Born Again?

[JohnDB]

So today when we are witnessing we really need to tell people that they need to be a member of a group of Israeli hero’s that had their births foretold, instead of you must be born again?


How does that work with Gentile unbelievers?




JLB

Now you are inventing things...

 

[JLB]

Now you are inventing things...

John, this is what you claim Jesus said to Nicodemus, and that born again was an error.


That Jesus really said “born from above”.


Then you went on to explain that you have explained 25 times to me that “born from above” refers to a member of a group of Israeli hero’s that had their births foretold.




JLB

 

[JohnDB]

John, this is what you claim Jesus said to Nicodemus, and that born again was an error.


That Jesus really said “born from above”.


Then you went on to explain that you have explained 25 times to me that “born from above” refers to a member of a group of Israeli hero’s that had their births foretold.




JLB

Yes I have said this... welcome to the party.
You have finally got it.

The proofs are long and deep.

 

[JLB]

Yes I have said this... welcome to the party.
You have finally got it.

The proofs are long and deep.

The proof that you claim we need to tell people to be a member of a group of Israeli hero’s that had their births foretold, rather than telling them to be “born again”.


You can bet I will never tell anyone this.


I will tell them they must be born again.



You can do what you think is right.





JLB

 

[JohnDB]

The proof that you claim we need to tell people to be a member of a group of Israeli hero’s that had their births foretold, rather than telling them to be “born again”.


You can bet I will never tell anyone this.


I will tell them they must be born again.



You can do what you think is right.





JLB

This story has nothing to do with salvation...it has everything to do with being called and chosen...

And I've never told anyone that they need to be born again. It's overly trite and misused to the point of ridiculousness.

I do tell them that they need to have a personal relationship with God...and the results of that relationship will make them a new creation in Christ.

 

[GodsGrace]

I understand that this is the most common understanding.

I also believe that when someone believes in Christ they are a new creation, the old is gone the new has come.

But anothen means "above". Just like the Aramaic poetry said in the Syriac manuscripts. (The literal means "head" which is a euphemism for "up".)

This passage from the Gospel of John is not about the regenerative work of the Holy Spirit but a conversation about being "Called" and "Chosen"...and what that really means.

We know from history what being chosen meant for Nicodemus. It wasn't a huge role beyond his ability and supernatural but it still was an important role.

I strive for accuracy in understanding the scriptures given to us. That's all. Not discrediting the notion of becoming a new creation in Christ. In fact I'm very much a proponent of this.

You said Called and Chosen...
It almost sound calvinistic....

We are all called by God...
We are chosen based on our decision to adhere to His rules.

 

[JLB]

This story has nothing to do with salvation...it has everything to do with being called and chosen...

Called and chosen for what?

 

[JLB]

This story has nothing to do with salvation...it has everything to do with being called and chosen...

And I've never told anyone that they need to be born again. It's overly trite and misused to the point of ridiculousness.

I do tell them that they need to have a personal relationship with God...and the results of that relationship will make them a new creation in Christ.

Ok. So be it.


How about this one.


Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 1 Peter 1:22-23



JLB

 

[Randy]

Born from above

200+ replies in this thread and that's what you were stating all along?
Here from translators footnotes
John 3:3 Or from above; the Greek is purposely ambiguous and can mean both again and from above; also verse 7

I think you must be born anew is a better fit. But Jesus explained His meaning of this new birth. "Born of the Spirit" and John wrote about the children of God as in born of God.

Nobody was mislead by born again.

Randy

 

[JLB]

200+ replies in this thread and that's what you were stating all along?
Here from translators footnotes
John 3:3 Or from above; the Greek is purposely ambiguous and can mean both again and from above; also verse 7

I think you must be born anew is a better fit. But Jesus explained His meaning of this new birth. "Born of the Spirit" and John wrote about the children of God as in born of God.

Nobody was mislead by born again.

Randy

Born anew is good.


It implies another birth like born again.


Born of the Spirit is clear, as well as born of God.


Amen.



JLB

 

[JohnDB]

Called and chosen for what?

History (scriptures tell us) exactly what Nicodemus was called and chosen to do.

So was Judas.

God knows us before we were born.
Jesus is the Alpha and Omega... beginning and end. Those aren't just fancy titles...they mean something.
God knows long before you were born what you would choose and will continue to choose. Doesn't mean that He will cause you to believe or not believe...but He does have specific tasks for his Followers that are capable and able. It may be for a noble purpose or ignoble.
I don't know nor should I try to determine it for others.
God has a plan for everyone...

 

[JohnDB]

200+ replies in this thread and that's what you were stating all along?
Here from translators footnotes
John 3:3 Or from above; the Greek is purposely ambiguous and can mean both again and from above; also verse 7

I think you must be born anew is a better fit. But Jesus explained His meaning of this new birth. "Born of the Spirit" and John wrote about the children of God as in born of God.

Nobody was mislead by born again.

Randy

Well if people would actually read instead of just claiming they read and understood what they really didn't read, it wouldn't take this long. And a whole bunch of non relevant answers to non relevant questions wouldn't be demanded...and we could have been here 10 pages ago.

 

[JLB]

You said Called and Chosen...
It almost sound calvinistic....

We are all called by God...
We are chosen based on our decision to adhere to His rules.

Called to repentance = salvation

Called out of darkness into His marvelous light = salvation

Even called for purpose must begin with salvation.




JLB

 

[JLB]

So was Judas.

Yes Judas was called to be an Apostle and to reign with Christ and the others in the age to come.


So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 19:28



He chose to trade his destiny with Christ for thirty pieces of silver.





JLB

 

[JLB]

History (scriptures tell us) exactly what Nicodemus was called and chosen to do.

Ok. Great.

I like learning from the scriptures.


Now your talkin!


Go ahead and share the scriptures that teach us what Nicodemus was called and chosen to do.



JLB

 

[JLB]

God knows us before we were born.
Jesus is the Alpha and Omega... beginning and end. Those aren't just fancy titles...they mean something.
God knows long before you were born what you would choose and will continue to choose. Doesn't mean that He will cause you to believe or not believe...but He does have specific tasks for his Followers that are capable and able. It may be for a noble purpose or ignoble.
I don't know nor should I try to determine it for others.
God has a plan for everyone...

Amen.


All this starts with being born again and filled with His Spirit.




JLB

 

[JohnDB]

Ok. Great.

I like learning from the scriptures.


Now your talkin!


Go ahead and share the scriptures that teach us what Nicodemus was called and chosen to do.



JLB

He and Joseph of Arimathia (sp) were the opposing votes on the sanhidrin counsil and took the body of Jesus for burial.

He chose to trade his destiny with Christ for thirty pieces of silver

And he was also prophesied about looonnng before he was born or even the Romans conquered their first country.

 

[JLB]

He and Joseph of Arimathia (sp) we're the opposing votes on the sanhidrin counsil and took the body of Jesus for burial.

Scriptures

 

[JLB]

He and Joseph of Arimathia (sp) were the opposing votes on the sanhidrin counsil and took the body of Jesus for burial.


And he was also prophesied about looonnng before he was born or even the Romans conquered their first country.

Scriptures that teach us what Nicodemus was called to do.




JLB

 

[JohnDB]

Scriptures

What?
You have forgotten how to use a concordance?