Confronting the doctrine of sinless perfection with 1 Corinthians 3:1-4 and Colossians 3:5-10

[Carry_Your_Name]

Where is your proof ?
As I have done nothing but obey God, His Son, and the apostles, there isn't anything for me to be proud of.

Really? Aren't you proud of your "sinless perfection"? Aren't you looking inward instead of upward and outward all the time?

Your rejection of my words is noted, but that doesn't make what I write erroneous.

It is erroneous not because of my rejection, but because it's contrary to the Scripture.

As John wrote in 1 John 5;17, "All unrighteousness is sin..."
I don't need the Torah for that.
So, with all your knowledge of the Torah, how has that helped you remain pure ?

Unlike you, I have the honesty, dignity and sobriety to see that I'm not pure, I'm a sinner in need of the Lord's cleansing flow to wash me clean! Jesus came not to destroy the law, but to fulfill the law.

All Paul's learning, and knowledge of the Torah, and still he was just another sinning Jew.
There goes you logic on knowledge.

And yet, his heritage a great advantage for Paul:

"What advantage then has the Jew, or what is the profit of circumcision? Much in every way! Chiefly because to them were committed the oracles of God." (Rom. 3:1-2)

If there is no sin, there is nothing to deny.

And there goes your denial, which proves Rom. 7:7.

I hope you will some day believe Gal 5:24..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."

I hope you will some day believe Rom. 12:1 - "present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service."
And btw, please note that Paul said BODIES, your "earthly vessels, carrying cases" which you so despise.

There is some more false teaching you've bought into.
Sanctification happens when the blood of the Sanctifier is applied to your body.
It happens when we are "immersed" into Christ and into His death.
Of course if the repentance from sin was a lie, the whole deal is off.

The false teaching is yours. What you've described is the justification, not sanctification. Justification is the start of spiritual growth, not the end. It's not a one and done deal. This is why you are made into believing that you're sinlessly perfect, you don't need Jesus any more.

As I was referring to Galatians and Romans. your side-track is a moot point.

No, that's just measure for measure. I asked you about James, you sidetracked first with Galatians and Romans.

Is this how you react every time someone teaches you about things you don't know already ?

This is how I react to a false teacher who spreads the seeds of heresy among God's mission field.

"Immune to sin"...interesting concept.
Do you beleive James 4:7 ?..."Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you."

And you accuse me of "sidetracking" when I quoted James?

By they way, those perfectly obedient to God need Christ as much or more than the lost.
Jesus is far more than just a physician.
The lost need Him for their eventual salvation, but the converted need Him for every phase of daily life.

Resist the devil and he will flee from you !

Then you're not converted, because you lecture on me that Jesus is a one and done deal, once you're "immersed into Christ and into His death", you're sinlessly perfect and perfectly obedient, no need for him anymore.

 

[Hopeful 2]

A true child of God, who stewards his father's creation and cares about it more than anybody else.

Though I agree with the "more than anybody else" portion of your post, this world is just going to be burned to a crisp.
So too will all the sinners be devoured by flame.

I don't believe you. Nobody is insulated from the world without any influence to them on a personal level.

I don't care what the world does or doesn't do.
My only influencer is Christ Jesus.

The way you describe it, you don't forgive, you ignore, you pretend sin doesn't exist.

You misread me.

All above is your heresies and self-righteousness.

Forgiveness of those who sin against us is a commandment of the Lord.
Not really heretical at all.

No, John is only writing to one group, the church. The Father chastises and disciplines his own.

You must have misread me again.
John is writing to the church.
He is writing about two different kinds of men.
Those who walk in darkness-sin and those who walk in the light-God.

"I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit." (Jn. 15:1-2)

Glad He made a way to keep from bearing evil fruit !

Don't you know these verse marks didn't exist in the original text? That John originally wrote this as one cohesive passage?

Yes I do know that.
John's A-B, A-B, A-B, style of writing doesn't need numbers for the verses/sentences.
But I don't reject them now.

Great, more heresy, denial of the original sin!

Oh, your Catholic.
I rejected their tenets long ago.

Just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned. (Rom. 5:12)

What sin did Jesus commit ?
Enoch ?
John the Baptist ?
Samuel ?
Elijah ?

Yes you are, don't bother to deny. You have only one perspective of dualistic gnosticism - mind over matter, spirit good, body bad.

Do you know what juxtapose means ?
How can the vessel be good or bad ?
The mind is what causes its reputation.

Neither good nor bad? Last time I checked, God made male and female in His image, and it was VERY good! (Gen. 1:31)

They sure were good, on the day God spoke those words.
But as so many now defend sin with ungodly doctrines and even legal means, the body has earned the destruction that is coming.
The carrying case of the wicked is going to end up in the lake of fire.

Oh no, you're very explicit at what you think - the heresy of "sinless perfection". You've been oozing with pride, looking down on others as unwashed heathens.

As the ability to obey God perfectly isn't a heresy at all, your point is moot.
What is it exactly that keeps you in disobedience ?

Church is the Body of Christ, we're taught to partake in his body, to eat his flesh and drink his blood! How could you say it's just a "vessel" when the Lord's own flesh and blood are the essence of eternal life? How is that perfect obedience to God?

My body is just a vessel.

Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.” (Jn. 6:53-58)

Is your body food ?
Is your blood drink ?

You wouldn't have been so obsessed with yourself and your pet heresy if you have truly repented and quit sinning.

Obsessed doesn't cover the half of it !
Jesus died so we no longer half to walk in the flesh.
To keep defending sin, like you do, nullifies His every deed.

I know, you don't.

I knew the gravity and consequences of sin well before I turned from them and unto God.
Are you saying that because you have not yet repented that you don't yet know the gravity or consequences of sin ?

You don't look to Jesus as the model of sinless perfection, you look to yourself in the mirror

Sinning after having repented of sin, just makes the prior repentance a lie to God.

Do you beleive James 4:7 ?..."Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you."

 

[Hopeful 2]

Really? Aren't you proud of your "sinless perfection"? Aren't you looking inward instead of upward and outward all the time?

I am only proud of what Jesus endured on our behalf.
To endure the sufferings and death He experienced is beyond imagining.

It is erroneous not because of my rejection, but because it's contrary to the Scripture.

Show me one scripture from the NT that says we can't live without sinning.
Here are a few more saying we can...
“I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me." (John 17:22-23)
“Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.For he that is dead is freed from sin.” (Rom. 6:6-7)
"Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness." (Rom 6:18)
"But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life." (Rom 6:22)

Unlike you, I have the honesty, dignity and sobriety to see that I'm not pure,

Sounds like an oxymoron.
No honest person can defend sinning.

I'm a sinner in need of the Lord's cleansing flow to wash me clean! Jesus came not to destroy the law, but to fulfill the law.

Well here is the answer to your need..."Repent, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and you will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38)
Without a real repentance from sin, though, there is no cleansing.

And yet, his heritage a great advantage for Paul:
"What advantage then has the Jew, or what is the profit of circumcision? Much in every way! Chiefly because to them were committed the oracles of God." (Rom. 3:1-2)

Paul knew how to approach the Jewish sinners, and to illustrate being dead to sin by the Law.

And there goes your denial, which proves Rom. 7:7.

As I said already, "If there is no sin, there is nothing to deny."

I hope you will some day believe Rom. 12:1 - "present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service."
And btw, please note that Paul said BODIES, your "earthly vessels, carrying cases" which you so despise.

I do believe it, and I beleive it is possible.
Why don't you beleive it ?
Where did I say I despise anything...but sin ?

The false teaching is yours. What you've described is the justification, not sanctification. Justification is the start of spiritual growth, not the end. It's not a one and done deal. This is why you are made into believing that you're sinlessly perfect, you don't need Jesus any more.

Justification and sanctification happen at he same time.
At the application of the justifying, sanctifying, atoning, consecrating blood of Jesus Christ.
Rom 5:9..."Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him."
Heb 10:10..."By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."
Heb 10:29..."Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

This is how I react to a false teacher who spreads the seeds of heresy among God's mission field.

All those preaching righteousness must seem like terrible people to you.
How about Peter ?
"But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy." (1 Peter 1:15-16)
"Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1 Peter 4:1)
Is he such a horrible person ?

And you accuse me of "sidetracking" when I quoted James?

I take that as a "NO"...you don't beleive that if you resist the devil he will flee from you.
You should, because it is true !

Then you're not converted, because you lecture on me that Jesus is a one and done deal, once you're "immersed into Christ and into His death", you're sinlessly perfect and perfectly obedient, no need for him anymore.

Your perspective of life in and for Christ puzzles me.
How can having access to the source of our power to remain free make you think we don't need Him anymore ?
I do, however, see your perspective in the lives of those who think they are forever destined to hate God.
They must think... "who need Jesus if He has no power" ?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Though I agree with the "more than anybody else" portion of your post, this world is just going to be burned to a crisp.
So too will all the sinners be devoured by flame.

Sure, let the world burn to a crisp, flush it down the toilet, you don't know and you don't care. That's called apathy.

I don't care what the world does or doesn't do.
My only influencer is Christ Jesus.

Strangely, Jesus cares waht the world does or doesn't do. He came to save this world which you don't give a damn. "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved." John 3:17

You misread me.

I read you loud and clear.

Forgiveness of those who sin against us is a commandment of the Lord.
Not really heretical at all.

What's heretical is "sinless perfection." If there's no sin, then how could anybody sin against you in the first place?

You must have misread me again.
John is writing to the church.
He is writing about two different kinds of men.
Those who walk in darkness-sin and those who walk in the light-God.

If he's writing to the church, then he's only writing to one kind of men, not two.

Yes I do know that.
John's A-B, A-B, A-B, style of writing doesn't need numbers for the verses/sentences.
But I don't reject them now.

No you don't. You made up this "style" based on the verse marks which didn't exist in the original text, nor was it John's intention to make this contrast.

Oh, your Catholic.
I rejected their tenets long ago.

Neither am I Catholic, nor is original sin a unique Catholic tenet. You've greatly mistaken.

What sin did Jesus commit ?
Enoch ?
John the Baptist ?
Samuel ?
Elijah ?

If Jesus had committed any sin, he wouldn't be able to die for our sins. As for the others, none of them died for my sins.

Do you know what juxtapose means ?
How can the vessel be good or bad ?
The mind is what causes its reputation.

Do you know what a temple for the Holy Spirit means? That we were made in the image of God and bought with the precious blood of Christ? God cares about both our physical and spiritual wellbeing, how could you disregard it as nothing?

They sure were good, on the day God spoke those words.
But as so many now defend sin with ungodly doctrines and even legal means, the body has earned the destruction that is coming.
The carrying case of the wicked is going to end up in the lake of fire.

Wrong, the "carrying case" returns to the dust, it is the eternal soul that goes down into the Lake of Fire. You can't get your own theology straight and you're here lecturing on me.

As the ability to obey God perfectly isn't a heresy at all, your point is moot.
What is it exactly that keeps you in disobedience ?

What is it exactly that keeps you in your pride and complacency?

My body is just a vessel.

Then you're a robot. A puppet.

Is your body food ?
Is your blood drink ?

No, that's why I must partake in the Lord's flesh and blood. You don't, you have no life in you, that explains why you feel you're nothing but a hollowed out "vessel".

Obsessed doesn't cover the half of it !
Jesus died so we no longer half to walk in the flesh.
To keep defending sin, like you do, nullifies His every deed.

You're killing the messenger who warns you about sin and corrects you about the timeline. Has Jesus returned? Are you physically resurrected? If not, then you're still in your flesh.

I knew the gravity and consequences of sin well before I turned from them and unto God.
Are you saying that because you have not yet repented that you don't yet know the gravity or consequences of sin ?

I know, you don't.

Sinning after having repented of sin, just makes the prior repentance a lie to God.

Do you beleive James 4:7 ?..."Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you."

Do you believe James 1:14-15? "But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death."

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I am only proud of what Jesus endured on our behalf.
To endure the sufferings and death He experienced is beyond imagining.

Then how could you deny the existence and gravity of sin, which He suffered and died for?

Show me one scripture from the NT that says we can't live without sinning.

Already did, James 1:14-15 and many others. You reject all of them because out of your pride, you don't think those apply on you.

Sounds like an oxymoron.
No honest person can defend sinning.

I don't defend sinning, I admit reality, I don't live in the delusion of "sinless perfection" as I know only Jesus is sinlessly perfect, neither you nor I is.

Without a real repentance from sin, though, there is no cleansing.

Says he who denies the existence of original sin.

Paul knew how to approach the Jewish sinners, and to illustrate being dead to sin by the Law.

Paul also knew that the law is like a mirror that exposes sin. If you've got dirt on your face, smash the mirror doesn't cleanse you of that dirt.

As I said already, "If there is no sin, there is nothing to deny."

As I said already, there goes your denial, which proves Rom. 7:7.

I do believe it, and I beleive it is possible.
Why don't you beleive it ?
Where did I say I despise anything...but sin ?

Haven't you boasted that you no longer walk in flesh that causes you to sin?

Justification and sanctification happen at he same time.

Then why are new believers still "babes in Christ"? if they're justified and sancified once for all? Why not sinlessly perfect equals of Christ? And why still of the flesh?

Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up into salvation. (1 Pt. 2:2)
But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, for you are still of the flesh. (1 Cor. 3:1-2)
For everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. (Heb. 5:13)

All those preaching righteousness must seem like terrible people to you.
How about Peter ?

Peter preached real righteousness, you preach self righteousness.

I take that as a "NO"...you don't beleive that if you resist the devil he will flee from you.
You should, because it is true !

Again, says you who don't believe sin is real. I've been resisting you for a long time, why haven't you fled from me?

Your perspective of life in and for Christ puzzles me.
How can having access to the source of our power to remain free make you think we don't need Him anymore ?
I do, however, see your perspective in the lives of those who think they are forever destined to hate God.
They must think... "who need Jesus if He has no power" ?

The right question is. "who needs Jesus if I have so sin?" Isn't that your perspective?

 

[JJonas]

Thank you for pin-pointing your question more fully.

Thank you for addressing my questions!

You regard those labeled carnal, as brothers in Christ.
Paul always speaks to the churches with a grain of salt, not willing to just cast them away, but with hope that they will correct their errors.
For if they don't heed his chastisements they will be lost.
The chastised are at the point of staying in the faith or leaving it.
In their present state, pre-chastisement, they are not brothers in Christ anymore.
They are walking after the "flesh" and not after the Spirit; which won't accept the things Paul is correcting.

Paul always called a spade a spade. Lost people he called lost people; people in danger concerning salvation, he called them as being in danger concerning salvation. But that's not the language he used with those labeled carnal: he calls them “brethen” and “in Christ”!

I Cor 3:1: And I, BRETHEN, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes IN CHRIST

But you wrote “that they are not brothers in Christ anymore”! This is to imply that the Scripture is lying to us! Or do you think that the scripture says in vain (James 4:5)?

I believe I will stop here. It is more and more clear to me that you are doing violence to the Scripture to force it to fit with your theological convictions! Common ground for discussion should be untwisted Scripture, but this common ground I don't see in our discussion!

As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. (2 Peter 3:15)

This is a serious warning to you from Scripture and I sincerely hope that you will heed it and humbly seek God for revelation because your soul is at stake! Or at least, understand that God resists the proud, but gives grace unto the humble (James 4:6), and follow the example of humility of David and pray like him: Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting (Ps 139:23-24)

 

[Hopeful 2]

Sure, let the world burn to a crisp, flush it down the toilet, you don't know and you don't care. That's called apathy.

If it was apathy, why am I preaching the thing that can free men from bondage ?

Strangely, Jesus cares waht the world does or doesn't do.

No, He cares what men do.

He came to save this world which you don't give a damn. "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved." John 3:17

My presence here shows the error of your post.
If I didn't care about you, and every one else who reads this, I wouldn't tell you that there is an escape from the wrath to come.

What's heretical is "sinless perfection." If there's no sin, then how could anybody sin against you in the first place?

It is odd that you would end up with that idea.
There is plenty of sin out in the world, being committed by the servants of sin.
Not everyone serves the one true Master.

If he's writing to the church, then he's only writing to one kind of men, not two.

Hopefully, but still John is writhing ABOUT two kinds of men.
Those who walk in light-God, and those who walk in darkness-sin.

No you don't. You made up this "style" based on the verse marks which didn't exist in the original text, nor was it John's intention to make this contrast.

Paul uses the same system in Rom 8, juxtaposing those who walk in the "flesh" with those who walk in the Spirit.
We are presented with such obvious dissimilarities that it is easy to see where we stand in both Rom 8 and 1 John 1.

Neither am I Catholic, nor is original sin a unique Catholic tenet. You've greatly mistaken.

You were presenting a catholic doctrine as if it were some sort of truth.

If Jesus had committed any sin, he wouldn't be able to die for our sins.

True.

As for the others, none of them died for my sins.

True, and neither is there any sin committed by them to be written about.

Do you know what a temple for the Holy Spirit means?

Yes, I do...a sanctified place for the residency of the Holy Ghost.

That we were made in the image of God and bought with the precious blood of Christ?

Blood so expensive that I dare not ever again offend the shedder of said blood.

God cares about both our physical and spiritual wellbeing, how could you disregard it as nothing?

Yes He does, but the vessel is incapable of committing sin.
The mind is at fault.
Thanks be to God, we get a new mind at our rebirth form God's seed !
That gives us power over the skin and bones that so many blame for sin.

Wrong, the "carrying case" returns to the dust, it is the eternal soul that goes down into the Lake of Fire. You can't get your own theology straight and you're here lecturing on me.

Then why are you so defensive about it ?

What is it exactly that keeps you in your pride and complacency?

I'll ask again, as you have picked up the bad habit of not answering my questions...
As the ability to obey God perfectly isn't a heresy at all, your point is moot.
What is it exactly that keeps you in disobedience ?

Then you're a robot. A puppet.

As long as the "you" you refer to is just the skin and bones vessel, you are correct !
My new, godly focused, mind is the string puller now.
Paul notes his own freedom from the "flesh" in Rom 7:25..."I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; ..."

No, that's why I must partake in the Lord's flesh and blood.

Do you think that is a good idea ?
If you can't cease from sin, as you keep affirming, are we not warned that taking the Lord's supper unworthily may cause sickness and even death ?
It is written..."Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. (1 Cor 11:17-29)

You don't, you have no life in you, that explains why you feel you're nothing but a hollowed out "vessel".

I have a new vessel that was gendered by the seed of God.
Scripture says..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God," (1 John 3:9-10)
Did you catch that "cannot sin" part ?

You're killing the messenger who warns you about sin and corrects you about the timeline. Has Jesus returned? Are you physically resurrected? If not, then you're still in your flesh.

I am reminded of the mote and beam parable.

There is a difference between "flesh" and skin and bones.
"Flesh" refers to the worldly oriented, sinning men.
Skin and bones brings us back to the "carrying case".

I know, you don't.

Mistaken again.

Do you believe James 1:14-15? "But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death."

I do beleive it, and that belief causes me to rejoice over Gal 5:24..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."
With no "flesh", no vile affections, and no lusts, there can be no sin !!!!!
I do hope you beleive Gal 5:24.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Then how could you deny the existence and gravity of sin, which He suffered and died for?

I don't deny the existence and gravity of sin.
In fast, I abhorred sin so much that I searched for, and found, the way to quit committing sin.

Already did, James 1:14-15 and many others. You reject all of them because out of your pride, you don't think those apply on you.

Your James 1 scripture refers to those who still have "flesh" and lusts.
As Christians have neither, your scripture can't prove ongoing sin is of God.
It is written..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)

I don't defend sinning, I admit reality, I don't live in the delusion of "sinless perfection" as I know only Jesus is sinlessly perfect, neither you nor I is.

Your admission of sin reveals a lack of repentance from sin and rebirth from God's seed.
Your inference is that sin is the fruit of God's seed.

Says he who denies the existence of original sin.

There was a first sin.
Original sin a is a doctrine of a false church.

Paul also knew that the law is like a mirror that exposes sin. If you've got dirt on your face, smash the mirror doesn't cleanse you of that dirt.

Are you not glad that we can be dead to the Law now ?

As I said already, there goes your denial, which proves Rom. 7:7.

Are you still living according to the Law ?
Is circumcision necessary for salvation ?

Haven't you boasted that you no longer walk in flesh that causes you to sin?

Just stated the fact.
The "flesh" was crucified with Christ, at my baptism into Christ's death and burial. (Rom 6:3)

Then why are new believers still "babes in Christ"? if they're justified and sancified once for all? Why not sinlessly perfect equals of Christ? And why still of the flesh?

All will grow in grace and knowledge with time.
"Sinlessly perfect with Christ" is the result of rebirth from the same seed He was gendered from.
And, not in the "flesh" now, but in the Spirit !

Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up into salvation. (1 Pt. 2:2)
But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, for you are still of the flesh. (1 Cor. 3:1-2)
For everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. (Heb. 5:13)

Just as Paul points out in Rom 8, there are two kinds of people.
Those who walk in and after the "flesh", and those who walk in and after the Spirit.
All Christians start out perfect.
Where they go from there is in their hands.
Some keep reading, studying, and praying, and others fall away.

Peter preached real righteousness, you preach self righteousness.

Peter preached that which you are fighting against.
Real righteousness !
I am glad you could see that, after expending so much time and effort to thwart it.

Again, says you who don't believe sin is real. I've been resisting you for a long time, why haven't you fled from me?

Sin is very real.
And very conquerable, thanks to the gift of repentance and rebirth from God's seed !

The right question is. "who needs Jesus if I have so sin?" Isn't that your perspective?

Nope.
To remain walking the right path, the one in the light, I depend on the Lord's inputs for everything .

Why is it that you, with Jesus, still are in bondage to sin ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

Thank you for addressing my questions!
Paul always called a spade a spade. Lost people he called lost people; people in danger concerning salvation, he called them as being in danger concerning salvation. But that's not the language he used with those labeled carnal: he calls them “brethen” and “in Christ”!
I Cor 3:1: And I, BRETHEN, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes IN CHRIST
But you wrote “that they are not brothers in Christ anymore”! This is to imply that the Scripture is lying to us! Or do you think that the scripture says in vain (James 4:5)?

Would the separatists and adulterers still be your brothers if they don't accept the chastisement ?
Paul isn't ready to let them go without a fight.
He is leaving them room to repent.

I believe I will stop here. It is more and more clear to me that you are doing violence to the Scripture to force it to fit with your theological convictions! Common ground for discussion should be untwisted Scripture, but this common ground I don't see in our discussion
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. (2 Peter 3:15)

This is a serious warning to you from Scripture and I sincerely hope that you will heed it and humbly seek God for revelation because your soul is at stake! Or at least, understand that God resists the proud, but gives grace unto the humble (James 4:6), and follow the example of humility of David and pray like him: Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting (Ps 139:23-24)

Are you willing to accept unrepentant dividers and adulterers as brothers in Christ ?
I am not, but I will, like Paul, give them the chance to mend their ways before consigning them to satan.
It is written..."In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?" (1 Cor 5:4-6)

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

If it was apathy, why am I preaching the thing that can free men from bondage ?

If you don't care, so be it, but don't pretend that we're living in a perfect world without sin.

No, He cares what men do.

You're going against the Scripture.

My presence here shows the error of your post.
If I didn't care about you, and every one else who reads this, I wouldn't tell you that there is an escape from the wrath to come.

So salvation is just a ticket to heaven and a bailout from hell? Is that all what Jesus means to you?

It is odd that you would end up with that idea.
There is plenty of sin out in the world, being committed by the servants of sin.
Not everyone serves the one true Master.

How so? You're the one who denied original sin. You dismissed that as Catholic teaching.

Hopefully, but still John is writhing ABOUT two kinds of men.
Those who walk in light-God, and those who walk in darkness-sin.

But still, John was writing to ONE church; and still, you're making stuffs up that doesn't exist in the text.

Paul uses the same system in Rom 8, juxtaposing those who walk in the "flesh" with those who walk in the Spirit.
We are presented with such obvious dissimilarities that it is easy to see where we stand in both Rom 8 and 1 John 1.

Paul didn't, you made that up. All walk in darkness until brought into the light by the Spirit.

You were presenting a catholic doctrine as if it were some sort of truth.

You were preaching more than one heresy as if they were some sort of truth.

True, and neither is there any sin committed by them to be written about.

How do you know that? Everybody is a sinner except Christ.

Yes, I do...a sanctified place for the residency of the Holy Ghost.

Then you wouldn't have degraded that as a "carrying case."

Yes He does, but the vessel is incapable of committing sin.
The mind is at fault.
Thanks be to God, we get a new mind at our rebirth form God's seed !
That gives us power over the skin and bones that so many blame for sin.

I don't see it from you. You're full of pride, the deadliest sin.

Blood so expensive that I dare not ever again offend the shedder of said blood.

You already do, by equating yourself with the shredder of said blood, by boasting of your "sinless perfection."

Then why are you so defensive about it ?

Because you've been preaching a heresy, you've been behaving like that arrogant Pharisee the whole time, and you're too blind to see it.

I'll ask again, as you have picked up the bad habit of not answering my questions...
As the ability to obey God perfectly isn't a heresy at all, your point is moot.
What is it exactly that keeps you in disobedience ?

I have a habit of spotting tricky, accusatory, loaded questions and throwing it back in your face. I'll ask you again, what is it exactly that keeps you in your pride and complacency?

As long as the "you" you refer to is just the skin and bones vessel, you are correct !
My new, godly focused, mind is the string puller now.
Paul notes his own freedom from the "flesh" in Rom 7:25..."I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; ..."

You don't seem to focus on God, you only focus on yourself.

Do you think that is a good idea ?
If you can't cease from sin, as you keep affirming, are we not warned that taking the Lord's supper unworthily may cause sickness and even death ?
It is written..."Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. (1 Cor 11:17-29)

I think it's a good idea for you to examine your own heart and quit preaching this heresy of sinless perfection. "let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup.“(11:28).

Did you catch that "cannot sin" part ?

Did you catch that "babes in Christ" part in the OP?

I am reminded of the mote and beam parable.

There is a difference between "flesh" and skin and bones.
"Flesh" refers to the worldly oriented, sinning men.
Skin and bones brings us back to the "carrying case".

No there's not, you made it up. You better repent, or your name will be blotted out.

"If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." (Rev. 22:18-19)

Mistaken again.

Says you who've mistaken the forgiveness of sin for the absence of sin the whole time.

I do beleive it, and that belief causes me to rejoice over Gal 5:24..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."
With no "flesh", no vile affections, and no lusts, there can be no sin !!!!!
I do hope you beleive Gal 5:24.

No you don't. Your mortality is proof of your sin, and my mine. I do hope you believe James 1:14-15.

"But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death."

 

[Corinth77777]

This is a new thread to continue the discussion I have about the doctrine of sinless perfection with Hopeful 2 on the thread “John Calvin's Heretical Teaching”. Indeed this discussion is off-topic and needs to move to a new thread to stop polluting the original thread. I will repost my last answer (https://christianforums.net/threads/john-calvins-heretical-teaching.102895/post-1859069).

1 Corinthians 3:
1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

Colossians 3:5-10: see below

So are you saying Christians can be carnal?
Could be a good pt.

Can one be in the light and not walk in the light.
And isn't Salvation every day life we receive from God?

Question: How is one Given the right to become a son.

Anyway good pt.
I hope I can asked these questions without a label being put on me.

 

[Consecrated Life]

It must be the case that the people who claim to never sin are the same ones who invented the internet ?
It is a laughable fact that nobody ever claimed to never sin before they were able to do so as anonymous , nameless , unidentifiable, internet ghosts .
But once the internet came along suddenly there appeared herds of them, like lemmings chomping at the bit to claim their ability to never sin .
Without exception , all nameless , faceless , anonymous.
Lol, who says God does not have a sense of humor .
Of course He does.
I wonder why such absolute pre-internet secrecy of proclaiming such an admirable spiritual quality existed, until the internet made it possible ?
Electronic anonymity finally making possible what they were never able to proclaim in their prior reality based life , the ability to never commit sin.
I can't imagine how deeply tormented these nameless unidentifiable unable to sin souls must have been by the inability to tell everybody what good little boys and girls they were before the internet came along.

Psa 42:5
Why art thou cast down, O my soul? and why art thou disquieted in me? hope thou in God: for I shall yet praise him for the help of his countenance.

 

[Hopeful 2]

If you don't care, so be it, but don't pretend that we're living in a perfect world without sin.

I have never asserted such a thing.
Please don't start misquoting me.

You're going against the Scripture.

I meant to day "Yes" He cares.

So salvation is just a ticket to heaven and a bailout from hell? Is that all what Jesus means to you?

There is plenty more than that.
Quit twisting my answers to your questions.

How so? You're the one who denied original sin. You dismissed that as Catholic teaching.

Your question doesn't match my statement.

But still, John was writing to ONE church; and still, you're making stuffs up that doesn't exist in the text.

He was indeed, but he was writing about two kinds of people.
Those two kinds of people either walk in darkness-sin or they walk in light-God.

Paul didn't, you made that up.

Yes he did, and a quick read of Rom 8 will prove it.
Walk in the Spirit, or, walk in the "flesh".

All walk in darkness until brought into the light by the Spirit.

Agreed.
We don't have to walk in darkness-sin anymore, thanks be to God !

You were preaching more than one heresy as if they were some sort of truth.

Not at all.
Jesus commanded obedience to God in Matt 5:48..."Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."
Peter reiterates it in 1 Peter 1:15..."But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;"
Paul exhorts it, in 1 Cor 15:34..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame."
But you feel that obeying them is heresy.

How do you know that?

Because, as I wrote, there is no sin by them written of in the bible.

Everybody is a sinner except Christ.

Were that true, being a Christian is pointless.
We could all have converted to Jewry for their Lawful days of atonement and other myriad customs for salvation.
The Messiah freed us from the power of satan and of the "flesh".
You deny His victory.

Then you wouldn't have degraded that as a "carrying case."

It is a vessel, and one fit for the Lord's uses.
I value it no further than that.

I don't see it from you. You're full of pride, the deadliest sin.

I am still waiting for you to deliver that post wherein a bragged about something.
Anything wherein I took credit for anything the Lord did.
Why do you have so much pride in your continued sinfulness ?

You already do, by equating yourself with the shedder of said blood, by boasting of your "sinless perfection."

He is not ashamed to call some His brethren.
"For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren," (Heb 2:11)
Is He at all ashamed to call sinners His brother ?
Sinners have a different Father than Jesus, and all those reborn of God's seed, have.

Because you've been preaching a heresy, you've been behaving like that arrogant Pharisee the whole time, and you're too blind to see it.

Adhering to, and teaching the doctrine which is according to Godliness, (1 Tim 6:3), and the freedom Jesus suffered and died to bring us, isn't a heresy.

I have a habit of spotting tricky, accusatory, loaded questions and throwing it back in your face. I'll ask you again, what is it exactly that keeps you in your pride and complacency?

I will try again..."
I'll ask again, as you have picked up the bad habit of not answering my questions...
As the ability to obey God perfectly isn't a heresy at all, your point is moot.
What is it exactly that keeps you in disobedience ?

You don't seem to focus on God, you only focus on yourself.

I am nothing without God.
In fact, without Him, I would still be a sinner !

I think it's a good idea for you to examine your own heart and quit preaching this heresy of sinless perfection. "let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup.“(11:28).

It is not a heresy.
Only committed sinners would ever think it was a heresy to be able to serve God perfectly.

Did you catch that "babes in Christ" part in the OP?

Yes, I caught that psychological punch in the gut.
Did you catch the "cannot sin" part of 1 John 3:9 ?

No there's not, you made it up. You better repent, or your name will be blotted out.

Then unfortunately, you are stuck in what you got.

"If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." (Rev. 22:18-19)

Beware !

Says you who've mistaken the forgiveness of sin for the absence of sin the whole time.

If one is truly sorry for their sin, they won't do them again, and again, and again, and again, etc.

No you don't. Your mortality is proof of your sin, and my mine. I do hope you believe James 1:14-15.

And Jesus' ?
BTW, Jesus said believers would live forever.
The only part of us that is mortal is the package.
And it has no intrinsic power.

"But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death."

Thank God for Gal 5:24..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."
No "flesh", no lusts, no sin !

Do you know how the "flesh" gets crucified ?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I have never asserted such a thing.
Please don't start misquoting me.

Yes you have, as long as you willingly ignore the harsh reality we're living in.

I meant to day "Yes" He cares.

He cares about the world, you don't.

There is plenty more than that.
Quit twisting my answers to your questions.

Why did you deny the biblical teaching of spiritual growth, then?

Your question doesn't match my statement.

Your statement is denial of original sin, which nullifies salvation and repentence.

He was indeed, but he was writing about two kinds of people.
Those two kinds of people either walk in darkness-sin or they walk in light-God.

John was writing to ONE church; and still, you're making stuffs up that doesn't exist in the text.

Yes he did, and a quick read of Rom 8 will prove it.
Walk in the Spirit, or, walk in the "flesh".

Except you're not walking anywhere as long as you stick to your "sinless perfection" heresy. In 1 Cor. 3:1-3, Paul reproached the church for still being carnal. What makes you think you're better? "Us" and "them" again?

Agreed.
We don't have to walk in darkness-sin anymore, thanks be to God !

You still walk in your sin of pride.

But you feel that obeying them is heresy.

No I don't, I feel your pride is a sin and your preaching is blasphemy.

Because, as I wrote, there is no sin by them written of in the bible.

Yes there is, Rom. 5:12, all means all.

Were that true, being a Christian is pointless.
We could all have converted to Jewry for their Lawful days of atonement and other myriad customs for salvation.
The Messiah freed us from the power of satan and of the "flesh".
You deny His victory.

As long as you deny the presence, consequence and gravity of sin, being Christian is pointless because there'd be no need for salvation. The healthy don't need a physician, the sick do.

It is a vessel, and one fit for the Lord's uses.
I value it no further than that.

Who cares about your own body? I'm talking about physical body in general, which God highly values and yet you disregards.

I am still waiting for you to deliver that post wherein a bragged about something.
Anything wherein I took credit for anything the Lord did.
Why do you have so much pride in your continued sinfulness ?

Why do you have so much pride in your heresy of "sinless perfection" that goes against the core messenge of the Lord's gospel? I don't continue any sinfulness, I'm simply acknowledging a fact that this world is sinful and broken, and Jesus is the only hope.

He is not ashamed to call some His brethren.

And yet you're ashamed of humble yourself as a sinner. You've been consistently boasting of your own "sinless perfection".

Adhering to, and teaching the doctrine which is according to Godliness, (1 Tim 6:3), and the freedom Jesus suffered and died to bring us, isn't a heresy.

You've been teaching more than one heresy that are contrary to the word of God. Paul never boasted of "sinless perfection", he confessed his persecution of the church in the past and repented from his sins.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I will try again..."
I'll ask again, as you have picked up the bad habit of not answering my questions...
As the ability to obey God perfectly isn't a heresy at all, your point is moot.
What is it exactly that keeps you in disobedience ?

I have a habit of spotting tricky, accusatory, loaded questions and throwing it back in your face. I'll ask you again, what is it exactly that keeps you in your pride and complacency? If you want a legitimate answer, then ask a legitimate question.

I am nothing without God.
In fact, without Him, I would still be a sinner !

You still are. Denying that nullifies Christ's atonement for sin on the cross.

It is not a heresy.
Only committed sinners would ever think it was a heresy to be able to serve God perfectly.

This is heresy of work based salvation, supposing you can serve God perfectly on your own.

Yes, I caught that psychological punch in the gut.
Did you catch the "cannot sin" part of 1 John 3:9 ?

No you didn't, Scripture doesn't contradict itself. Why was the Corinthian being criticized for being carnal if they "cannot sin"?

Then unfortunately, you are stuck in what you got.

Pot calling kettle black.

Beware !

Yes, beware, stop preaching the false division of "them in darkness" vs "us in light".

If one is truly sorry for their sin, they won't do them again, and again, and again, and again, etc.

And yet you still boast of yourself and deny our sin nature again, and again, and again, and again, etc.

And Jesus' ?
BTW, Jesus said believers would live forever.
The only part of us that is mortal is the package.
And it has no intrinsic power.

Jesus died for OUR sins, not his own, for he had none! That's proof that sin leads to death. True eternal life is defined in Rev. 1:18, including birth, death and resurrection. If there were no sin, then we wouldn't die, and no resurrection from the dead, and Christianity would be meaningless.

Do you know how the "flesh" gets crucified ?

Do you know that this is not a one and done deal? Again, why is the Corinthian church still being carnal? Why is the Laodicean church still being carnal? And what makes you think these don't apply to you?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I have never asserted such a thing.
Please don't start misquoting me.

I meant to day "Yes" He cares.

There is plenty more than that.
Quit twisting my answers to your questions.

Your question doesn't match my statement.

He was indeed, but he was writing about two kinds of people.
Those two kinds of people either walk in darkness-sin or they walk in light-God.

Yes he did, and a quick read of Rom 8 will prove it.
Walk in the Spirit, or, walk in the "flesh".

Agreed.
We don't have to walk in darkness-sin anymore, thanks be to God !

Not at all.
Jesus commanded obedience to God in Matt 5:48..."Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."
Peter reiterates it in 1 Peter 1:15..."But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;"
Paul exhorts it, in 1 Cor 15:34..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame."
But you feel that obeying them is heresy.

Because, as I wrote, there is no sin by them written of in the bible.

Were that true, being a Christian is pointless.
We could all have converted to Jewry for their Lawful days of atonement and other myriad customs for salvation.
The Messiah freed us from the power of satan and of the "flesh".
You deny His victory.

It is a vessel, and one fit for the Lord's uses.
I value it no further than that.

I am still waiting for you to deliver that post wherein a bragged about something.
Anything wherein I took credit for anything the Lord did.
Why do you have so much pride in your continued sinfulness ?

He is not ashamed to call some His brethren.
"For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren," (Heb 2:11)
Is He at all ashamed to call sinners His brother ?
Sinners have a different Father than Jesus, and all those reborn of God's seed, have.

Adhering to, and teaching the doctrine which is according to Godliness, (1 Tim 6:3), and the freedom Jesus suffered and died to bring us, isn't a heresy.

I will try again..."
I'll ask again, as you have picked up the bad habit of not answering my questions...
As the ability to obey God perfectly isn't a heresy at all, your point is moot.
What is it exactly that keeps you in disobedience ?

I am nothing without God.
In fact, without Him, I would still be a sinner !

It is not a heresy.
Only committed sinners would ever think it was a heresy to be able to serve God perfectly.

Yes, I caught that psychological punch in the gut.
Did you catch the "cannot sin" part of 1 John 3:9 ?

Then unfortunately, you are stuck in what you got.

Beware !

If one is truly sorry for their sin, they won't do them again, and again, and again, and again, etc.

And Jesus' ?
BTW, Jesus said believers would live forever.
The only part of us that is mortal is the package.
And it has no intrinsic power.

Thank God for Gal 5:24..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."
No "flesh", no lusts, no sin !

Do you know how the "flesh" gets crucified ?

Look, man, this squabble is going in circles and it’s getting ugly, I’m mighty tired of it, so I’m just gonna lay it out - you believe in absence of sin, I believe in forgiveness of sin; you believe that the saved can’t sin, I believe the saved WON’T sin; you see the body an earthly vessel and a carrying case, I see it the Holy Spirit’s temple and a living sacrifice; you think you’re immune to the sins from other people, I’m realistic enough to admit that we’re still affected by them; you can ignore the devil, the devil doesn’t ignore you; most importantly, you believe in sinless perfection in this life, I believe in sinless perfection in the NEXT life, and you’re not smart enough to understand the difference.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Yes you have, as long as you willingly ignore the harsh reality we're living in.

The reality we live in is that God can do anything He wants.
He wants all men to be saved, so made it possible to obey Him in all things.
Thanks be to God !

He cares about the world, you don't.

I don't care about the things of the "flesh".
If your "world" is in that category, I don't care about it at all.
God made it possible to walk in the Spirit instead of in the "flesh".
So, where is your "world" ?

Why did you deny the biblical teaching of spiritual growth, then?

As spiritual growth is something that can't be denied by anyone, your accusation lacks credence.

Your statement is denial of original sin, which nullifies salvation and repentence.

LOL.
God's gifts of repentance from sin and eventual salvation have nothing to do with the false original sin doctrine.

John was writing to ONE church; and still, you're making stuffs up that doesn't exist in the text.

I agree he was writing to the church, (though it isn't known how many places were being addressed).
In His letter he pointed out two ways in which to walk.
In the light, which is God; or in darkness, which is sin.
Two manners of life.
Two kinds of people.

Except you're not walking anywhere as long as you stick to your "sinless perfection" heresy. In 1 Cor. 3:1-3, Paul reproached the church for still being carnal. What makes you think you're better? "Us" and "them" again?

As there is no sin in God, (1 John 1:5), there can't be aby sin in those walking in God.
I walk in the light, which is God.
The folks of 1 Cor. had departed from the faith.
Without them repenting from sin, they will be lost.

You still walk in your sin of pride.

You saying it doesn't make it so.
The only thing I am proud of is what Jesus has done for and with me.

No I don't, I feel your pride is a sin and your preaching is blasphemy.

If the preaching of the doctrine which is according to Godliness, (1 Tim 6:3), is blasphemy, let me be charged for the rest of my life !
I plead guilty !

Yes there is, Rom. 5:12, all means all.

What sin did Jesus commit ?
Elijah ?
John the baptist ?
Who do you think Paul is talking about in Rom 5:14 ?..."Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come."

As long as you deny the presence, consequence and gravity of sin,

I have never denied any of that
I just glorify God by stating His works to free us from them...thanks be to God !

being Christian is pointless because there'd be no need for salvation.

If one has turned from the darkness and unto the light, he has his salvation, as long s he endures faithfully.

The healthy don't need a physician, the sick do.

The only healthy on earth are those the Physician has healed.
Why do you resist the cures ?

Who cares about your own body? I'm talking about physical body in general, which God highly values and yet you disregards.

God cares for it.
I can't make one hair white or black.

Why do you have so much pride in your heresy of "sinless perfection" that goes against the core messenge of the Lord's gospel? I don't continue any sinfulness, I'm simply acknowledging a fact that this world is sinful and broken, and Jesus is the only hope.

I am still waiting for you to deliver that post wherein a bragged about something.
Anything wherein I took credit for anything the Lord did.
Why do you have so much pride in your continued sinfulness ?

And yet you're ashamed of humble yourself as a sinner. You've been consistently boasting of your own "sinless perfection".

I humbled myself many years ago.
Why won't you ?
Repent of sin, permanently, and you too will know life without sinning !

You've been teaching more than one heresy that are contrary to the word of God.

Show it, please.

Paul never boasted of "sinless perfection", he confessed his persecution of the church in the past and repented from his sins.

Did he keep on persecuting the church ?
No, because he quit committing that sin...just as we can quit committing our sins.
Paul wrote..."Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in anything ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you." (Phil 3:15)
"Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:" (Col 1:28)
Here are some by Peter...“Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:" (2 Peter 1:10)
"Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless." (2 Peter 3:14)
Are Paul and Peter heretics for claiming perfect obedience to God ?
For wanting us to be perfectly spotless and blameless ?

Why do you fight so hard for a license to commit sin ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

I have a habit of spotting tricky, accusatory, loaded questions and throwing it back in your face. I'll ask you again, what is it exactly that keeps you in your pride and complacency? If you want a legitimate answer, then ask a legitimate question.

You still are. Denying that nullifies Christ's atonement for sin on the cross.

This is heresy of work based salvation, supposing you can serve God perfectly on your own.

No you didn't, Scripture doesn't contradict itself. Why was the Corinthian being criticized for being carnal if they "cannot sin"?

Pot calling kettle black.

Yes, beware, stop preaching the false division of "them in darkness" vs "us in light".

And yet you still boast of yourself and deny our sin nature again, and again, and again, and again, etc.

Jesus died for OUR sins, not his own, for he had none! That's proof that sin leads to death. True eternal life is defined in Rev. 1:18, including birth, death and resurrection. If there were no sin, then we wouldn't die, and no resurrection from the dead, and Christianity would be meaningless.

Do you know that this is not a one and done deal? Again, why is the Corinthian church still being carnal? Why is the Laodicean church still being carnal? And what makes you think these don't apply to you?

Still not answering my questions ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

Look, man, this squabble is going in circles and it’s getting ugly, I’m mighty tired of it, so I’m just gonna lay it out - you believe in absence of sin, I believe in forgiveness of sin;

Are you going to keep committing the sins that have been forgiven ?

you believe that the saved can’t sin,

If by "saved" you mean repentant and washed, you are correct ... just as 1 John 3:9 says

I believe the saved WON’T sin;

WHAT ????
That has never been a part of you posts.
You just keep defending the right to do wrong.

you see the body an earthly vessel and a carrying case, I see it the Holy Spirit’s temple and a living sacrifice;

I actually see it as both.
Why do you think the temple of the Holy Ghost will commit sin ?

you think you’re immune to the sins from other people,

Their sins won't cause me to sin.
Why so they cause you to sin ?

I’m realistic enough to admit that we’re still affected by them; you can ignore the devil, the devil doesn’t ignore you;

It is written..."Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.." (James 4:7)

most importantly, you believe in sinless perfection in this life, I believe in sinless perfection in the NEXT life, and you’re not smart enough to understand the difference.

By your second life, it will be too late.
Too late to glorify the God of everything.
Too late to glorify the name of Jesus Christ.
Too late to help your neighbors in need.
Jesus made it so we can do those thing here and now.
I'ld hate for you to miss out .

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Are you going to keep committing the sins that have been forgiven ?

If by "saved" you mean repentant and washed, you are correct ... just as 1 John 3:9 says

WHAT ????
That has never been a part of you posts.
You just keep defending the right to do wrong.

You know not what is right or wrong, you've been living in your own fantasy for too long, your ears are deaf to sound teaching.

I actually see it as both.
Why do you think the temple of the Holy Ghost will commit sin ?

Their sins won't cause me to sin.
Why so they cause you to sin ?

Because you know not what sin is and who God is, you're sinning without awareness. Are you really obedient to God? Or to yourself?

It is written..."Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.." (James 4:7)

Only your friends and family will flee from you if you keep going like this.

By your second life, it will be too late.
Too late to glorify the God of everything.
Too late to glorify the name of Jesus Christ.
Too late to help your neighbors in need.
Jesus made it so we can do those thing here and now.
I'ld hate for you to miss out .

There won't be a second life if you don't know Jesus and repent your sins in the first life. I've never defended sin, friend, I've been warning you about sin. You'd be lying to yourself if you believe you never make any mistake, never fall into any temptation, never cave in to any pressure. Ignoring and denying them don't make them go away.