CAN A REFORMED BELIEVER FALL AWAY FROM FAITH?

[GodsGrace]

The only way Calvinists can be correct is if "God" has "bound" are "Will".
That's not what I see even in the Son let alone us nor in Jesus's teaching "remain in me"

I love Jesus and "choose" to remain in Him.
My will has not been "bound" by God.

I thought I'd add this:

If it's US that choose God, doesn't that make us more sure of our salvation?
If God chose me --- how could I be certain that He actually DID choose me?
How could I know I'm not one of those He saves for a while and then pulls the rug out from under them?
I don't think I would be sure...

 

[Randy]

This "church" wasn't doing well.

As Jesus taught keep His commands and remain in His love.
So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth.

Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent. 20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.

If they had no choice in the matter seems a little hypocritical to me. Why reward and praise those who are compelled to be in Christ regardless of their own wills and choices?
To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”

 

[Randy]

I thought I'd add this:

If it's US that choose God, doesn't that make us more sure of our salvation?
If God chose me --- how could I be certain that He actually DID choose me?
How could I know I'm not one of those He saves for a while and then pulls the rug out from under them?
I don't think I would be sure...

The person or persons who steered me to Christ from my beginning, as in those who sowed the good seed, played an important role in me being in Jesus today. I do firmly believe God makes the seed grow.

 

[rogerg]

I was purchased by the blood of Christ for God.
I am sanctified by my faith in Him.

Its call saved by grace through faith, which I fully believe.

My will has not been bound by God. I make choices.

We are saved by Christ's faith/obedience to the Father, not by ours. The faith the saved receive, is of the fruit of the Spirit, a gift from God. Were we to believe that faith is by/of our doing, then that faith would be faith in ourselves, not in Christ - he who we believe to be the cause of faith, is he in whom our faith has been placed.

[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

[Rom 1:4-6 KJV]
4 And declared [to be] the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

 

[Niblo]

There's no "if."

"Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them"

The words 'Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them' implies that there are folk who will not do this (because they choose not to). And so there most certainly is an 'if'. Randy is correct.

 

[Randy]

We are saved by Christ's faith/obedience to the Father, not by ours. The faith of those who have been saved receive, is of the fruit of the Spirit, a gift from God. Were we to believe that faith is by/of our doing, then that faith would be faith in ourselves, not in Christ - he who we believe to be the cause of faith, is he in whom our faith has been placed.

[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

[Rom 1:4-6 KJV]
4 And declared [to be] the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

Jesus to Paul
to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me

John
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

 

[rogerg]

Jesus to Paul
to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me

John
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

Faith is a gift from God given to those who have been saved by Him. Again, I think you focus on the "what", rather than of the "how". Gal 2:16 explains this more clearly than I can. It tells us that our faith is a gift given from, and by, Christ's faith, faithfulness, and obedience.

[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Doesn't your second verse end with "born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God",
saying all that had preceded it is of God's work, not ours.

[1Jo 2:27 KJV] 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

 

[rogerg]

The words 'Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them' implies that there are folk who will not do this (because they choose not to). And so there most certainly is an 'if'. Randy is correct.

Choice? Does the below verse make possible a choice?

[2Co 4:4 KJV]
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 

[GodsGrace]

The words 'Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them' implies that there are folk who will not do this (because they choose not to). And so there most certainly is an 'if'. Randy is correct.

Not only the above,
but it's written in the present tense.
We must CONTINUE in our faith. (and not fall away).

 

[GodsGrace]

Choice? Does the below verse make possible a choice?

[2Co 4:4 KJV]
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Did the god of this world blind those that believe not...
or did God predestine them to be born that way?

 

[Hopeful]

Beg pardon. Being baptised into Christ has nothing to do with angels.

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
(Rom 6:4-6 KJV)
.

I agree, but I fail to see how that tangent has any bearing on the conversation.

 

[Hopeful]

Presumably, that "group" is composed of Calvinists? I take it you attend a Calvinist church?
.

Not at all.
We are the repentant.
Turned from sin, permanently.

 

[Hopeful]

Angels "Know" and they didn't have the weakness of the flesh. They were in heaven in the very presence of God.
My point is "freewill" beings are always capable of sinning deliberately with the full knowledge of the truth.

They may have had full knowledge of the truth, but their actions showed they did not believe the truth.

I do feel its highly unlikely for one born of God to do so but its not a "never"

It is a never, as "those that are Christs' have crucified the flesh, with the vile affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)

 

[Hopeful]

No actually its "never" as "Jesus" testifies this truth.
The spirit is life the flesh counts for nothing.
Your spirit is you and man can't kill the spirit only God can.

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; 26and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”

Yikes!!!
My typo left the "n" off the "ever".
It should have read..."You will never die the second death".

 

[Hopeful]

I agree. And that's what the original Apostles were to the church. I've thought about this a lot, and I think it was inevitable their anointing simply could not be sustained in successive generations of leaders. It was doomed from the start. There was no way the leadership of the church was going to stay pure and accurate and anointed. God knew this. Thankfully, we have the Apostles words written down, and we have the ministry of the Holy Spirit to guide us into the truth.

I can't agree that God would leave successive generations to flutter in the wind.

 

[Hopeful]

That's where I'm at with it.

If they are capable of sinning, aren't they equally capable of not sinning?
Sin is a choice.

 

[Hopeful]

The problem is that's probably not true "individually".

If it isn't, the wind will, and has, blown away the chaff.

 

[Hopeful]

Reformed doctrine says it has to be this way to ensure that salvation is not by works, as if you having the choice to believe in the blood of Christ would constitute a work of self righteousness. Which, of course, is completely contrary to the Bible where believing in Christ is contrasted with the self righteous works gospel, not equated with them.

Too bad they couldn't figure out that the "works" Paul condemned were just the works of the Law.
Specifically circumcision, dietary rules, sabbath keeping, tithing, etc.
Keeping oneself righteous is not a "work for salvation".
It is the result of and ability of the reborn.

 

[Hopeful]

The teachings of the Apostles were passed down in the church and remained pure for the first couple of centuries..or until about 325AD - at the council of Nicea things began to change.

People were trying to "change" the church from the first days.
Ananias and Sapphira tried to get away with lying very early on.
The apostles were persecuted from the earliest day.
Whether by insiders or outside pressures the church has remained obedient to God throughout its history.
If a group hasn't, it isn't the church by Christ Jesus (Eph 3:21).

 

[Hopeful]

The below verse applies to all who receive this remarkable Spiritual Circumcision as incredibly described below. Is your "chooser" responsible for the Work of God? Below, there are many "I" references to who performs the work, but not a single "you" that indicates effort.

Ezekiel 36:25-27 NKJV - "Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them."

Thanks be to God for allowing me to hear, believe, and get water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of my past sins, so I could take part in God's amazing grace.