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CAN A REFORMED BELIEVER FALL AWAY FROM FAITH?

jerry63935 said:
exactly if it is treated as a job they are hireling
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I respect my pastor .he doesn't need the pay and don't take it because he has that income .his wife is a pa.i also pray for him as too many sit by and let the elders and deacons lift the burden.

I desire to be a builder of this church .I do what I can .it's not enough and God knows .we need Sunday school teachers more to help with the pantry.
 
jasonc said:
I desire to be a builder of this church .
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i would gladly take ten members with that attitude . this is very trying times for pastors. back him up . there is nothing wrong with paying a pastor as it is bible . the Church i have its been reopened good 2 years ago.. were still in the Building stage . its like pulling teeth getting folks in. i take no pay the wife takes care of the finances . but nothing in my name bank wise . we clean the church if it needs repair i usually find some one get it took care of. Honestly the Good Lord has blessed us in finances.

when i re opened the Church things was a mess book keeping wise. we had get a EIN to open the bank account we applied for a new one brick wall. i finally got a break through with a phone call they re opened the old one. that was closed due to lack of activity bank wise . you would not believe the red tape with the state on tax exempt. lets not for get all the fees $$ . but serious with that type desire the sky is the limit . in the book of Nehemiah they built the wall they had a mind to work. they worked with weapons in one hand a hand tools in the other.


every church has pew warmers many are just there a Church needs workers willing to roll there sleeves up and do what needs done. not flattering you with flowered words.. if your attitude towards the Church is the real deal. i commend you :salute. i have no reason not to believe you . a calling wades through and prays through the headaches . a hireling in it just for the money will walk out..
 
jerry63935 said:
i would gladly take ten members with that attitude . this is very trying times for pastors. back him up . there is nothing wrong with paying a pastor as it is bible . the Church i have its been reopened good 2 years ago.. were still in the Building stage . its like pulling teeth getting folks in. i take no pay the wife takes care of the finances . but nothing in my name bank wise . we clean the church if it needs repair i usually find some one get it took care of. Honestly the Good Lord has blessed us in finances.

when i re opened the Church things was a mess book keeping wise. we had get a EIN to open the bank account we applied for a new one brick wall. i finally got a break through with a phone call they re opened the old one. that was closed due to lack of activity bank wise . you would not believe the red tape with the state on tax exempt. lets not for get all the fees $$ . but serious with that type desire the sky is the limit . in the book of Nehemiah they built the wall they had a mind to work. they worked with weapons in one hand a hand tools in the other.


every church has pew warmers many are just there a Church needs workers willing to roll there sleeves up and do what needs done. not flattering you with flowered words.. if your attitude towards the Church is the real deal. i commend you :salute. i have no reason not to believe you . a calling wades through and prays through the headaches . a hireling in it just for the money will walk out..
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I'm a veteran .I was called to be a soldier .if I see a need if I ignore it part of me dies.

Even if I try to help and it's not needed the fact my heart cares and I acted will quench that desire.i don't need honor or glory just let me find a way to put my hands to the plow
 
jasonc said:
I'm a veteran .I was called to be a soldier .if I see a need if I ignore it part of me dies.

Even if I try to help and it's not needed the fact my heart cares and I acted will quench that desire.i don't need honor or glory just let me find a way to put my hands to the plow
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read the Book of Nehemiah its very interesting book in the Bible
 
jasonc said:
A calling isn't a job .

Once God gifts you .it's who you are to be known for .
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A true man of God doesn't bare the bad fruit you speak of and just because a man is called Pastor doesn't make that man a righteous man or validate any claim he may make about being called by God.

Despite what some may state I see it as a choice made. My neighbor is a retired Pastor and I know he is a true man of God by the Spirit when we first met and spoke. But I state again a good tree does not bare bad fruit.
This is a trustworthy saying: If anyone aspires to be an overseer, he desires a noble task.
 
jerry63935 said:
the choice is saying yes to the calling
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I won't argue that with you but not all who claim so are genuine. Its not the title that reflects one's righteousness.

And it can be seen as a job as it is written
The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching. 18 For Scripture says, “Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain,” and “The worker deserves his wages.
I hope your getting paid by man. You can consider God as your employer and His word directs wages.
 
Randy said:
I won't argue that with you but not all who claim so are genuine. Its not the title that reflects one's righteousness.
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there AINT NOBODY that has righteousness on there own. in fact our righteousness is as filthy rags /discarded sanitary napkins . the only true righteousness we have is Christ in us the hope of Glory


I hope your getting paid by man.
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i draw no money from the Church i pastor . for some odd reason you have things mixed up . a preacher is a calling .not something you just up and decide your going to be on your own
 
jerry63935 said:
there AINT NOBODY that has righteousness on there own. in fact our righteousness is as filthy rags /discarded sanitary napkins . the only true righteousness we have is Christ in us the hope of Glory




i draw no money from the Church i pastor . for some odd reason you have things mixed up . a preacher is a calling .not something you just up and decide your going to be on your own
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Jesus-You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
Paul-Here is a trustworthy saying: Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task. 2Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.
 
Paul was called Barnabas was called and the gifts of the Spirit are given by Christ
Yet
Paul and Barnabas appointed elders for them in each church and, with prayer and fasting, committed them to the Lord, in whom they had put their trust.

But its irrelevant because not all who state they were called are genuine people of God. Its not a mans position that states their righteousness and that's the point. And in most larger churches it is a appointed paid position presumably on one who feels they were called by God but clearly on one who seeks the position whether genuine or not. God knows. By their fruit you will recognize them.
 
Randy said:
A true man of God doesn't bare the bad fruit you speak of and just because a man is called Pastor doesn't make that man a righteous man or validate any claim he may make about being called by God.

Despite what some may state I see it as a choice made. My neighbor is a retired Pastor and I know he is a true man of God by the Spirit when we first met and spoke. But I state again a good tree does not bare bad fruit.
This is a trustworthy saying: If anyone aspires to be an overseer, he desires a noble task.
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Any one call fall or be a false pastor or Christian
My point was that a church overseer knew this and didn't stop it .
 
Regarding our righteousness being filthy rags.

Peoples only abilities in this life are misquoting.

Men did not hear( never believed) what God had prepared for them that wait for Him. This is of course quoted in 1 Corinthians 2, how belief never enters into the heart of man, what God has prepared for them that love Him. God reveals them unto us by HIs Spirit, these deep things of God ( belief in the knowledge of Jesus Christ.)

Now, God met those who rejoice and work righteousness ( in His salvation.) as said just a few verses earlier, this is our God ( Jesus Christ.) we have waited for Him ( to perceive what God has prepared for those who wait for Him.) He will save us ( from our sins and filth) this is the Lord ( Jesus Christ) and we then are rejoicing in His salvation. Now we are clothed with those garments of salvation, covered us with the robe of righteousness ( to meet God and to WORK RIGHTEOUSNESS.) which is remembering God in His ways.

Rejoice our King comes unto us, He is just, and has salvation, lowly, and riding upon a donkey, and upon a colt the foal of a donkey.




Isaiah 25:9 And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the Lord; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.

Isaiah 61:10 I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.

Isaiah 64:4 For since the beginning of the world men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside thee, what he hath prepared for him that waiteth for him.
5 Thou meetest him that rejoiceth and worketh righteousness, those that remember thee in thy ways: behold, thou art wroth; for we have sinned: in those is continuance, and we shall be saved.
6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Zechariah 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

1 Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
 
Do pastors or any teachers show this simplicity of Christ. I know they do not. That is why all who learn from them, or speak as they do, are showing not only nothing at all, but are actively opposing the testimony of Christ. That is why they cannot agree to the testimony happening right in front of them now.
 
wondering said:
The seed falls everywhere because God gives His grace to everyone.
God makes the first move...He has to reveal Himself before you could believe in Him.
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I agree. It's WHEN he gives it that varies person to person. I don't believe the grace of God is available to all people at all times. There is a time when he starts to reveal himself to a person and that varies person to person. .
 
jasonc said:
Any one call fall or be a false pastor or Christian
My point was that a church overseer knew this and didn't stop it .
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That doesn't speak to me of a church overseer in good standing with my Lord.

When they arrived, Samuel saw Eliab and thought, “Surely the Lord’s anointed stands here before the Lord.”

7 But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The Lord does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.”
 
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