There is a poster on this forum who buys that .it's not common but they exist.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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CAN A REFORMED BELIEVER FALL AWAY FROM FAITH?
- Thread starter GodsGrace
- Start date
they are %100 wrong need to read the Bible better. there is so much false teaching out there. i learn about it all the time.
Thus why I said extremism .
Excellent.
The Godly Heresy of Sinless Perfectionism
How can a heresy be ‘godly’? In short, it can’t. Godliness is about conformity to sound doctrine (Titus 2:1). However, most cases of (reasonably convincing) false teaching will consist of...au.thegospelcoalition.org
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Why is it that obedience to God is considered a false doctrine?
Paul wrote..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)
John wrote..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." (1 John 3:9)
Peter wrote..."Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1 Peer 4:1)
I am sticking with them.
Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
(1Co 15:34)
This was directed to the Corinthians, who denied the resurrection.
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He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose, the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. (1Jn 3:8-10)
So if we sin or are not living a life that is pleasing to God, we need to ask ourselves if we are a child of God or a child of the devil.
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Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; (1Pe 4:1)
Have you, and I include myself, suffered for our faith?
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I am not seeing any of the imagined security in the above scriptures that Calvinists boast about.
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Here in 1 Corinthians 15 below, the scripture is written to the Corinthians, but all letters are to be read everywhere, as instructed..
Colossians 4:16 And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.
On top of that, what Apostle writes to the Corinthians, are the commandments of God to all the world of Gentiles, as he is the Apostle to the Gentiles, not just some people for some instruction, that is a modern mistake and diversion..
Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
1 Corinthians 14:36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
So here in 1 Cor 15, we are instructed right away what awaking to righteousness is.
It is regarding the raising of the dead, and how the quickening does not occur until the body dies.
1 Corinthians 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
! Corinthians 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
Now we can see that all of this debate and discussion is pure vanity, and instead of for good purpose, is evil communications to corrupt good manners. So awake out of this anyone reading, and stop being deceived, and the deceivers stop deceiving themselves too. If anyone has anything wise at all to say, their best way is to keep quiet, and to believe in righteousness, and stop taking part in vanity, and instead to go and do right, being kind, caring, loving and giving.
So we put off the body of the sins of the flesh, to be risen with Christ in faith through believing in the operation that God did, to raise Christ again from the dead.
To be quickened together with Him ( we die first, to sin, which is unbelief in the rising of the Lord Jesus Christ to life eternal, or there is no quickening in us, believing in Christ overcoming the sentence of death that was on all the world, since the world began.
Colossians 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Colossians 4:16 And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.
On top of that, what Apostle writes to the Corinthians, are the commandments of God to all the world of Gentiles, as he is the Apostle to the Gentiles, not just some people for some instruction, that is a modern mistake and diversion..
Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
1 Corinthians 14:36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
So here in 1 Cor 15, we are instructed right away what awaking to righteousness is.
It is regarding the raising of the dead, and how the quickening does not occur until the body dies.
1 Corinthians 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
! Corinthians 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
Now we can see that all of this debate and discussion is pure vanity, and instead of for good purpose, is evil communications to corrupt good manners. So awake out of this anyone reading, and stop being deceived, and the deceivers stop deceiving themselves too. If anyone has anything wise at all to say, their best way is to keep quiet, and to believe in righteousness, and stop taking part in vanity, and instead to go and do right, being kind, caring, loving and giving.
So we put off the body of the sins of the flesh, to be risen with Christ in faith through believing in the operation that God did, to raise Christ again from the dead.
To be quickened together with Him ( we die first, to sin, which is unbelief in the rising of the Lord Jesus Christ to life eternal, or there is no quickening in us, believing in Christ overcoming the sentence of death that was on all the world, since the world began.
Colossians 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
God has manifested, who the children of the devil are, and who the children of God are, it cant be confused, as Jesus Christ is the child of God to give that belief, to know absolutely who is who, Him being light, truth, meek, humble, righteous, overcoming this world.
Now the devil, as Cain, of that wicked one ( the child of the devil, instead of the children of God) has no lover in them for their brother, but through wicked works kill, hate, and hurt, instead of doing righteously, do only unrighteousness.
1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
Romans 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
1 Thessalonians 4:6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.
Now the devil, as Cain, of that wicked one ( the child of the devil, instead of the children of God) has no lover in them for their brother, but through wicked works kill, hate, and hurt, instead of doing righteously, do only unrighteousness.
1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
Romans 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
1 Thessalonians 4:6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.
Arm ourselves with the same mind of Christ, to no longer live for pleasures, in lusts, excesses, revelings, and idolatry ( coveting)
Then to suffer in the flesh, is to suffer the loss of all of those things, and to suffer the losss of everything you love also( your life, wealth, and pride) or they speak evil of you if you do not join their perverted version or riot in the name of Jesus Christ...
Colossians 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Philippians 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
1 Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:
4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:
Does anyone see the link from God above ? How they continue in that riot, mocking the word of God to cease to sin ?
They shall receive the reward of unrighteousness ( remember they who are not the children of God, do only unrighteousness, instead of only righteousness, to love your brother, never working ill, not like Cain but as Abel) and they count it pleasure to riot. ( remember they think it strange, and oppose you, that you do not run with them to the same excess of riot.)
They sport themselves with their own deceivings,, feasting with you, they cannot cease from sin ( running to excesses)
They are beguiling as the serpent, ( remember that Cain was of that wicked one, they are the children of the same one) and they are unstable, they cannot speak what is right and straight, and can only be as the crooked serpent. Instead of suffering to drop all idolatry which is coveteousness, they exercise their hearts in coveteous practises, as they are cursed children, who forsake the right way to go astray, as they also love the wages of unrighteousness, which is sin and death, instead of loving the gift of God, eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. ( arming ourselves with His same mind to suffer with Him, who had nowhere to lay His head. Matthew 8:20.)
2 Peter 2:13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Then to suffer in the flesh, is to suffer the loss of all of those things, and to suffer the losss of everything you love also( your life, wealth, and pride) or they speak evil of you if you do not join their perverted version or riot in the name of Jesus Christ...
Colossians 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Philippians 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
1 Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:
4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:
Does anyone see the link from God above ? How they continue in that riot, mocking the word of God to cease to sin ?
They shall receive the reward of unrighteousness ( remember they who are not the children of God, do only unrighteousness, instead of only righteousness, to love your brother, never working ill, not like Cain but as Abel) and they count it pleasure to riot. ( remember they think it strange, and oppose you, that you do not run with them to the same excess of riot.)
They sport themselves with their own deceivings,, feasting with you, they cannot cease from sin ( running to excesses)
They are beguiling as the serpent, ( remember that Cain was of that wicked one, they are the children of the same one) and they are unstable, they cannot speak what is right and straight, and can only be as the crooked serpent. Instead of suffering to drop all idolatry which is coveteousness, they exercise their hearts in coveteous practises, as they are cursed children, who forsake the right way to go astray, as they also love the wages of unrighteousness, which is sin and death, instead of loving the gift of God, eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. ( arming ourselves with His same mind to suffer with Him, who had nowhere to lay His head. Matthew 8:20.)
2 Peter 2:13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Sin is shameful, that it cant even be spoken of what is done.
Sin that was shameful, is left behind, because sin is not believing in loving your neighbour as ourselves.
The word of God is with power, I believe and know how to use that power, to show all of these words of God, as proving all things, and when anyone tries to wiggle out, it is only going to get tighter and tighter around them unfortunately, whoever they are, as it cant be any other way, as God wants to show us He is the living Word.
Romans 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Ephesians 5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
1 Corinthians 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
let me ask you this using this scripture
James 4:17
“Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.” there is sin of commission sin of omission i dont question your obedience to God . do you do every thing %100 that is asked of you by the Holy Spirit ? say if i was do something to make you extremely angry , paul wrote be ye angry and sin not ? we still sin . that dont mean we revert back to our old lifestyle . it means we fail at time to do what we know we should do.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." (1 John 3:9) -- if your sinless then your saying you no longer need Christ . why would paul write put off the old man put on the new man. ?
when we fail to do something asked led of us and dont it is a sin of the commission
Why is it that obedience to God is considered a false doctrine?
no body said it was .let me ask it this way do you cross every T and dot every I in your walk with the Lord .
if we was that perfect we would not need Jesus
Romans 7:14–20
14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, w sold under sin. 15 For I do not understand my own actions. For xI do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. 16 Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with ythe law, that it is good. 17 So now zit is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells ain me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. 19 bFor I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want, c it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.dont tell me you never act out in the flesh I AM not questioning your dedication to the Lord. we all try to do our best but still fall short.
i don't think your some horrible sinner who does bad things all the time .you need re examine your statement
Jethro Bodine
Member
What exactly do you think these verses prove?
That was my question to you.
To me, it is that no one is able to come to faith until first being born-again/saved by God.
Until then, no one can truly perceive and come to correct an understanding of things spiritual and
are spiritually blind and deaf.
As I recall, I posted this regarding your statement that the Holy Spirit councils everyone and gives them faith. It then becomes up to them to accept or reject. According to those verses, that cannot happen.
saved by grace through faith So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. we accept by faith . why would you get saved then God give us faith. . we already have faith .
not sure i agree with this either . all i know when God spoke to me saying NOW or never by faith i chose the now Jesus said come unto me . he stands at the door and knocks he doesn't kick the door in
Jethro Bodine
Member
No one is able to 'come to faith' (meaning salvation) unless God calls them. And if they refuse the call the invitation is withdrawn and they can't 'come to faith'. That's what we learn from the example of Israel. God hardened them in their rejection of God. That doesn't mean they couldn't accept God because God didn't first make them born again. It means they can't be saved because they rejected the invitation.
If someone can't hear nor see (spiritually speaking), then even if (for the sake of argument) your contention is correct (which I do not agree that it is), then they would be unable to accept that invitation -- they would be unable to because they would not see, nor hear, nor perceive that it was made - IOW oblivious to it.
I added two more verses that confirm this. Observe in v15 that for them to be healed, they would first need to see, to hear, and to have their hearts converted but they cannot give those attributes to themselves. We know this because in v16, we are told that those who do see and do hear, do so only because their eyes and ears had first blessed by God - the others had not been so blessed.
There are additional verses I can post if you'd like that support this but for the sake of brevity, I'll just post these.
[Mat 13:13-14 KJV]
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
[Mat 13:15-16 KJV]
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and [their] ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with [their] eyes, and hear with [their] ears, and should understand with [their] heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed [are] your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
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Jethro Bodine
Member
Correct. But that is AFTER they have repeatedly rejected it. That's the basic idea that Hebrews 6:4-6 is talking about. Up until then they are free to respond or not respond to the call of God via the testimony of the Holy Spirit, the word of faith. But repeated rejection of the gospel will cause God to eventually make it so you can not receive it.
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Jethro Bodine
Member
The seeing and hearing necessary to receive the gospel comes by revelation through the word of faith, the testimony of the Holy Spirit about Jesus. IOW, the faith necessary to believe in the gospel message comes with the preaching of the gospel because it is the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth who is speaking it, convicting the hearer of the truthfulness of the message they are hearing. And so the faith to hear and receive the message comes by hearing the message. But you say a person has to first have that which the Bible says you receive through the hearing of the gospel message in order to be able to hear the gospel message.
Yes indeed, and of committing adultery and taking alleged brothers in Christ before unbelieving judges.
But the message covers more ground than just that.
All sinners should take it to heart, and convert.
Yes indeed.
The answer was in your scriptural citing
If you have been water baptized into Christ's death, you have suffered with Him, and can have the same mind as He did.
Hmmm.
Jethro Bodine
Member
Yes.
By virtue of 'having' faith there has to be faith present to have.
NO!
This is the point I'm trying to make.
Just because someone knows the gospel really is true, because the Holy Spirit told them it's true, does not mean that person then believes in it. Knowing the truth does not save anybody. Trusting in it does.
Because faith is by definition a conviction that the gospel is true, while 'believing' is retaining that conviction in the heart, trusting in it's truth to save you. Just because someone knows the gospel is true doesn't mean they have placed their trust in it.