Contradicting Beliefs

[Ernest T. Bass]

Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Act 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

This is the Biblical example of the NT church does the cofC comply with the verses in Acts...

Yes, we take up collections of money, food, clothing etc to give to those that are in need.

Do you comply with it or do you think none of the bible applies to people today?

 

[Knotical]

THe contradcition is trying to keep both the OT and NT at the same time which Paul said was a type of spiritual adultery, Rom 7:1-6

Christ did take the ALL the OT out of the way including the 10 commandments. If you argue against this, then are you remembering the Sabbath day and keeping it holy? I do not for the 10 commandments was only given to the JEws to keep, see Deut 5:1-3 and Christ then made it ineffectinve on HIs cross. Yet since Christ "taketh away the first that He may establish the second" Christ's NT law makes lying, stealing, adultery, etc sinful for the Christian and not the ineffective 10 commandments. Very easy idea to understand, not hard at all.

Oi, see post #203.

 

[rrowell]

Also, I did a Google search and one article ( http://www.sharefaith.com/guide/Chr...worship/instruments-of-the-new-testament.html ) says this:
I don't know Greek, so I can't confirm this. Just bringing it up, though. If anyone happens to know that it's inaccurate, correct me.

Wikipedia had this to say:
source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psalms

That said, Wikipedia isn't the best source in the world. So, if you can show why they're wrong, then please do so.


If this is true, though, then this would mean that Ephesians 5:19 is actually promoting musical instruments in worship.

The Greek word in Ephesians 5:19 is "Psallo" meaning to pluck or twang, it is a word that would demonstrate the action required to make a sound from a stringed instrument, but it does not say what the instrument is, the definition of the instrument comes from the context the word is used in...

It is like the word "Babtizo" meaning to submerse, but it does not define the baptism, "Baptism in water", "baptism of the Holy Spirit", "Baptism of Fire" etc...

Just like the context defines what the baptism is from the word "Baptizo" so too do we find the instrument that is played from the word "Psallo", the instrument is found in the "context" and Paul said the instrument is the "heart" in Ephesians 5:19. therefore we are told to "sing and make melody" from the "heart"... no mechanical instrument required...

Now, if one wants to change the word "Psallo" to mean literally play a string instrument, 1, all are told to do it therefore all must in worship play a stringed instrument, because if you can play an instrument and I cannot, you cannot worship the Lord for me, so I must if I am to be pleasing to God learn to play a stringed instrument, and 2 if the word "Psallo" determines that we are to play a mechanical musical instrument it will too eliminate anything BUT a stringed instrument meaning you cannot use a organ for example...

What is best is to take the word of God for what it says, "Sing and make melody" (Psallo) and the instrument to be played is the "heart".

 

[evenifigoalone]

I don't see how it wouldn't fit in the context and I don't see how that would mean that an instrument is always required, but thank you for answering in any case.

What of the verse I gave earlier in Revelation that mentions a harp?

 

[reba]

Originally Posted by reba
Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Act 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

This is the Biblical example of the NT church does the cofC comply with the verses in Acts...



Wonderful you comply with Scripture I will see you in a new light of credibility! let me understand ....you don't own your home, car, or computer? A refrigerator, TV, radio, furniture, heater cooler, fishing pole? sewing machine, piano, you own nothing?

Yes, we take up collections of money, food, clothing etc to give to those
that are in need.





Do you comply with it or do you think none of the bible applies to people
today?

That was not the question I ask if all was sold and Rrowell said

yes

 

[rrowell]

What do you think of this verse, Rrowell?


Also, the verse you keep mentioning from Ephesians mentions using the psalms, which as we know speak of worshipping with instruments. Although I suppose it is possible they weren't referring to the Psalms.

For one to justify the use of musical instruments one has to go to the Old Testament or to the visions and prophecy of John in his use of symbols, and even if we were to say the harps in Rev. were not symbolic, they are the worship of angels and not of men... you cannot provide any authorization for instrumental music without going outside of the Christian Dispensation, one side of it or the other...

 

[rrowell]

Yes, we take up collections of money, food, clothing etc to give to those that are in need.

Do you comply with it or do you think none of the bible applies to people today?
That was not the question

Sorry Reba, but I honestly have not been able to figure out what your question(s) is?

 

[evenifigoalone]

For one to justify the use of musical instruments one has to go to the Old Testament or to the visions and prophecy of John in his use of symbols, and even if we were to say the harps in Rev. were not symbolic, they are the worship of angels and not of men... you cannot provide any authorization for instrumental music without going outside of the Christian Dispensation, one side of it or the other...

You may or may not have a point about the verse in Revelations. That is why I asked. But if it's okay in symbolism, then why is it not okay otherwise? If God were so against the use of musical instruments, why would He even imply it?

What rational reason would God have to allow music in the OT, but not the NT?
Again, what is there to suggest that music worship is part of the old covenant? It has nothing to do with salvation, it is a method of worship.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

IMO a good deal of the ideas presented by the varying groups is due to things that the Bible is unclear on, and are thus debatable.
And that's understandable. However, if they try to say that doing X, Y, or Z will take away your salvation, then IMO they are way off base.

But that is a discussion I would rather not get into as I am not knowledgeable enough to defend my position. If "salvation by faith versus salvation by works" is the point of this conversation then I would like to go ahead and bow out now.

Is the bible unclear on how one becomes a Christian/being saved?

Some groups say one can do "x" and become a Christian but another group says no "y" is the only way to be saved and another says "z" is how one is saved and on and on it goes.

 

[reba]

Originally Posted by reba
Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Act 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

This is the Biblical example of the NT church does the cofC comply with the verses in Acts...

I asked if the church complies with the posted scripture the answer given was yes....

So far I have received a double answer

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

There is a 3rd; the bible has contradictions and errors and its exactly how God wanted it

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Then God would be the author of confusion - 1 Cor 14:33

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Is the bible unclear on how one becomes a Christian/being saved?

Some groups say one can do "x" and become a Christian but another group says no "y" is the only way to be saved and another says "z" is how one is saved and on and on it goes.

How do you say one must be saved?

 

[evenifigoalone]

Is the bible unclear on how one becomes a Christian/being saved?

Some groups say one can do "x" and become a Christian but another group says no "y" is the only way to be saved and another says "z" is how one is saved and on and on it goes.

IMO, it makes sense that Satan would cause confusion regarding the interpretation of the scriptures by humans, especially on salvation, as a tactic to keep people away from the truth.

 

[farouk]

You may or may not have a point about the verse in Revelations. That is why I asked. But if it's okay in symbolism, then why is it not okay otherwise? If God were so against the use of musical instruments, why would He even imply it?

..

questdriven:

Interesting point. I think that inferences such as this may be valid. If they hypothetically contradict a clear, Biblical teaching about the Person and Work of Christ, then inferences can't override such clear teaching, but in this case I don't see how this is the case.

Of course, simplicity in worship is important, and the essence of true worship is that it should be 'in spirit and in truth' (John 4), in any case.

 

[Grazer]

Then God would be the author of confusion - 1 Cor 14:33

It's only confusion when you make assumptions about the bible that it doesn't warrant

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[Ernest T. Bass]

Or, it could just be that the bible is the inerrant word of God and we fallible, feable humans have a hard time understanding what He is trying to convey without the assistance of the Holy Spirit.

We come up with false and errant doctrines when we "think" we know what the bible is saying instead of allowing the Holy Spirit to reveal to us what He is actually saying.

It would not make any sense for God to give man a book that man could not possibly understand. I have dealt with those that think the Holy Spirit miraculously "enlightens" them about God's word and I have seen how they contradict each othe.....implying the Holy Spirit is givng out bad, contradicting information to them.
Jesus once said "Ye shall KNOW the truth", so it can be known. Paul in writing to the Ephesians said "Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)" Eph 3:4. And Paul did NOT say ye may understand what ye read but only with the miraculous help of the Holy SPirit. So it can be understood what is written simply by reading therefore understanding is not the problem. The problem, at least part of it, is people have preconceived ideas about how one should be saved or how God should be worshipped and they go about trying to make the bible conform to those ideas.

 

[rrowell]

You may or may not have a point about the verse in Revelations. That is why I asked. But if it's okay in symbolism, then why is it not okay otherwise? If God were so against the use of musical instruments, why would He even imply it?

What rational reason would God have to allow music in the OT, but not the NT?

Questdriven,

I don't believe it is a matter of God being "against the use of musical instruments" as it is in mans obedience to him...

I personally love instrumental music, I own 3 guitars, (can't play them yet but wish to one day)... but because they lift me up at times, those time should not be when I worship Him unless he so commands...

I don't know why Jesus did not command instrumental music in his Christian Dispensation, maybe it has something to do with his stress on humility and humbleness and we are obedient when we lower our selves to simple singing from our heart...

All I know is that he put the OT out of the way making the new in force by the death of the testator Heb. 9:16-17, and even if the harps in the book of Rev are literal, we cannot use them because Angels did...

 

[Knotical]

It would not make any sense for God to give man a book that man could not possibly understand. I have dealt with those that think the Holy Spirit miraculously "enlightens" them about God's word and I have seen how they contradict each othe.....implying the Holy Spirit is givng out bad, contradicting information to them.
Jesus once said "Ye shall KNOW the truth", so it can be known. Paul in writing to the Ephesians said "Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)" Eph 3:4. And Paul did NOT say ye may understand what ye read but only with the miraculous help of the Holy SPirit. So it can be understood what is written simply by reading therefore understanding is not the problem. The problem, at least part of it, is people have preconceived ideas about how one should be saved or how God should be worshipped and they go about trying to make the bible conform to those ideas.

Actually, it makes perfect sense that God would provide a Helper that will assist us in understanding His Word. What is also clear is that there are many people who "claim" to have received a revelation of scripture from the Holy Spirit and espouse some new doctrine from which it is based, yet are deceived. These are the ones we are warned to watch out for.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Well, thanks for the discussion, even though I don't agree. I'm sure that if it turns out that I am doing anything wrong by worshipping with music that God will lay that on my heart. God bless.

 

[Mike]

This would be like God telling Noah to use gopher wood. Was the onus upon Noah to prove that God did not want oak even though God was silent on using oak in building the ark? No. God's silence on using oak was proof He did not want oak used but gopher wood.

Rather than take up space by quoting all of your analogies, I'll only need to use this much to say you could have saved yourself the time. You can use all the analogies you want, but you will fall short every time. For you and the CoC to make your assumption based on ommission to the point that salvation is dictated by it is a travesty. It is an abuse of His Word that He gave us. It is amazing the lengths you will go to in order to manipulate scripture to support the rigid rules of your denomination which claims to be the only one through which salvation comes. Fortunately, this is very uncommon fringe thinking.