Just because David believed he would see his son again it doesn't state that God told him he would as it was just something he believe and hoped for. Many of us believe and hope for things, but yet they are not absolutes.

You can't use Matthew 19:14 for this as these children Jesus is speaking of were not from the enemies of God like that of the children of the Egyptians, Amalek, Dan and Ephraim or any enemy of God throughout every generation. God's word does not come back to Him void, Hosea 4:6

 

[for_his_glory]

I stated all children would be exempt from damnation due to not having the maturity to be held accountable. I made no separation in regards to children because I do not judge a child by the actions of its parents but when they are of age to be held accountable then yes . Infants born or unborn and children within a certain age range in my opinion are not held to the same standard as one that has the ability to choose whom they shall follow Christ or the enemy. This again is only my opinion and belief.

You have every right to believe how you want, but I can only go by what is written in scripture and if God says he will forget those children then I have to believe they would never come to be His own.

 

[OzSpen]

Just because David believed he would see his son again it doesn't state that God told him he would as it was just something he believe and hoped for. Many of us believe and hope for things, but yet they are not absolutes.

You can't use Matthew 19:14 for this as these children Jesus is speaking of were not from the enemies of God like that of the children of the Egyptians, Amalek, Dan and Ephraim or any enemy of God throughout every generation. God's word does not come back to Him void, Hosea 4:6

So is this passage in the inspired Scripture or not?

20 Then David got up from the ground. After he had washed, put on lotions and changed his clothes, he went into the house of the Lord and worshipped. Then he went to his own house, and at his request they served him food, and he ate.​

​

21 His attendants asked him, ‘Why are you acting in this way? While the child was alive, you fasted and wept, but now that the child is dead, you get up and eat!’​

​

22 He answered, ‘While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept. I thought, “Who knows? The Lord may be gracious to me and let the child live.” 23 But now that he is dead, why should I go on fasting? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me.’​

​

24 Then David comforted his wife Bathsheba, and he went to her and made love to her. She gave birth to a son, and they named him Solomon. The Lord loved him; 25 and because the Lord loved him, he sent word through Nathan the prophet to name him Jedidiah (2 Sam 12:20-25 NIV).​

 

[BondservantRom6:22]

You have every right to believe how you want, but I can only go by what is written in scripture and if God says he will forget those children then I have to believe they would never come to be His own.

13 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in. 14 [g]Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation. Matthew 23:13-14

Jesus was tested by those who knew the law and all that it contained and yet while they could quote scripture they were hollow and void of faith or compassion to their fellow man. They leaned so heavily on their laws and Torah that they missed the one true God in flesh and then crucified him for blasphemy and heresy. The word of God is sufficient for all things however it should not harden the heart.

 

[JLB]

Jesus did say, suffer the little children to come unto me, and as a Godly parent we need to bring our babies to the Lord as we dedicate them to Him and that the whole body of Christ are to help instruct the child in the ways of the Lord, even from the moment they are born so they will not go astray after birth.

The Israelite children were also children of promise as they to would come into the land with their parents and also possess it, Deuteronomy 1:39.

Children not knowing good from evil, are innocent.


Jesus said when we are “converted” we will have become as little children, being innocent.


Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 18:3


This tells me little children do indeed enter the kingdom of heaven.



JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

So is this passage in the inspired Scripture or not?

20 Then David got up from the ground. After he had washed, put on lotions and changed his clothes, he went into the house of the Lord and worshipped. Then he went to his own house, and at his request they served him food, and he ate.​

​

21 His attendants asked him, ‘Why are you acting in this way? While the child was alive, you fasted and wept, but now that the child is dead, you get up and eat!’​

​

22 He answered, ‘While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept. I thought, “Who knows? The Lord may be gracious to me and let the child live.” 23 But now that he is dead, why should I go on fasting? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me.’​

​

24 Then David comforted his wife Bathsheba, and he went to her and made love to her. She gave birth to a son, and they named him Solomon. The Lord loved him; 25 and because the Lord loved him, he sent word through Nathan the prophet to name him Jedidiah (2 Sam 12:20-25 NIV).​

I will go to him, but he will not return to me.

I would only think that David meant that he would see his son again when he is in the New Jerusalem. David and his son would not fall in the category of being enemies of God as God loved him and blessed him with another child named Solomon/Jedidiah.

 

[for_his_glory]

13 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in. 14 [g]Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation. Matthew 23:13-14

Jesus was tested by those who knew the law and all that it contained and yet while they could quote scripture they were hollow and void of faith or compassion to their fellow man. They leaned so heavily on their laws and Torah that they missed the one true God in flesh and then crucified him for blasphemy and heresy. The word of God is sufficient for all things however it should not harden the heart.

Not sure where you are going with this and how it relates to the topic?

 

[for_his_glory]

Children not knowing good from evil, are innocent.


Jesus said when we are “converted” we will have become as little children, being innocent.


Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 18:3


This tells me little children do indeed enter the kingdom of heaven.



JLB

Can you explain what God meant in Hosea 4:6 about also forgetting their children? I can only see it that God does not receive that of his enemies.

 

[PeterJens]

Children not knowing good from evil, are innocent.


Jesus said when we are “converted” we will have become as little children, being innocent.


Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 18:3


This tells me little children do indeed enter the kingdom of heaven.



JLB

No man is innocent. We are born independent from God, in rebellion.
This is sin of position not action. Being dead spiritually we are rejected.

Destruction is our fate as there is nothing to save. Paul talks of children of believers being Holy, so resolving this dilemma. Interestingly I have heared people who say salvation cannot be lost hold all children are saved, which in their belief is not true, because those without faith on coming of age lose their salvation.

Adams sin was to lose walking with God, but gaining knowledge. Our knowledge separate from the Lord corrupts us. You see it everyday.

In children you see the hurt and defence destroy them. Soon sinning against others causes not a flicker of a problem. Our heart state defines our future and our reaction to Jesus.

Chaff can never be saved unless it becomes wheat. Being a child does not make us wheat.

 

[JLB]

Can you explain what God meant in Hosea 4:6 about also forgetting their children? I can only see it that God does not receive that of his enemies.

Hear the word of the Lord,
You children of Israel,
For the Lord brings a charge against the inhabitants of the land:
“There is no truth or mercy
Or knowledge of God in the land.
By swearing and lying,
Killing and stealing and committing adultery,
They break all restraint,
With bloodshed upon bloodshed.
Therefore the land will mourn;
And everyone who dwells there will waste away
With the beasts of the field
And the birds of the air;
Even the fish of the sea will be taken away.
“Now let no man contend, or rebuke another;
For your people are like those who contend with the priest.
Therefore you shall stumble in the day;
The prophet also shall stumble with you in the night;
And I will destroy your mother.
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.
Because you have rejected knowledge,
I also will reject you from being priest for Me;
Because you have forgotten the law of your God,
I also will forget your children.
Hosea 4:1-6


How old are these children, that are mentioned here in verse 6?


I believe the context is about God rejecting them from being priest, and therefore excluding their children as well from being priest.

• My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.Because you have rejected knowledge, I also will reject you from being priest for Me; Because you have forgotten the law of your God, I also will forget your children.

I just don’t see the phrase “I will forget your children”, as meaning, ”I’m sending your children to hell”.


There is an incident in Numbers 16, concerning Korah and the rebellion against Moses and Aaron, whereby Korah, Dathan, and Abiram; with their wives and household including their little children were swallowed up by the earth and went down to hell alive.

However, it doesn’t indicate that the little children who perished physically from that incident, or even the wives, remained in the flames of fire spiritually or went to Abraham’s Bosom.


See Numbers 16:25-33




JLB

 

[WIP]

FHG,

Who was Jesus addressing when he said: 'Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these' (Matt 19:14 NIV).

This is the context:

13 Then people brought little children to Jesus for him to place his hands on them and pray for them. But the disciples rebuked them.​

​

14 Jesus said, ‘Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.’ 15 When he had placed his hands on them, he went on from there (Matt 19:13-15 NIV).​

Jesus didn't say, 'Let the little Jewish children come to me ... for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these who are Jewish'.

What Jesus said applies to ALL children, not the children of Christians.

Oz

I'm not going to debate this one way or another but I would like to offer a thought. In Matthew 19:13-15 Jesus was addressing Jews and the children that were brought to Him were Jewish children, right? If this is so, then when He said, "Heaven belongs to such as these," it could be argued that the "these" He was speaking about could have simply been the Jewish children.

 

[WIP]

Children not knowing good from evil, are innocent.


Jesus said when we are “converted” we will have become as little children, being innocent.


Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 18:3


This tells me little children do indeed enter the kingdom of heaven.



JLB

It could also be argued that the reference to children had nothing to do with their innocence but rather their trusting attitude and behavior. Children trust and depend on their parents for everything including their very lives and are we also not required to trust and depend on God for the same? Just a thought.

 

[JLB]

I have heared people who say salvation cannot be lost hold all children are saved, which in their belief is not true, because those without faith on coming of age lose their salvation.

...because those without faith on coming of age lose their salvation.

I don’t think I quite understand what your saying here.


I personally believe little children who die prematurely before
“coming of age” go to heaven.




JLB

 

[JLB]

It could also be argued that the reference to children had nothing to do with their innocence but rather their trusting attitude and behavior. Children trust and depend on their parents for everything including their very lives and are we also not required to trust and depend on God for the same? Just a thought.

Yes, perhaps.


Maybe innocent is not the right word.

I just see from His statement that being converted, and becoming as little children, indicates to me that little children belong to God.




JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

Hear the word of the Lord,
You children of Israel,
For the Lord brings a charge against the inhabitants of the land:
“There is no truth or mercy
Or knowledge of God in the land.
By swearing and lying,
Killing and stealing and committing adultery,
They break all restraint,
With bloodshed upon bloodshed.
Therefore the land will mourn;
And everyone who dwells there will waste away
With the beasts of the field
And the birds of the air;
Even the fish of the sea will be taken away.
“Now let no man contend, or rebuke another;
For your people are like those who contend with the priest.
Therefore you shall stumble in the day;
The prophet also shall stumble with you in the night;
And I will destroy your mother.
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.
Because you have rejected knowledge,
I also will reject you from being priest for Me;
Because you have forgotten the law of your God,
I also will forget your children.
Hosea 4:1-6


How old are these children, that are mentioned here in verse 6?


I believe the context is about God rejecting them from being priest, and therefore excluding their children as well from being priest.

• My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.Because you have rejected knowledge, I also will reject you from being priest for Me; Because you have forgotten the law of your God, I also will forget your children.

I just don’t see the phrase “I will forget your children”, as meaning, ”I’m sending your children to hell”.


There is an incident in Numbers 16, concerning Korah and the rebellion against Moses and Aaron, whereby Korah, Dathan, and Abiram; with their wives and household including their little children were swallowed up by the earth and went down to hell alive.

However, it doesn’t indicate that the little children who perished physically from that incident, or even the wives, remained in the flames of fire spiritually or went to Abraham’s Bosom.


See Numbers 16:25-33




JLB

God says, I will forget you and your children. There is no age given for these children. God is more specific about the Amalek children as some were only sucklings He commanded to be killed. Would God want His owned killed no matter the age!

Everyone wants to see God as a loving God, which He is, but His judgements are also righteously justified in all He judges.

 

[for_his_glory]

It could also be argued that the reference to children had nothing to do with their innocence but rather their trusting attitude and behavior. Children trust and depend on their parents for everything including their very lives and are we also not required to trust and depend on God for the same? Just a thought.

Exactly, as scripture gives us no absolutes about every child that has ever died whether all will be with the Lord or damned by the Lord as it's His judgement, not ours.

 

[for_his_glory]

...because those without faith on coming of age lose their salvation.

I don’t think I quite understand what your saying here.


I personally believe little children who die prematurely before
“coming of age” go to heaven.




JLB

A baby can not inherit the sin of the parents, but are born with a sin nature. Adams sin was imputed to every one of us as there is none that are righteous, babies included, Romans 5:12-18. Psalms 58:3 says, The wicked are estranged (turn from God) from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies. Who taught a child to lie or be rebellious against their parents? It's that sin nature that causes a child to do this. Psalms 51:5 says, Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. The only thing God gave us at birth was His very breath (spirit) that made us a living soul and it's that breath that goes back to God when we die as he preserves it in judgment until the coming of the Lord, Ecclesiastes 12:7.

Rom 9:11 For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth; 12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Only God has His purpose for those who are born to show His sovereignty that He is God and His judgements are righteous. What ever the elder of the household instills within the child, whether it be good or bad, the child will learn from their elders.

 

[for_his_glory]

Not sure where you are going with this and how it relates to the topic?

BondservantRom6:22
Why would you put a like to my post when I was asking you a question. Without your answer of what you posted in #85 I can only assume you are comparing me to the Pharisees. Please tell me you are not doing that.

 

[BondservantRom6:22]

BondservantRom6:22
Why would you put a like to my post when I was asking you a question. Without your answer of what you posted in #85 I can only assume you are comparing me to the Pharisees. Please tell me you are not doing that.

I will no longer respond to your responses you want a clear scripture telling you specifically that all children go to heaven several people have given you supportive scripture but you want it to be more specific well many questions such as the second coming are not specific black and white some things must be seen with eyes of faith and in this way yes you are much like the pharisees that were given truth and yet they denied bc it didnt fit their way of teaching or knowing or interpretation.