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Confronting the doctrine of sinless perfection with 1 Corinthians 3:1-4 and Colossians 3:5-10

TOS1.3: Use self control and focus on reconciliation when discussing differences. Address the issue, not the person. Do not make derogatory personal remarks or you will be removed from the thread.
"Sinless perfection" is too ridiculous, it's not even an issue worthy of debate. It contradicts the core gospel message in 1 Cor. 15:3 - "Christ died for my sins." By God's standards, if you're ever angry at somebody without a cause, you've committed murder; if you've had a lustful thought, you've committed adultery; if you slack off or waste anything, you'd be stealing; if you envy somebody else's possessions, like on Instagram, you'd be coveting. That's why it is written, "if we say we have no sin, we're deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us." There's no way you can measure up. But that heretic won't listen to any of these, whatever you say to him, he keeps boasting of his "obedience" and accuse you of "disobedience", his mind is made up, and I'm done with it.
 
"Sinless perfection" is too ridiculous, it's not even an issue worthy of debate. It contradicts the core gospel message in 1 Cor. 15:3 - "Christ died for my sins." By God's standards, if you're ever angry at somebody without a cause, you've committed murder; if you've had a lustful thought, you've committed adultery; if you slack off or waste anything, you'd be stealing; if you envy somebody else's possessions, like on Instagram, you'd be coveting. That's why it is written, "if we say we have no sin, we're deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us." There's no way you can measure up. But that heretic won't listen to any of these, whatever you say to him, he keeps boasting of his "obedience" and accuse you of "disobedience", his mind is made up, and I'm done with it.
Jesus died for your sins.
Have you no compulsion to live in a manner that shows that you thank Him for that sacrifice ?
 
All my quotes are from KJV so I don't have to indicate that throughout this post

"Sinless perfection" is a misleading term. Continual obedience or I always do those things that please the Father is the testimony of the born again soul. I have so often heard that we will always sin until Jesus comes. This is a watered down gospel that keeps people on a sin and repent treadmill.
So what does it mean to be born again?
Psalm 2:7 "I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee."
According to Paul this is a prophecy of the resurrection.
Acts 13:33 "God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee." The word is "Begotten" which means to be born.

Jesus was born in Bethlehem but he was born again as he came out of the Garden tomb

Romans 6 clearly expresses the Father's belief that we were crucified with Jesus, and raised from the dead when he was.
What does it mean to live by faith? It is to simply believe what God believes. In verse six God says that our old man was crucified that the body of sin might be destroyed. God is telling us that our sinful nature, the old man, the body of sin was destroyed. The nature that I received from Adam was put to death on the cross.
Am I misreading the bible? Can we live by every word that comes to us from the Lover of our soul?

The fact that Jesus was tempted indicates that it was possible for him to fail, yet he did not. After the resurrection it was impossible for Jesus to be tempted or to fail. Why was that so? Because the nature that came down to him from Adam was left in the tomb. He had been born again meaning that the first birth carried with it a fallen nature and that had to be dealt with and destroyed. A new creature came out of the tomb. He was born again as he rose from the dead. The devil was a defeated foe. All power in Heaven and Earth were given to him.
So I have to conclude that Romans six is telling us that we were born again with Jesus, out of the garden tomb. We are now new creatures in Christ, divinity and humanity are combined. The devil is a defeated foe, the old man is no more, we are new creatures in Christ Jesus. We have been delivered from darkness and translated into the kingdom of His dear Son. We have been raised up together with Him to sit in heavenly places. These are God's facts. We must believe what He believes. Is there anything here that you cannot agree with?
A familiar spirit was conjured up by the witch of Endor and Saul thought for sure that it was Samuel. But we know that it was not.
I believe that every one of us has had at least one familiar spirit following us throughout our life. Suggesting thoughts in first person so that we believe might accept those thoughts as our own. The words are so familiar that we think that this spirit is us. This is how demonic forces gain control of the human agent by believing a lie. We know for certain that God has put to death the old man and our life is hidden with Christ in God.
However, it is the devil's intention to cause us to disbelieve what God has said, just as he tried to get Jesus to disbelieve what he had heard 40 days earlier. "This is my beloved Son..." So when thoughts are suggested from these familiar spirits they can stir up feelings. These feelings bring a negative force against our faith in what God has said.
It is like the devil is our personal trainer. He puts an extra 25 lbs. of temptation on our faith and hopes that we will doubt God and fail to lift it. But faith takes hold of the word of God no matter the weight of our feeling. We trust that He is able to keep us from falling and present us faultless. Jude 24. His word becomes greater and more true within us with each temptation, and another nail is driven in the coffin of the old man. We can turn to this demonic trickster and say, "I know who you are!", and he will flee from you.
Necromancy is when you consort with the dead. If anything that these familiar spirits suggest arouse feelings and you accept them to be true over the plain word of God, you are involving yourself in the most subtle form of necromancy. God has said that you are dead. leave him in the coffin and slam the lid shut.

So in actuality the devil becomes our helper to develop greater confidence in Father's Promises to keep us. As we hold on to Father's words we can stand against any of the winds that blow.

1 John 3:9 "Whosoever is born of God (out of the garden tomb) doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." 1 Peter 1:23
"And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you." Rom. 8:10,11 To quicken is to bring to life your mortal body, born again!

I have heard numerous people go through all kinds of mental gymnastics to try to turn 1 John 3:9 on its head so that it doesn't mean what it says. The reason is that they have been constantly told of doctrines from the pit so they can't believe that they can have victory. They don't believe that they are dead to sin and alive to God. But the scripture is very clear , "he that is born of God as Jesus was, out of the garden tomb, has all power in heaven and earth and the devil is a defeated foe. This should give every believer a reason for great rejoicing.
 
Jesus died for your sins.
Have you no compulsion to live in a manner that shows that you thank Him for that sacrifice ?
"My thoughts are not your thoughts, my way is higher than yours." I do thank him for that sacrifice instead of usurping him by claiming myself "sinlessly perfect." Lord Jesus was tempted and tried during his ministry, yet in a previous post you claim yourself never being tempted, if that's not sin of pride, I don't know what is.
 
All my quotes are from KJV so I don't have to indicate that throughout this post

"Sinless perfection" is a misleading term. Continual obedience or I always do those things that please the Father is the testimony of the born again soul. I have so often heard that we will always sin until Jesus comes. This is a watered down gospel that keeps people on a sin and repent treadmill.
So what does it mean to be born again?
Psalm 2:7 "I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee."
According to Paul this is a prophecy of the resurrection.
Acts 13:33 "God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee." The word is "Begotten" which means to be born.

Jesus was born in Bethlehem but he was born again as he came out of the Garden tomb

Romans 6 clearly expresses the Father's belief that we were crucified with Jesus, and raised from the dead when he was.
What does it mean to live by faith? It is to simply believe what God believes. In verse six God says that our old man was crucified that the body of sin might be destroyed. God is telling us that our sinful nature, the old man, the body of sin was destroyed. The nature that I received from Adam was put to death on the cross.
Am I misreading the bible? Can we live by every word that comes to us from the Lover of our soul?

The fact that Jesus was tempted indicates that it was possible for him to fail, yet he did not. After the resurrection it was impossible for Jesus to be tempted or to fail. Why was that so? Because the nature that came down to him from Adam was left in the tomb. He had been born again meaning that the first birth carried with it a fallen nature and that had to be dealt with and destroyed. A new creature came out of the tomb. He was born again as he rose from the dead. The devil was a defeated foe. All power in Heaven and Earth were given to him.
So I have to conclude that Romans six is telling us that we were born again with Jesus, out of the garden tomb. We are now new creatures in Christ, divinity and humanity are combined. The devil is a defeated foe, the old man is no more, we are new creatures in Christ Jesus. We have been delivered from darkness and translated into the kingdom of His dear Son. We have been raised up together with Him to sit in heavenly places. These are God's facts. We must believe what He believes. Is there anything here that you cannot agree with?
A familiar spirit was conjured up by the witch of Endor and Saul thought for sure that it was Samuel. But we know that it was not.
I believe that every one of us has had at least one familiar spirit following us throughout our life. Suggesting thoughts in first person so that we believe might accept those thoughts as our own. The words are so familiar that we think that this spirit is us. This is how demonic forces gain control of the human agent by believing a lie. We know for certain that God has put to death the old man and our life is hidden with Christ in God.
However, it is the devil's intention to cause us to disbelieve what God has said, just as he tried to get Jesus to disbelieve what he had heard 40 days earlier. "This is my beloved Son..." So when thoughts are suggested from these familiar spirits they can stir up feelings. These feelings bring a negative force against our faith in what God has said.
It is like the devil is our personal trainer. He puts an extra 25 lbs. of temptation on our faith and hopes that we will doubt God and fail to lift it. But faith takes hold of the word of God no matter the weight of our feeling. We trust that He is able to keep us from falling and present us faultless. Jude 24. His word becomes greater and more true within us with each temptation, and another nail is driven in the coffin of the old man. We can turn to this demonic trickster and say, "I know who you are!", and he will flee from you.
Necromancy is when you consort with the dead. If anything that these familiar spirits suggest arouse feelings and you accept them to be true over the plain word of God, you are involving yourself in the most subtle form of necromancy. God has said that you are dead. leave him in the coffin and slam the lid shut.

So in actuality the devil becomes our helper to develop greater confidence in Father's Promises to keep us. As we hold on to Father's words we can stand against any of the winds that blow.

1 John 3:9 "Whosoever is born of God (out of the garden tomb) doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." 1 Peter 1:23
"And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you." Rom. 8:10,11 To quicken is to bring to life your mortal body, born again!

I have heard numerous people go through all kinds of mental gymnastics to try to turn 1 John 3:9 on its head so that it doesn't mean what it says. The reason is that they have been constantly told of doctrines from the pit so they can't believe that they can have victory. They don't believe that they are dead to sin and alive to God. But the scripture is very clear , "he that is born of God as Jesus was, out of the garden tomb, has all power in heaven and earth and the devil is a defeated foe. This should give every believer a reason for great rejoicing.

true sinless pefection sounds like something you must do instead of what one should become
 
Last edited:
All my quotes are from KJV so I don't have to indicate that throughout this post

"Sinless perfection" is a misleading term. Continual obedience or I always do those things that please the Father is the testimony of the born again soul. I have so often heard that we will always sin until Jesus comes. This is a watered down gospel that keeps people on a sin and repent treadmill.
So what does it mean to be born again?
Psalm 2:7 "I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee."
According to Paul this is a prophecy of the resurrection.
Acts 13:33 "God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee." The word is "Begotten" which means to be born.

Jesus was born in Bethlehem but he was born again as he came out of the Garden tomb

Romans 6 clearly expresses the Father's belief that we were crucified with Jesus, and raised from the dead when he was.
What does it mean to live by faith? It is to simply believe what God believes. In verse six God says that our old man was crucified that the body of sin might be destroyed. God is telling us that our sinful nature, the old man, the body of sin was destroyed. The nature that I received from Adam was put to death on the cross.
Am I misreading the bible? Can we live by every word that comes to us from the Lover of our soul?

The fact that Jesus was tempted indicates that it was possible for him to fail, yet he did not. After the resurrection it was impossible for Jesus to be tempted or to fail. Why was that so? Because the nature that came down to him from Adam was left in the tomb. He had been born again meaning that the first birth carried with it a fallen nature and that had to be dealt with and destroyed. A new creature came out of the tomb. He was born again as he rose from the dead. The devil was a defeated foe. All power in Heaven and Earth were given to him.
So I have to conclude that Romans six is telling us that we were born again with Jesus, out of the garden tomb. We are now new creatures in Christ, divinity and humanity are combined. The devil is a defeated foe, the old man is no more, we are new creatures in Christ Jesus. We have been delivered from darkness and translated into the kingdom of His dear Son. We have been raised up together with Him to sit in heavenly places. These are God's facts. We must believe what He believes. Is there anything here that you cannot agree with?
A familiar spirit was conjured up by the witch of Endor and Saul thought for sure that it was Samuel. But we know that it was not.
I believe that every one of us has had at least one familiar spirit following us throughout our life. Suggesting thoughts in first person so that we believe might accept those thoughts as our own. The words are so familiar that we think that this spirit is us. This is how demonic forces gain control of the human agent by believing a lie. We know for certain that God has put to death the old man and our life is hidden with Christ in God.
However, it is the devil's intention to cause us to disbelieve what God has said, just as he tried to get Jesus to disbelieve what he had heard 40 days earlier. "This is my beloved Son..." So when thoughts are suggested from these familiar spirits they can stir up feelings. These feelings bring a negative force against our faith in what God has said.
It is like the devil is our personal trainer. He puts an extra 25 lbs. of temptation on our faith and hopes that we will doubt God and fail to lift it. But faith takes hold of the word of God no matter the weight of our feeling. We trust that He is able to keep us from falling and present us faultless. Jude 24. His word becomes greater and more true within us with each temptation, and another nail is driven in the coffin of the old man. We can turn to this demonic trickster and say, "I know who you are!", and he will flee from you.
Necromancy is when you consort with the dead. If anything that these familiar spirits suggest arouse feelings and you accept them to be true over the plain word of God, you are involving yourself in the most subtle form of necromancy. God has said that you are dead. leave him in the coffin and slam the lid shut.

So in actuality the devil becomes our helper to develop greater confidence in Father's Promises to keep us. As we hold on to Father's words we can stand against any of the winds that blow.

1 John 3:9 "Whosoever is born of God (out of the garden tomb) doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." 1 Peter 1:23
"And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you." Rom. 8:10,11 To quicken is to bring to life your mortal body, born again!

I have heard numerous people go through all kinds of mental gymnastics to try to turn 1 John 3:9 on its head so that it doesn't mean what it says. The reason is that they have been constantly told of doctrines from the pit so they can't believe that they can have victory. They don't believe that they are dead to sin and alive to God. But the scripture is very clear , "he that is born of God as Jesus was, out of the garden tomb, has all power in heaven and earth and the devil is a defeated foe. This should give every believer a reason for great rejoicing.
Really good and thought provoking.
 
"Sinless perfection" is too ridiculous, it's not even an issue worthy of debate. It contradicts the core gospel message in 1 Cor. 15:3 - "Christ died for my sins." By God's standards, if you're ever angry at somebody without a cause, you've committed murder; if you've had a lustful thought, you've committed adultery; if you slack off or waste anything, you'd be stealing; if you envy somebody else's possessions, like on Instagram, you'd be coveting. That's why it is written, "if we say we have no sin, we're deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us." There's no way you can measure up. But that heretic won't listen to any of these, whatever you say to him, he keeps boasting of his "obedience" and accuse you of "disobedience", his mind is made up, and I'm done with it.
Abraham was told to walk before Him blameless and He would make a Covenant with Him.

I figure we enter the Covenant the same way.

What do you think
 
"My thoughts are not your thoughts, my way is higher than yours." I do thank him for that sacrifice instead of usurping him by claiming myself "sinlessly perfect."
How does my claim that His sacrifice benefitted me "usurp" Him ?
Lord Jesus was tempted and tried during his ministry, yet in a previous post you claim yourself never being tempted, if that's not sin of pride, I don't know what is.
I have never claimed that.
 
Abraham was told to walk before Him blameless and He would make a Covenant with Him.

I figure we enter the Covenant the same way.

What do you think
As far as entering the Covenant, there is another factor that comes with obedience that must be mentioned. Obedience often brings us face to face with our cross. Which is why we are carrying it daily. The cross upon which we die to our desires and live in His will is something most are unwilling to face.
The sweet part of living in His will is that we are not left alone. He is in all of it with us, being us, helping us die as He did. As our Saviour and helper He will keep us from falling.
I see a wide chasm that separated us from God . The Son within us speaks softly, "Go ahead and jump, I am with you."
I believe that the Son gave up His life before the world was created as it states in revelation, the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world. The cross was a vivid description, a living parable of how complete that death must be for the fallen nature. It is not enough to live a life of obedience, we must also die.
His death had nothing to do with torture, thorns and nails through his hands and feet. The death he took part in was that he gave up all his prerogatives as God and became helpless and dependent upon the Father for all things. Condescending to be as helpless as we humans. So that he could give His life to a race that had thrown theirs away.
He took the son of Mary through one cross after another for 33 years, dying daily. Once that work was completed He led Jesus to Calvary where the final cross was faced. It was required that the Adam nature must be destroyed and made extinct. It could not be fixed, death was the only solution.
When Jesus walked out of that tomb he was born again to new life as a new creature. There was nothing left in him that Satan could find to put a hook in, for Adam's nature was finally dead. And this He gives to us.
He gives us His daily victory and He will finally give us that Calvary death as a gift that He may be seen and glorified in all His saints and be made manifest before the dark forces of this world. They will see that Christ has redeemed a race of people in the face of everything they could throw at them. This will justify God before the whole universe and make perfect all those who died in faith. Hebrews says something about this:
"And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. 11:39,40
The cross is the remedy.
 
Abraham was told to walk before Him blameless and He would make a Covenant with Him.

I figure we enter the Covenant the same way.

What do you think
"Blameless" is NOT "sinlessly perfect". Abraham had his own faults, he took that covenant as a command and he did it in his own way by mating with Hagar, you can thank him for the muslims, Ishmael's descendants, and all the horrors they brought forth. Nevertheless, God didn't revoke the covenant, it lasts forever, and Abraham was justified by faith.
 
"Blameless" is NOT "sinlessly perfect".
Define the difference.
Abraham had his own faults, he took that covenant as a command and he did it in his own way by mating with Hagar, you can thank him for the muslims, Ishmael's descendants, and all the horrors they brought forth. Nevertheless, God didn't revoke the covenant, it lasts forever, and Abraham was justified by faith.
Which Laws did Abe break ?
There wasn't any Law to break when Abe lived.
 
How does my claim that His sacrifice benefitted me "usurp" Him ?
He's the only man who's truly sinlessly perfect, claiming yourself sinlessly perfect is blasphemy.
Define the difference.
You do. You're the one who's been promoting it.
Which Laws did Abe break ?
There wasn't any Law to break when Abe lived.
Not law, but promise. God promised a son through Sarah, he begot one through Hagar.
 
He's the only man who's truly sinlessly perfect, claiming yourself sinlessly perfect is blasphemy.
Jesus was the first, and He commanded us to be as perfect as God is perfect. (Matt 5:48)
Why do you make Jesus' words a mockery ?
You do. You're the one who's been promoting it.
I see no difference between blameless and perfectly obedient.
Not law, but promise. God promised a son through Sarah, he begot one through Hagar.
What promise did Abe break ?
He remained faithful to God all his life.
 
Why do you make Jesus' words a mockery ?
Why do you pull his words out of context? What was His point in that passage? Be merciful to your enemies, pray for them. Nowhere in 5:43-48 states or implies "sinless".
I see no difference between blameless and perfectly obedient.
Because you're spiritually blind.
What promise did Abe break ?
He remained faithful to God all his life.
I've already explained. Read it for yourself. God promised Isaac, not Ishmael, he fathered Ishamael.
 
"Blameless" is NOT "sinlessly perfect". Abraham had his own faults, he took that covenant as a command and he did it in his own way by mating with Hagar, you can thank him for the muslims, Ishmael's descendants, and all the horrors they brought forth. Nevertheless, God didn't revoke the covenant, it lasts forever, and Abraham was justified by faith.
My question was do you think we enter the covenant blessings the same way?
 
My question was do you think we enter the covenant blessings the same way?
For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Gal. 3:26-29)
 
Why do you pull his words out of context? What was His point in that passage? Be merciful to your enemies, pray for them. Nowhere in 5:43-48 states or implies "sinless".
Is God sinless ?
I think so, and Jesus commanded us to be like Him.
Because you're spiritually blind.
If obedience to God equates to spiritual blindness to you, I invite you to rejoice with me in obedience to God.
I've already explained. Read it for yourself. God promised Isaac, not Ishmael, he fathered Ishamael.
God promised an heir.
God didn't promise anyone by name.
 
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