CAN A REFORMED BELIEVER FALL AWAY FROM FAITH?

[electedbyHim]

But all Christians believe God is sovereign.

I believe God created everything, including the laws of nature. Apples fall downward, the earth spins just right. Etc.

When God intervenes, it's a miracle.
If He's moving everything that happens, then He's just using us to play a big video game

Did you see no. 1077?

Yes I did see that post. The only free will man has is to sin.

Is it really a miracle or sovereignty?

God sovereignly owns and controls creation

A. His complete ownership of creation

1. 1 Chronicles 29:11-12 Yours, O LORD, is the greatness, The power and the glory, The victory and the majesty; For all that is in heaven and in earth is Yours; Yours is the kingdom, O LORD, And You are exalted as head over all. 12 Both riches and honor come from You, And You reign over all. In Your hand is power and might; In Your hand it is to make great And to give strength to all.

2. Job 34:13 Who gave Him charge over the earth? Or who appointed Him over the whole world?

3. Psalms 50:10-12 For every beast of the forest is Mine, And the cattle on a thousand hills. 11 I know all the birds of the mountains, And the wild beasts of the field are Mine. 12 "If I were hungry, I would not tell you; For the world is Mine, and all its fullness.


B. His complete control of creation

1. Psalms 107:25,29 For He commands and raises the stormy wind, Which lifts up the waves of the sea. 29 He calms the storm, So that its waves are still.

2. Jeremiah 5:22 Do you not fear Me?' says the LORD. 'Will you not tremble at My presence, Who have placed the sand as the bound of the sea, By a perpetual decree, that it cannot pass beyond it? And though its waves toss to and fro, Yet they cannot prevail; Though they roar, yet they cannot pass over it.

3. Job 26:12-14 He stirs up the sea with His power, And by His understanding He breaks up the storm. 13 By His Spirit He adorned the heavens; His hand pierced the fleeing serpent. 14 Indeed these are the mere edges of His ways, And how small a whisper we hear of Him! But the thunder of His power who can understand?"

4. Psalms 148:4-8 Praise Him, you heavens of heavens, And you waters above the heavens! 5 Let them praise the name of the LORD, For He commanded and they were created. 6 He also established them forever and ever; He made a decree which shall not pass away. 7 Praise the LORD from the earth, You great sea creatures and all the depths; 8 Fire and hail, snow and clouds; Stormy wind, fulfilling His word;

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes I did see that post. The only free will man has is to sin.

Is it really a miracle or sovereignty?

God sovereignly owns and controls creation

A. His complete ownership of creation

1. 1 Chronicles 29:11-12 Yours, O LORD, is the greatness, The power and the glory, The victory and the majesty; For all that is in heaven and in earth is Yours; Yours is the kingdom, O LORD, And You are exalted as head over all. 12 Both riches and honor come from You, And You reign over all. In Your hand is power and might; In Your hand it is to make great And to give strength to all.

2. Job 34:13 Who gave Him charge over the earth? Or who appointed Him over the whole world?

3. Psalms 50:10-12 For every beast of the forest is Mine, And the cattle on a thousand hills. 11 I know all the birds of the mountains, And the wild beasts of the field are Mine. 12 "If I were hungry, I would not tell you; For the world is Mine, and all its fullness.


B. His complete control of creation

1. Psalms 107:25,29 For He commands and raises the stormy wind, Which lifts up the waves of the sea. 29 He calms the storm, So that its waves are still.

2. Jeremiah 5:22 Do you not fear Me?' says the LORD. 'Will you not tremble at My presence, Who have placed the sand as the bound of the sea, By a perpetual decree, that it cannot pass beyond it? And though its waves toss to and fro, Yet they cannot prevail; Though they roar, yet they cannot pass over it.

3. Job 26:12-14 He stirs up the sea with His power, And by His understanding He breaks up the storm. 13 By His Spirit He adorned the heavens; His hand pierced the fleeing serpent. 14 Indeed these are the mere edges of His ways, And how small a whisper we hear of Him! But the thunder of His power who can understand?"

4. Psalms 148:4-8 Praise Him, you heavens of heavens, And you waters above the heavens! 5 Let them praise the name of the LORD, For He commanded and they were created. 6 He also established them forever and ever; He made a decree which shall not pass away. 7 Praise the LORD from the earth, You great sea creatures and all the depths; 8 Fire and hail, snow and clouds; Stormy wind, fulfilling His word;

Agreed.
Bit why can't God be sovereign AND allow us to have free will?

Is He fearful of our free will?
Then He wouldn't really be sovereign.

A truly powerful entity fears nothing.

 

[electedbyHim]

Agreed.
Bit why can't God be sovereign AND allow us to have free will?

Is He fearful of our free will?
Then He wouldn't really be sovereign.

A truly powerful entity fears nothing.

Who said He is afraidr of what He created?

He already knows what you are going to do before you do it.

Read Psalm 139.

Grace and peace to you

 

[GodsGrace]

Who said He is afraidr of what He created?

He already knows what you are going to do before you do it.

Read Psalm 139.

Grace and peace to you

God gave us reason.
My reason tells me God has no fear of His creatures being endowed with free will.
This is because He is sovereign.

The reformed have a problem accepting a truly sovereign God.

 

[Free]

God gave us reason.
My reason tells me God has no fear of His creatures being endowed with free will.
This is because He is sovereign.

The reformed have a problem accepting a truly sovereign God.

A truly sovereign God is in control of everything and uses everything to achieve his purposes. It is actually the Armenian position where the problem with God’s sovereignty lies.

The issue with free will is that we don’t have absolute free will; it’s within bounds that God has given.

 

[electedbyHim]

God gave us reason.
My reason tells me God has no fear of His creatures being endowed with free will.
This is because He is sovereign.

The reformed have a problem accepting a truly sovereign God.

How so?

Who is reformed?

Am I reformed because I believe what the Bible teaches.

Are you an Arminian because you believe you have free will?

 

[GodsGrace]

A truly sovereign God is in control of everything and uses everything to achieve his purposes. It is actually the Armenian position where the problem with God’s sovereignty lies.

The issue with free will is that we don’t have absolute free will; it’s within bounds that God has given.

Don't know what the arminian position is.
Don't know what you mean by absolute free will.
Why complicate?
Free will means our will is free to decide.

God will achieve what He wants to achieve but not at the expense of our free will.

 

[GodsGrace]

How so?

Who is reformed?

Am I reformed because I believe what the Bible teaches.

Are you an Arminian because you believe you have free will?

How so what?

Whoever is reformed, is reformed.

The bible teaches that man has free will.
From Genesis to Revelation.

I don't know what an arminian is.
I follow Jesus, not a man.

 

[electedbyHim]

Don't know what the arminian position is.
Don't know what you mean by absolute free will.
Why complicate?
Free will means our will is free to decide.

God will achieve what He wants to achieve but not at the expense of our free will.

That is what the Arminian believes.

Not Biblical.

 

[electedbyHim]

How so what?

Whoever is reformed, is reformed.

The bible teaches that man has free will.
From Genesis to Revelation.

I don't know what an arminian is.
I follow Jesus, not a man.

Jesus only or the whole Biblical truth?

Your understanding of Biblical doctrine is of the Arminian position, also known as synergism.

 

[electedbyHim]

Synergism comes from mans pride.

Monergism is of the Lord.

 

[GodsGrace]

That is what the Arminian believes.

Not Biblical.

I disagree with your belief system.
I don't understand it, actually.
Question:
Does choice denote our ability to choose between two options?

 

[GodsGrace]

Jesus only or the whole Biblical truth?

Your understanding of Biblical doctrine is of the Arminian position, also known as synergism.

Ok
I know SYNERGISM and I do agree to that.
Except that the reformed explain it incorrectly.
You'll say, maybe, that I have to help God save me and that's incorrect.

 

[electedbyHim]

I disagree with your belief system.
I don't understand it, actually.
Question:
Does choice denote our ability to choose between two options?

I know you do not understand and that is ok.

There is choices, for the unregenerated sinner, everything they choose is sinful because it comes from a sinful heart.

Isaiah says, even the good they do comes from a woman's menstruel rag. Isaiah 64:6. It is motivated by pride. Mother Theresa comes to mind.

For those who are regenerated, the good they do is motivated by Holy Spirit.

When you do something good, is the motivation because it makes you feel good, or is it to bring glory to the Lord?

 

[electedbyHim]

Ok
I know SYNERGISM and I do agree to that.
Except that the reformed explain it incorrectly.
You'll say, maybe, that I have to help God save me and that's incorrect.

Do you pray for you unsaved friends to choose Jesus?

Or do you pray that the Lord saves them?

 

[GodsGrace]

I know you do not understand and that is ok.

There is choices, for the unregenerated sinner, everything they choose is sinful because it comes from a sinful heart.

Do you mean that an unsaved person cannot do anything good? Because they do.

Or do you mean that they can but it doesn't matter to God because they're not born from above as John 3?

Isaiah says, even the good they do comes from a woman's menstruel rag. Isaiah 64:6. It is motivated by pride. Mother Theresa comes to mind.

Guess it's no. 2
With which I agree, and every other Christian.
Faith without works is a dead faith.
Works without faith are dead works.

For those who are regenerated, the good they do is motivated by Holy Spirit.

I'd say motivated by the Holy Spirit
And the carry through made possible by the Holy Spirit.

When you do something good, is the motivation because it makes you feel good, or is it to bring glory to the Lord?

1 Cor 10:31

For me personally...
If someone knows we're Christian and see us do good, it does bring glory to God.
But it makes me happy to please God.
The best that I can, of course.

 

[electedbyHim]

Do you mean that an unsaved person cannot do anything good? Because they do.

I mean their motivated by pride.

Sin.

 

[GodsGrace]

Do you pray for you unsaved friends to choose Jesus?

Or do you pray that the Lord saves them?

Interesting question.

I pray that they see God's light and respond to it.
Or maybe feel His grace...

I never pray PLEASE SAVE HIM.

 

[GodsGrace]

I mean their motivated by pride.

Sin.

Agreed.
Pride and egotism lead to many sins.
I'm trying to think of someone I know that is atheist and quietly does good.
Not coming up with anyone right now...
Anyway, it wouldn't give the glory to God.

You didn't answer my question.
Does choice denote free will ?

 

[electedbyHim]

Interesting question.

I pray that they see God's light and respond to it.
Or maybe feel His grace...

I never pray PLEASE SAVE HIM.

Thank you for your honesty.

Romans 10:1-2 Brothers, my heart’s desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.