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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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CAN A REFORMED BELIEVER FALL AWAY FROM FAITH?
- Thread starter GodsGrace
- Start date
[Mat 13:13 KJV]
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
[2Pe 1:20 KJV]
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
[Gal 4:24 KJV]
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
None of that weakens Jesus's declaration of action in man in regard to seeking eternal life. "unless" "you"
And nothing has been hidden after Jesus had risen. The NT clearly shows and explains all and was written for future generations. It was Gods will for Jesus to be crucified so some things were hidden at that time.
As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus instructed them, “Don’t tell anyone what you have seen, until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead.”
It is not a question of weaken - it is a question of the fundamental intent of the verses. The "unless you" isn't providing all those being addressed with a choice for eternal life, it is saying that for anyone to respond correctly to what Christ said, they would first have been given eternal life (along with all that accompanies it) - that is, that they must have been born-again as a prerequisite to being able to comprehend the "eat of His flesh and drink of His blood" declaration. Hence the reason for Christ's statement that otherwise by not comprehending is evidence that, " ye have no life in you" - spiritual life, that is.
The verses in John 6 were not intended by God to be taken in total at face value, but to be probed more deeply by comparing them to other verses. If you think otherwise, then you would be making the same mistake the Jews of John 6:52 made and you should therefore immediately begin looking for non-existent (since He has risen) remnants of Christ's body to eat and of His blood to drink. Obviously, Christ's statements were symbolic of a deeper spiritual message. The only way to find that deeper spiritual message is to research other pertinent verses in the Bible to try to find what the symbols the body and blood of Christ are actually representative of.
The OT AND NT explains all, however, only for those so chosen and blessed God that they should gain spiritual understanding by the Holy Spirit and are they alone who will be able to correctly comprehend it - but it is not so for everyone. See the following verses.
[1Co 2:13-14 KJV]
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
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In rereading my prior post to you I realized that I had two concepts I wanted to convey but instead
of keeping them separate, I accidentally merged them - guess I'm a little tired, so I didn't communicate what I wanted to. I'll correct and repost it tomorrow. Sorry for any confusion.
You overlook the fact that God had made a covenant with those people as in they were His chosen people. The blessings promised in the law by God for obedience would not have allowed God to curse them to perish. Curses were given for disobedience even to His chosen people. The example of the rich ruler presented shows he kept Gods commands and was not evil or wicked. He couldn't make a commitment to give all his "many" possessions away. He chose to walk away. (His choice) . If he had been wise he would have accepted Jesus's offer and asked for grace to give everything away and confess he couldn't do it on his own. That's called humbling yourself before God with your faults admitted seeking mercy.
There are a lot of people in this world who would not be considered wicked or evil who do not belong to the faith just as there are wicked and evil people in the world who the gospel is veiled to them because Satan has blinded their minds.
Jesus "unless you" clearly shows action required on our part by our will.
Niblo
2024 Supporter
Exactly.
God divorced Israel for spiritual adultery/infidelity in the worshipping/following of other Gods. As a result,
its special relationship/marriage with God was terminated by God, and therefore, from that time onwards, and until the end of time, the Jews will stand on the same spiritual ground as everyone else does. God's covenant with Israel, included the stipulation that should there be infidelity, the punishment stipulation of the covenant would be invoked, which stipulation, God did invoke (Jer. 3:8 amongst other punishments). Further, God cannot legally take back nor remarry Israel, because should He do so, that would place Him in violation of His own law against the remarrying of a divorced wife (see Deu 24:4). Consequently, His covenant with Israel for blessings, would no longer be pertinent in any further of God's actions or dealings with them, except that the Saviour should be through their physical seed and that gospel should be preached to them first, which gospel, they rejected and continue to reject. However, there is another Israel, its name is the Israel of God - a spiritual Israel that consists of all those whom God had chosen to salvation from the foundation of the world. God's blessings through Christ will be upon them for evermore.
[Jer 3:8 KJV]
8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
[Deu 24:4 KJV]
4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that [is] abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee [for] an inheritance.
Of course he chose to walk away - that is the response of all of the unsaved. Because he (and they) were/are spiritually blind - it is impossible for them to choose otherwise - that which one doesn't know of, understand or believe in, it is impossible for them to choose.
[2Co 4:4 KJV] 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
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No actually God made a new covenant with the house of Israel which Jesus introduced in His blood.
The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
9 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.
Jesus is the mediator of this new everlasting covenant.
Rev 11 - This testimony is to be to the "whole world."
Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly.”
23Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.”
24He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”
25The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.
26He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”
27“Yes it is, Lord,” she said. “Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.”
28Then Jesus said to her, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed at that moment.
Paul=>not all Israel is Israel
It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring
While the ratio wasn't good Jesus still had many children in Israel. If their descendants "remained" in the faith they are most likely known as Christian's in this day and age as Jesus is called Christ. They are hidden in the body of Christ from man. But the same Spirit that was gifted to them has also been gifted among the gentile nations. Now as it is written, "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ"
In keeping along the lines of your thought even though all Israel wasn't Israel "all" Israel will be saved. Those that can listen will come to the faith through the signs given in Rev 11 as it unfolds in Jerusalem and in Zech 14 God makes a way of escape from the surrounding armies by splitting the mount of olives in two. The armies defeated by the Lord not man.
Different Israels - the earthly nation of Israel as opposed to spiritual Israel.
The elect are the people of spiritual Israel - it is to them that God's eternal promises pertain. The Israel of God includes some of the Jews and of the Gentiles- those whom God had chosen - the Jews not chosen because they are of the nation of Israel but because they were elected individually by God- not all of earthly Israel are.
[Rom 9:25 KJV]
25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
[Rom 9:6-9 KJV]
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Spiritual Israel
I'm not saying there won't be Jews who are saved, I'm saying those that are, are, not because they are of earthly
Israel but because they were elected of God. My point is that earthly Israel's special role with had God ended.
No one can listen spiritually unless they are given ears that can hear things spiritual. They must be blessed by
God with that hearing - only those so blessed can.
Anyone who is one with Christ, who is the seed, is considered an offspring of Abraham and they are heirs according to the promise. (Spiritual) Those God calls His Children -children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God and this began in Israel.
God did not divorce Israel He made a new covenant with them which Jesus introduced by His blood. Jesus's ministry was in Israel as in seeking the lost sheep of Israel. Jesus is the mediator of the new covenant.
Acts 21:20 When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: “You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law.
Acts 2:41 Those who embraced his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to the believers that day.
Hebrews
“This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.”
You stated God divorced Israel. He made a new covenant with them. Only those that rejected Christ were cut off as the old covenant was obsolete. The gentiles were never in that old covenant and so were not cut off but can enter into that new covenant through Christ.
Those God calls His children which is set in stone forever
Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.
No. God did divorce earthly Israel. The verse that I posted beyond debate tell us that. As being divorced from them, God COULD NOT legally institute another covenant with earthly Israel. Again, that doesn't mean there aren't Jews who will become saved, but those that are, are, not because they are of earthly Israel, but because they were individually chosen of God for such, the same way that everyone else who becomes saved is- that they are of God's elect. All people now stand before God on exactly the same ground. If you look at the following verse, you can see that God had " given her a bill of divorce" and once given, they cannot remarry. God then became betrothed to Christ's true church instead.
[Jer 3:8 KJV] 8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
Those of spiritual Israel, not earthly Israel.
Yes beyond debate - who was this given/promised to?
“The days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah.
Who and when and where was that covenant introduced first?
First for the Jew then the gentile.
But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs.
In the beginning, and present and future how does one enter into that covenant?
Who are those that God calls His children?
Are not all declared one people and one family in Christ?
God's divorcing of earthly Israel happened long before Christ. That divorce was predicated upon its adultery, fornication, and the following of other gods, which God had so warned and stipulated in His covenant with them that He would do. It did not occur because He entered into a new or replacement covenant with earthly Israel.
[Deu 30:15-19 KJV]
15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, [and that] ye shall not prolong [your] days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.
19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
Not earthly Israel, but spiritual Israel. God, at the same time, cannot have two brides. It is clear that He
takes Christ's true church alone for His bride. So, He can't then be married to earthly Israel too, otherwise,
besides it being illegal, two plans of salvation would be required: one for the true church; the other for earthly Israel. But,
we know there can only be one plan of salvation and therefore, one bride, the church.
They enter into that covenant because God had chosen them for it. All of those chosen alone are brought into
the covenant. I guess I'm not following your point. All of the elect, regardless of their national origin (to include Jews), race, creed, and any other division you can think of, if they are of God's elect, then they are His children, His brethren, and of His covenant, and I don't think that I ever implied nor insinuated otherwise.
Its not first for the gentile and then the Jew. And despite what you state there was a distinction noted between Jew and gentile.
And Gods promise was not to all jews but the offspring of Jacob.
So children of the promise in that context.
No such promises were made to gentiles as was made to Jacobs offspring. So they is no prechosen in that context. And gentiles had no covenant relationship with God to be cut off from. So there is not that context either. In other words God doesn't need to reserve to Himself gentiles so that His promises won't fail. Whosoever calls on the Lord will be saved. And if anyone is in Christ they are Abrahams seed and heirs according to the promise.
Those who are saved are saved by what Christ accomplished, not by physical linage.
Then it can't be because they are of Israel, otherwise, all of the Jews must be saved yet they won't be.
God chose the offspring of Jacob for the exact purpose of demonstrating that they are not
saved because they are of the earthly Israel, but because they are of the spiritual seed of Jacob.
The offspring of Jacob regarding salvation, are his spiritual not his physical offspring.
[Rom 9:8 KJV]
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
The Galatians were not Jews, yet Paul directly ties them to Isaac and Abraham, and declares them children of the promise. Again, it was directed to the Galatians not to physical Jews or Israel.
[Gal 4:28 KJV]
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
[Gal 3:29 KJV]
29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Yes, in fact, God did have to reserve to Himself all (Jew and gentile) whom He had planned to save. That was God's promise. No one besides those of His promise can be saved whether Jew or Gentile. That is, only those of the promise can/do call upon the name of the Lord but only because they had been saved. The "saved" of your post (above) is the completion of salvation which occurs at the end of time in the full manifestation of the inheritance.
[1Co 15:50 KJV]
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.