CAN A REFORMED BELIEVER FALL AWAY FROM FAITH?

[Cooper]

If it falls everywhere, why did it take many years before it fell in my soil?

Or did it take many years to take root?
.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If by working the soil of the earth you mean that God's grace falls on all and He is always the first to make the move and is always calling...then, yes, I agree with you.

I do mean all that...except the 'always calling' part. He didn't start calling me until I was in my teens. And not forcefully until I was in my late teens/early twenties.

But anyway, I hope you get the gist of what I'm saying. IMO, God doesn't make the soil the kind of soil it is as Calvinism teaches. His word exposes it for the kind of soil it will be when seeded and watered by God. LIke a husbandmen, God is in the business of realizing the potential that the soil has. And he realizes that potential, built into the soil itself as a matter of who and what that person is as a created, conscious being, by seeding and watering it. If it produces nothing, in the end it will be burned. If it does produce something, it is harvested to the Master's good pleasure.

Hebrews 6:7-8
7For land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is tended receives the blessing of God. 8But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless, and its curse is imminent. In the end it will be burned.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Or did it take many years to take root?
.

It was many years before I literally heard it. Up to then it had not been sown in any way shape or form in my life. I literally never heard the gospel of God's forgiveness until I was 19, I think. Up to then I did not know what it meant that Christ died for our sins. I did not know the gospel was about having your sins forgiven.

 

[Cooper]

It was many years before I literally heard it. Up to then it had not been sown in any way shape or form in my life. I literally never heard the gospel of God's forgiveness until I was 19, I think. Up to then I did not know what it meant that Christ died for our sins. I did not know the gospel was about having your sins forgiven.

There's your answer, and even then, it can take years to respond and bear fruit.
.

 

[GodsGrace]

The use of Romans isn't the verse for that.that one you posted is for the the hardening of man's heart to judgement.

Even the plaques were not a judgement .it's said I'm not judging you but showing you my power .

Those were warnings .a better verse was Paul saying allowing one to be turned to Satan so that he may learn while his flesh is destroyed .

Exodus 9 15 I believe he said that .he could wipe Egypt out .

Isn't man's heart hardened by the time God judges him?
Isn't being turned to satan the same as God abandoning a person due to his hardness of heart?

 

[GodsGrace]

If it falls everywhere, why did it take many years before it fell in my soil?

The seed falls everywhere because God gives His grace to everyone.
God makes the first move...He has to reveal Himself before you could believe in Him.
Romans 1:19-20
19They know the truth about God because he has made it obvious to them.
20For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God.

Hebrews 11:6
6And it is impossible to please God without faith. Anyone who wants to come to him must believe that God exists and that he rewards those who sincerely seek him.


In the parable of the sower no mention is made about how long it takes for the heart to respond to God.
Some never respond or they respond with a solid NO.
Some are saved at 14 (my daughter), some at 30, some near the time of death.

 

[GodsGrace]

I do mean all that...except the 'always calling' part.

We don't know that God is calling us.
What about when we're young and do something prohibited...like trying to smoke.
It made me sick. I was 11. Wasn't it the spirit of God that drew me away from it?
It certainly wasn't the spirit of satan.
Acts 17:30
30The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent,

How could God COMMAND you to repent unless He reveals Himself to you first?
It could be done in the quietest of ways.

Think of all the verses in the OT that state that God shows His mercy to all.
Who can know how?
God is always working.

He didn't start calling me until I was in my teens. And not forcefully until I was in my late teens/early twenties.

But anyway, I hope you get the gist of what I'm saying. IMO, God doesn't make the soil the kind of soil it is as Calvinism teaches.

Amen to that. It would be the same as predestinating one to life or death.

His word exposes it for the kind of soil it will be when seeded and watered by God. LIke a husbandmen, God is in the business of realizing the potential that the soil has. And he realizes that potential, built into the soil itself as a matter of who and what that person is as a created, conscious being, by seeding and watering it. If it produces nothing, in the end it will be burned. If it does produce something, it is harvested to the Master's good pleasure.

Hebrews 6:7-8
7For land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is tended receives the blessing of God. 8But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless, and its curse is imminent. In the end it will be burned.

I think it's good that we each come to understand God's ways as best we can...
as long as they are biblical. The above is a fine way of understanding.

 

[jasonc]

Isn't man's heart hardened by the time God judges him?
Isn't being turned to satan the same as God abandoning a person due to his hardness of heart?

Not in all cases .

We do choose sin and God will let it use our choice to break us .

Romans one in context spoke of men knowing God exists and surpressing that knowledge and God giving them over to their sin.

All men deep down know that something greater then us made us .we choose to find that or ignore it .God will draw us to him and we then have a choice.

At some point the rejection because enough times we are hardened by God .

Look up the deathscort and who they are and what they do.that is a good example of Romans one .

 

[jasonc]

We don't know that God is calling us.
What about when we're young and do something prohibited...like trying to smoke.
It made me sick. I was 11. Wasn't it the spirit of God that drew me away from it?
It certainly wasn't the spirit of satan.
Acts 17:30
30The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent,

How could God COMMAND you to repent unless He reveals Himself to you first?
It could be done in the quietest of ways.

Think of all the verses in the OT that state that God shows His mercy to all.
Who can know how?
God is always working.



Amen to that. It would be the same as predestinating one to life or death.


I think it's good that we each come to understand God's ways as best we can...
as long as they are biblical. The above is a fine way of understanding.

I did once God showed me visions of when i did reject him .people would always find me in the barracks and give me tracts or bibles and or the times I yelled at them for inviting me for church .mocked them when I was a jw.

 

[GodsGrace]

Not in all cases .

We do choose sin and God will let it use our choice to break us .

Romans one in context spoke of men knowing God exists and surpressing that knowledge and God giving them over to their sin.

All men deep down know that something greater then us made us .we choose to find that or ignore it .God will draw us to him and we then have a choice.

At some point the rejection because enough times we are hardened by God .

Look up the deathscort and who they are and what they do.that is a good example of Romans one .

OK. I can agree to the above.
But what is DEATHSCORT.
Is it regarding that movie? (which I haven't seen).

 

[GodsGrace]

I did once God showed me visions of when i did reject him .people would always find me in the barracks and give me tracts or bibles and or the times I yelled at them for inviting me for church .mocked them when I was a jw.

Agreed.
Sometimes we feel God's calling very strongly.
I feel like God spoke to me at some point (not audibly).
And He was telling me something true that worked.
That's when I became born again...

 

[jerry63935]

Oh my goodness!
No!
I don't believe any of that.

that is apostolic doctrine

 

[jasonc]

OK. I can agree to the above.
But what is DEATHSCORT.
Is it regarding that movie? (which I haven't seen).

Abortion clinic ,Google that word together with that

 

[jerry63935]

If a pastor lies and steals abs commits crimes he Shouldn't be simply moves to another church but defrocked .the board of elders confronted him and they forgive him as he relented but then it was found out he didn't change .they asked that he be defrocked and a new pastor sent . The bishops of the state simply moved him

there is a line to follow here . a pastor doing these things should be removed immediately/ no questions asked !!! there is a time for restoration he can repent. maybe at a later date admitted back to the ministry . in most cases there is a presbytery that handles this or if the church is independent there should be a type minister board they need to knowledgeable of the Bible and led of the spirit . the pulpit should be protected . or there could be a couple pastor assigned for the restoration

 

[jerry63935]

And He was telling me something true that worked.
That's when I became born again...

the Holy Spirit should have revealed you was lost with out Jesus and when you called upon the name of the Lord for salvation. then you become born-again

 

[GodsGrace]

that is apostolic doctrine

Thanks.
I appreciate learning something new.

 

[Randy]

Any pastor or person can do this .

The problem is not that the pastor fell but how the bishop handled it.

I know of an Anglican father who committed adultery with another's fatters wife and was defrocked .he was an army chaplain and well he likely lost his military career and his wife divorced him .
The other man after seeking counsel amicablely divorced his wife .

Sad but that father sinned but the wardens were right to defrock him .

As I stated a job doesn't reflect a person's righteousness. By their fruit you will recognize them.

 

[jasonc]

there is a line to follow here . a pastor doing these things should be removed immediately/ no questions asked !!! there is a time for restoration he can repent. maybe at a later date admitted back to the ministry . in most cases there is a presbytery that handles this or if the church is independent there should be a type minister board they need to knowledgeable of the Bible and led of the spirit . the pulpit should be protected . or there could be a couple pastor assigned for the restoration

I'm one to say sometimes when you break the trust you can't do that again.but this is good convo with my elders

 

[jasonc]

As I stated a job doesn't reflect a person's righteousness. By their fruit you will recognize them.

A calling isn't a job .

Once God gifts you .it's who you are to be known for .

 

[jerry63935]

A calling isn't a job .

exactly if it is treated as a job they are hireling