CAN A REFORMED BELIEVER FALL AWAY FROM FAITH?

Cooper · Nov 20, 2022

Jethro Bodine said:
They tend to balance one another and are both necessary for a healthy relationship with God. Most Christians are one or the other-cold and cerebral in a kind of textbook relationship with God, or hot and emotional in a kind of honeymoon relationship with God. Together, the one keeps the other in check.

That is the intellectual response of someone with their feet in both camps. You will not find a born-again Christian quoting Calvin.
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Jethro Bodine · Nov 20, 2022

Cooper said:
That sounds like an intellectual, so let me be blunt about this, if you follow Calvin, you are going to be far from the Saviour.
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I agree that Calvinists in general are intellectual to a fault. Of the two, I prefer that a person be on the emotional side. At least they are experiencing God in a way that leads to more action and less talk. Because after all, the Christian life is about action, not talk.

jasonc · Nov 20, 2022

Cooper said:
You will not find a born-again Christian quoting Calvin.
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Okay .

I guess locally when my church and the other two are at the clinic preaching against abortion it's Satan casting out Satan .

The majority of those that go their are reformed and the others Catholic.

No arminists go there to preach against abortion and offer them help directly .

jasonc · Nov 20, 2022

I'm not reformed but my church is and plenty of arminists are hyper emotional .

It works both ways .

Jethro Bodine · Nov 20, 2022

Cooper said:
That is the intellectual response of someone with their feet in both camps. You will not find a born-again Christian quoting Calvin.
.

I think you're being a little hard on Calvinists, lol. I think many Calvinists are born again. But because their theology rules out the operation of the Holy Spirit in this day and age they don't get to experience the wonder of his felt presence in praise and worship, effectual fervent prayer, and the dramatic operation of the gifts. Glad I ain't one of them! There's can be a very cold and dry experience! No thanks!

Cooper · Nov 20, 2022

Jethro Bodine said:
I agree that Calvinists in general are intellectual to a fault. Of the two, I prefer that a person be on the emotional side. At least they are experiencing God in a way that leads to more action and less talk. Because after all, the Christian life is about action, not talk.

All I see is someone quoting an intellectual who lived 1,500 years after Christ and never knew him, but I never see you quoting Jesus the founder of the Christian faith.

How do you say?
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jasonc · Nov 20, 2022

Jethro Bodine said:
I think you're being a little hard on Calvinists, lol. I think many Calvinists are born again. But because their theology rules out the operation of the Holy Spirit in this day and age they don't get to experience the wonder of his felt presence in praise and worship, effectual fervent prayer, and the dramatic operation of the gifts. Glad I ain't one of them! There's can be a very cold and dry experience! No thanks!

What is a Reformed Charismatic?

I would like to think that I am a Reformed Charismatic but I wonder what that means. So, here’s one attempt to clarify the convictions of a Christ-follower who believes that the Holy Spirit is alive and well and that John Calvin had a pretty good understanding of the apostle Paul.What is a...

network.crcna.org

jasonc · Nov 20, 2022

Oh Lord . My pastor a reformed one and has attended a Spanish speaking charismatic church that we rent to .preaches the Bible .he may quite theologians ,Luther ,knox,Calvin ,spurgeon .the wcf but will say the Bible is authority.

Ready ought to go to reformed church and see.

Cooper · Nov 20, 2022

Jethro Bodine said:
I think you're being a little hard on Calvinists, lol. I think many Calvinists are born again. But because their theology rules out the operation of the Holy Spirit in this day and age they don't get to experience the wonder of his felt presence in praise and worship, effectual fervent prayer, and the dramatic operation of the gifts. Glad I ain't one of them! There's can be a very cold and dry experience! No thanks!

You have made an important point about the Holy Spirit, who is present in the heart of all believers. The Comforter who Jesus sent is God with us."
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Jethro Bodine · Nov 20, 2022

Cooper said:
All I see is someone quoting an intellectual who lived 1,500 years after Christ and never knew him, but I never see you quoting Jesus the founder of the Christian faith.

How do you say?
.

I quote the scriptures in many of my posts. Maybe to a fault (for most people don't read scriptural quotes). I don't know any of Calvin's quotes for me to share them (okay, maybe I know one). I just know the basic tenants of the 'P' in TULIP and refer to them when I need to show someone that they are a Calvinist and don't know it, despite their objections to being one.

Jethro Bodine · Nov 20, 2022

Cooper said:
You have made an important point about the Holy Spirit, who is present in the heart of all believers. The Comforter who Jesus sent is God with us."
.

The Holy Spirit is the best kept secret in all of this life on earth, including Christianity.

For most Christians it seems the indwelling Holy Spirit is an intellectual, textbook fact about Christianity, not a felt reality.

Cooper · Nov 20, 2022

Jethro Bodine said:
The Holy Spirit is the best kept secret in all of this life on earth, including Christianity.

For most Christians it seems the indwelling Holy Spirit is an intellectual, textbook fact about Christianity, not a felt reality.

I am a spirit-filled Christian, and I am taking a break. I may be back. Cheers and bye.

Try a Pentecostal Church, perhaps the Assemblies of God, or Elim Foursquare.
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Jethro Bodine · Nov 20, 2022

jasonc said:
What is a Reformed Charismatic?

I would like to think that I am a Reformed Charismatic but I wonder what that means. So, here’s one attempt to clarify the convictions of a Christ-follower who believes that the Holy Spirit is alive and well and that John Calvin had a pretty good understanding of the apostle Paul.What is a...

network.crcna.org

From the article:

Perhaps there are others like me who would like the best of both Calvinism and Pentecostalism. Does this make sense? What am I missing here?

No such thing. By definition you can not be Calvinist and Pentecostal at the same time. Reformers are Cessationists.

Randy · Nov 20, 2022

From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.
“You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve.

Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.”

Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!” 71(He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)

To those who turned back again we know the cause -unbelief and Jesus knew that beforehand stating, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them"
And we know the cause of Judas allowed falling away - prophecy fulfillment -He was noted as a thief while with Jesus so its not set in stone if he really had a change of heart in his ways. He was that way before he met Jesus. His outcome was his own doing not Gods.

But the others who were chosen really were Jesus's disciples and believed and knew Jesus was the Holy one of and from God. That He alone had the words of eternal life. The Christ the Son of God. And if tradition is correct they all suffered persecution and death for advocating Christ and refusing to back down or renounce their testimony about Jesus. I don't think that was all of themselves but by Gods grace and power they didn't fall away. So while some explore the opposite (possible to fall away) we see its possible for those chosen to remain faithful to the end. The same goes for Paul as well.

Jude
To him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy— 25 to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.

As for myself I know Jesus and have had words from Him vis the Spirit in answer to prayers and I can not unknow that fellowship and testimony of the Spirit to my spirit. No power or spirit can separate me from His love for me. And I am far from alone in that. -Not possible to fall away as I see myself and I state that confidence based on Christs power and love not by arrogance. I know and understand that I am not free to sin and fear God to do so though I don't want to anyway.

jasonc · Nov 20, 2022

Jethro Bodine said:
From the article:

No such thing. By definition you can not be Calvinist and Pentecostal at the same time. Reformers are Cessationists.

Uhm wouldn't that mean that you would have to be catholic as well the reformed are including Luther and Lutheran theology isn't pentacostal.

Neither was the man Jacobus arminus.

jasonc · Nov 20, 2022

jasonc said:
Uhm wouldn't that mean that you would have to be catholic as well the reformed are including Luther and Lutheran theology isn't pentacostal.

Neither was the man Jacobus arminus.

It should be called weselayan as he revived the opposite position to the reformed and he was pentacistal and allowed female pastors .

Which I don't see the Spirit contradicting the Word .

Jethro Bodine · Nov 20, 2022

jasonc said:
Uhm wouldn't that mean that you would have to be catholic as well the reformed are including Luther and Lutheran theology isn't pentacostal.

Neither was the man Jacobus arminus.

Any denomination that does not have Cessationism in it's official creed can promote having a charismatic relationship with God. Some who don't subscribe to the Cessation doctrine do promote the gifts of the Spirit in life and worship, some don't. You can't really know who among the non-Reformists are charismatic and who are not by denomination only these days.

Jethro Bodine · Nov 20, 2022

Randy said:
From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.
“You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve.

Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.”

Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!” 71(He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)

To those who turned back again we know the cause -unbelief and Jesus knew that beforehand stating, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them"
And we know the cause of Judas allowed falling away - prophecy fulfillment -He was noted as a thief while with Jesus so its not set in stone if he really had a change of heart in his ways. He was that way before he met Jesus. His outcome was his own doing not Gods.

But the others who were chosen really were Jesus's disciples and believed and knew Jesus was the Holy one of and from God. That He alone had the words of eternal life. The Christ the Son of God. And if tradition is correct they all suffered persecution and death for advocating Christ and refusing to back down or renounce their testimony about Jesus. I don't think that was all of themselves but by Gods grace and power they didn't fall away. So while some explore the opposite (possible to fall away) we see its possible for those chosen to remain faithful to the end. The same goes for Paul as well.

Jude
To him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy— 25 to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.

As for myself I know Jesus and have had words from Him vis the Spirit in answer to prayers and I can not unknow that fellowship and testimony of the Spirit to my spirit. No power or spirit can separate me from His love for me. And I am far from alone in that. -Not possible to fall away as I see myself and I state that confidence based on Christs power and love not by arrogance. I know and understand that I am not free to sin and fear God to do so though I don't want to anyway.

It all boils down to whether or not a true believer can stop believing, because that is what they would have to do in order to fall away and lose salvation. Can a true believer stop believing? I don't know. I'm just doing what the Bible says to do and being careful to not do that.

Jethro Bodine · Nov 20, 2022