CAN A REFORMED BELIEVER FALL AWAY FROM FAITH?

[Hopeful]

I'd say that there was infiltration into the church from heretical groups.
Docism, gnosticm, arianism.
Not sure I got all the isms right, but I'm sure you know what I mean.
But they were refused and the group abolished from the church.

Not to mention the Judaizers.

Of course by the church of Christ Jesus you mean the Body of Christ.
And with this, no one can disagree.

I like to use the name the church had when Paul wrote Ephesians.
"The Church By Christ Jesus (Eph 3:21)"

 

[Hopeful]

The key was "You" put to death by the aide of the Spirit. As opposed to compelled by God against your will.

Either way, the deeds of the flesh are dead...or kept dead.

I don't know if mortify is correct usage.

Romans 8:13 Interlinear: for if according to the flesh ye do live, ye are about to die; and if, by the Spirit, the deeds of the body ye put to death, ye shall live;

biblehub.com

The word mortify, (keep dead), was in use for 400 plus years before some man felt it need to be changed.

 

[Hopeful]

Acts 20:28-30

I believe the corruption has worked its way through the dough to the point that it's basically the believer, the Bible, and the Holy Spirit now. No official clearinghouse of truth exists in these end times like it did in the days of the Apostles.

I believe that corruption has found a home with the corrupt.
But those choosing God over the world will be led by God to the truth.
We are the "clearing house"...if we speak and do the truth.

 

[Hopeful]

Not from any one organization as a whole but only individually in believers..

Don't underestimate what God can do through His children.

No denomination has the complete truth at this time.

That is not correct.
Jesus said we would know it, in John 8:32.
Thanks be to God !

 

[Cooper]

The returned don't teach that.

You really need to actually physically attend a solid one . I do.imagine if it took seven years of a process to be a pastor .do the arminist churches do that ?
That's to ensure proper doctrine .and character .

The JW's have been studying for years, and the more they do, the further away they get.
,

 

[Hopeful]

There's a condition attached to remaining in him. Reformed doctrine says that condition is always met by God in the person that He purposely created to be a believer. Non Reformed doctrine says it is incumbent upon the person to avail themselves of God's grace to meet the condition for remaining in him.

As nice as the prospect of God "pulling the strings" in my life sounds, I am not going to close my eyes while driving around town.
As much as I am in charge of my truck, so am I with my "vessel".
And God makes it all possible.

 

[rogerg]

Salvation will occur on the day of judgement.
You have "jumped the gun".
Conversion happens before salvation will happen.
You have the cart in front of the horse.

No, the cart is not in front of the horse.

"are saved" and "doth also now save us" in the below verses have been stated in the present tense, meaning they already had been saved. However, I do agree that salvation has two parts: 1) positionally in this life being placed under the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, and 2) salvation's actual manifestation in its full form at the end of time. In order to be saved at the end of time though, one must first have been saved during their lifetime as its prerequisite.

[Rev 20:6 KJV]
6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

[2Co 2:15 KJV]
15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:

[Eph 2:5-6 KJV]
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:

[1Pe 3:21 KJV]
21 The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

 

[jasonc]

The JW's have been studying for years, and the more they do, the further away they get.
,

.

Silly argument isn't ?

Reformed say ,if you are the elect then God called ,you ordained you to Holiness and santifucation ,if not you are lost .

The opposite says.if you are saved ,then it's wise to seek santifucation as God desires santifucation and it's not to be saved but because you are saved.

Not any different

The reformed say if you fell away you were never saved .

Oh there two camps of the arminists

The weselayan type .it can be lost .
The ones who do buy eternal security
And say exactly what the reformed saved. That group is the majority .

Look before group me .I am Not reformed .I attend one
I am a member and I refused to die on a some camels needle of a difference as I just stated when neither camp says sin always you want and the heresy of anatolism .I don't i,misconstrue my elders statements ,I don't agree with them nor undermine them . My pastors and one elder know I'm not reformed .

God forbid I actually do look at my arguments and others and check bias.

I was raised jw .I know that doctrine .

 

[Hopeful]

No, the cart is not in front of the horse.

"are saved" and "doth also now save us" in the below verses have been stated in the present tense, meaning they already had been saved. However, I do agree that salvation has two parts: 1) positionally in this life being placed under the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, and 2) salvation's actual manifestation in its full form at the end of time. In order to be saved at the end of time though, one must first have been saved during their lifetime as its prerequisite.

[Rev 20:6 KJV]
6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

[2Co 2:15 KJV]
15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:

[Eph 2:5-6 KJV]
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:

[1Pe 3:21 KJV]
21 The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Will you be found in the book of life if you don't turn from, (repent of), sin?
Repentance comes first, doesn't it.

 

[Cooper]

.

Silly argument isn't ?

Reformed say ,if you are the elect then God called ,you ordained you to Holiness and santifucation ,if not you are lost .

The opposite says.if you are saved ,then it's wise to seek santifucation as God desires santifucation and it's not to be saved but because you are saved.

Not any different

The reformed say if you fell away you were never saved .

Oh there two camps of the arminists

The weselayan type .it can be lost .
The ones who do buy eternal security
And say exactly what the reformed saved. That group is the majority .

Look before group me .I am Not reformed .I attend one
I am a member and I refused to die on a some camels needle of a difference as I just stated when neither camp says sin always you want and the heresy of anatolism .I don't i,misconstrue my elders statements ,I don't agree with them nor undermine them . My pastors and one elder know I'm not reformed .

God forbid I actually do look at my arguments and others and check bias.

I was raised jw .I know that doctrine .

All have sinned and come short of the Glory of God. It was inevitable this would happen, and, in His foreknowledge, God made a way of escape so that WHOSOEVER accepted his gift of salvation would enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. ALL are elected. The only thing that comes between us and God is sin and for that we need to accept God's gift of salvation which is freely offered to everyone. It has been made so easy for us. The door is wide open for everyone to enter in. Some unfortunately are not interested, while other well-meaning people put up barriers of theology and elitism that was never intended and finding difficult to navigate, the inevitable happens and souls are lost eternally.
.

 

[Niblo]

That's fine. It was stated that Jesus never said that He will remain in people. I was just showing the obvious, which is that He in fact did say it, just as wondering acknowledged.

Have a great day, Niblo!

You too!

 

[Jethro Bodine]

That is not correct.
Jesus said we would know it, in John 8:32.
Thanks be to God !

I don't think there is any one DENOMINATION that has the whole complete truth. Individually, believers will grow up into the knowledge of the truth as long as they aren't stuck in the rut of an organization's official doctrinal creed and are reading and discerning the Bible for themselves through the Holy Spirit's guidance.

Christians in general are not Bereans. If and when a Christian reads his Bible chances are he's automatically going to understand everything he reads the way his particular church understands it. Your church is going to have some things right, and other things not so right. You have to have an open mind and put your denominational presuppositions on the sidelines when reading the Bible for John 8:32 to be fulfilled in your life.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Don't underestimate what God can do through His children.

That's not what I'm addressing. I'm saying church organizations are where the truth ball is being dropped. I'm convinced you will not learn the whole truth by being locked away in the indoctrination of any one denomination's official beliefs.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I believe that corruption has found a home with the corrupt.

And that home where corruption resides is the denominational constructs of men.

But those choosing God over the world will be led by God to the truth.

Yes, the INDIVIDUAL can know the whole truth, of what truth is available to be known. But only if he is a Berean and does not restrict his personal theological construct to the theological construct of the church he's attending.

We are the "clearing house"...if we speak and do the truth.

Maybe. Depends on where we're at in our growth into the knowledge of God. A baby, still sucking the milk knowledge of the basic gospel message is not going to be a clearinghouse of truth, yet. And he never will be if he never gets off the milk message of Christianity, and if he restricts his discernment to that of what his particular denomination has told him is the one and only proper discernment of scripture.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Salvation
is that which brings forth faith and obedience - they come from salvation, and are not to salvation

If that were true then faith is not needed to be saved. But as it is, the Bible is very clear that faith is the conduit through which we are saved.

Ephesians 2:8
8For it is by grace you have been saved through faith

We are not saved before faith. We are saved THROUGH faith.

 

[Randy]

Either way, the deeds of the flesh are dead...or kept dead.

The word mortify, (keep dead), was in use for 400 plus years before some man felt it need to be changed.

As long as Christ is in me. That requires faithfulness and obedience on my part. I am free will so unless you believe God has bound your will or compelled you against your will then "your" will is involved in this union.
Hence - "remain in me" No branch apart from the vine bears fruit by itself. It needs to remain in the vine.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

As long as Christ is in me. That requires faithfulness and obedience on my part. I am free will so unless you believe God has bound your will or compelled you against your will then "your" will is involved in this union.
Hence - "remain in me" No branch apart from the vine bears fruit by itself. It needs to remain in the vine.

And this.

24As for you, let what you have heard from the beginning remain in you.

 

[Cooper]

If that were true then faith is not needed to be saved. But as it is, the Bible is very clear that faith is the conduit through which we are saved.

Ephesians 2:8
8For it is by grace you have been saved through faith

We are not saved before faith. We are saved THROUGH faith.

This should interest you Jethro on another thread by which I mean, it is the loss faith in God that causes people to backslide.
.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I once when very young believed in Santa Claus. Though I never prayed to nor worshipped Santa. That teaching didn't come from God.

Then who's eating the cookies and drinking the milk that I set out...I mean, my kids set out on the fireplace mantel every year?

 

[rogerg]

Will you be found in the book of life if you don't turn from, (repent of), sin?
Repentance comes first, doesn't it.

No, that would make salvation a work of the recipient instead of Christ.
All Christian attributes flow from, and are because of, salvation. They are not to salvation.
Christ is the Saviour in all ways, we are not.

[Tit 3:5-6 KJV]
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;