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Contradicting Beliefs

Yes, I saw the post where you generalized the entire OT into being part of "the law", and that Jesus completely did away with it. Completely false doctrine, quite frankly as He came to fulfill the law and clarify it. No, we are no longer living under the law because He died for our sins, but we are still to live our lives under the guidance of the law. For an example of this you merely need to look at the sermon on the mount where he clarifies that a sin is not just something we physically do, but can also be something we hold in our hearts. Jesus brought a more abstract understanding of sin to the fore, and we are to look at the law through that lens.

I did not genealize anything but showed you a book, chapter and verse where Jesus Himself called Psalms law. Was Jesus wrong for calling Psalms "law"?


Matthew said Jesus came to fulfill not to destroy the law. The contrast is made between fulfilling and destroying so CHrist did not do away with the OT by destroying but fulfilling. He fulfilled those prohpecies made about him and thereby brought the OT to an end, making in inactive and ineffective. Nowhere did Jesus or an apostle ever say the CHristian is to follow the OT laws and statutes. That context in Matthew goes on to say that not one jot or tittle would pass from the OT law till all be fulfilled. Therefore if Jesus did not fulfill it all then he was not the CHrist and every jot and tittle is still in place and binding upon you meaning you must keep all those laws found in the OT law as animal sacrifices, purifications, pilrimages etc, etc, and there's no cherry-picking as so many want to do for you would be a debtor to the WHOLE law, Gal 5:3.
Yet Jesus was the Christ and fulfilled all the OT therby making it inactive, of no effect.
 
Oi, see post #203.

You are wrong in post 203.

Either Christ took all the OT out of the way making it inactive and of no effect or you are debtor to the WHOLE law. So which is it?

(and there is not cherry picking).
 
IMO, it makes sense that Satan would cause confusion regarding the interpretation of the scriptures by humans, especially on salvation, as a tactic to keep people away from the truth.

Sure Satan loves that confusion reigns but it was not God that created the confusion. So the contradiction and confusion exists, it was not caused by God so it must came from man and Satan does not force men into confusion, men got himself into that mess.
 
I don't say, only God's word has that say so and I can either accept of reject what God's word says about how to be saved.

I can translate this evasive answer. I What Ernest means is that believers are saved by joining his denomination and adhering to its fabricated rules. Only members of the CoC and churches that practice exactly like they do, which is of course only the CoC, will escape the fire of hell.. Does that pretty much sum it up, Ernest?
 
You are wrong in post 203.

Either Christ took all the OT out of the way making it inactive and of no effect or you are debtor to the WHOLE law. So which is it?

(and there is not cherry picking).

Ah, trying to cram God and the bible into your narrow view of them. Not going to work. In relation to what Mike stated, the narrow, legalistic view your denomination has come to accept as "true" is, thankfully, not what the bible teaches, by any stretch of the imagination.

I do have to applaud the fervor in which you defend your position, I just wish you used that kind of focus on what truly mattered. Witnessing to the lost so that they might be quickened the Holy Spirit and coming to a saving faith in Jesus Christ.
 
Rather than take up space by quoting all of your analogies, I'll only need to use this much to say you could have saved yourself the time. You can use all the analogies you want, but you will fall short every time. For you and the CoC to make your assumption based on ommission to the point that salvation is dictated by it is a travesty. It is an abuse of His Word that He gave us. It is amazing the lengths you will go to in order to manipulate scripture to support the rigid rules of your denomination which claims to be the only one through which salvation comes. Fortunately, this is very uncommon fringe thinking.

But you cannot just simply ingnore the analogies for they fit. It just part of common sense and smple logic.

If God has to both specify what He does want and at the same time specify what He does not want then why and how are you exempt from this bad logic yourself? If God must do this you must also, you must go through the entire menu telling the waiter what you specifically do not want and what you specifically do want.


Simple question: God told Noah to use gopher wood. Since God did not specifically say "do not use oak" (or not use any other types of wood) then God was really telling Noah to use any wood he wanted to when he said use gopher wood?
 
Sorry Reba, but I honestly have not been able to figure out what your question(s) is?

I think she is trying to misapply those verses and claim members of the church are to give up all their possessions then the possessions are to be equally redistributed as its done in Socialist countries as the United States.
 
Actually, it makes perfect sense that God would provide a Helper that will assist us in understanding His Word. What is also clear is that there are many people who "claim" to have received a revelation of scripture from the Holy Spirit and espouse some new doctrine from which it is based, yet are deceived. These are the ones we are warned to watch out for.


But Paul did not say when ye read ye may undestand only with miraculous help from the Holy Spirit. He said they could understand just by reading. If what you say is true, if one did not understand then they could
blame their lack of understanding on the Holy Spirit and the HS is culpable for people not understanding. ANd how do you explain these people that claim they get some direct miraculous understanding from the Holy SPirit yet they contradict each other and the bible?
 
Well, thanks for the discussion, even though I don't agree. I'm sure that if it turns out that I am doing anything wrong by worshipping with music that God will lay that on my heart. God bless.



GOd has already spelled it out inthe bible as to how He wants Cristians to worship Him. Worshipping God has never been a do-as-you-feel activity and God will just have to accept what ever kind of worship thrown at Him.
 
1Ti 2:8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.

Do you personally and or as congregation lift your hands while praying?
 
I can translate this evasive answer. I What Ernest means is that believers are saved by joining his denomination and adhering to its fabricated rules. Only members of the CoC and churches that practice exactly like they do, which is of course only the CoC, will escape the fire of hell.. Does that pretty much sum it up, Ernest?

I simply stated the bible determines how one is saved and not me. How is that eveasive? Would you like me to tell you what the bible says in how one becomes a Christian?

I never said that one is saved by joining my denomination. TO begin with I have no denominaton for anyone to join. The bible says and I agree that Christ is the Saviour of His ONE body and the only way to be saved is be in that one body/church.

Where I have I said one must do exactly like I do? I haven't. If one desires to be saved then he must do exactly like the bible says.


You are buliding some big strawmen here.
 
I don't think there's anything else to be gained from this discussion as far as I'm concerned, so I'll just agree to disagree. I'm done. Thank you for having me.
 
Ah, trying to cram God and the bible into your narrow view of them. Not going to work. In relation to what Mike stated, the narrow, legalistic view your denomination has come to accept as "true" is, thankfully, not what the bible teaches, by any stretch of the imagination.

I do have to applaud the fervor in which you defend your position, I just wish you used that kind of focus on what truly mattered. Witnessing to the lost so that they might be quickened the Holy Spirit and coming to a saving faith in Jesus Christ.


Again I see you using the word legalistic. Going strickly and exactly as the bible says is not legalistic but the bible calls that doing RIGHTEOUSNESS - not legalism. Not doing as the bible says is called UNRIGHTEOUSNESS. Can you show me just one example where someone in the bible was condemned by God for exactly doing as God said?
I will show you examples where God punished people for NOT doing exactly as he said.
 
1Ti 2:8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.

Do you personally and or as congregation lift your hands while praying?

Holy hands is a synecdoche where the part (hands) stands for the whole (Man). One may say a farmer has 100 head of cattle. It does not mean he has 100 literal heads lying in a field but the part (head) stands for the whole (cow). "Hands that shed innocent blood" is not just referring to the hands but the whole man. There is nothing holy about objects such as hands. The idea is that the man praying must himself be living a holy life, not just his hands be holy.


https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/1093-are-christians-required-to-lift-up-holy-hands

https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/585-should-we-lift-holy-hands-when-we-pray


(If some want to take this literally, then only males (aner) are to raise their hands and only do that while praying. I do not even remember the numbers of times I have seen on religious TV programs men raising their hands while NOT praying and women should not be raising their hands at all)
 
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by reba
Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Act 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

This is the Biblical example of the NT church does the cofC comply with the verses in Acts...

Again I see you using the word legalistic. Going strickly and exactly as the
bible says is not legalistic but the bible calls that doing RIGHTEOUSNESS - not
legalism. Not doing as the bible says is called UNRIGHTEOUSNESS. Can you show
me just one example where someone in the bible was condemned by God for exactly
doing as God said?
I will show you examples where God punished people for
NOT doing exactly as he said.
Do you personally own anything?
 
Holy hands is a synecdoche where the part (hands) stands for the whole (Man). One may say a farmer has 100 head of cattle. It does not mean he has 100 literal heads lying in a field but the part (head) stands for the whole (cow). "Hands that shed innocent blood" is not just referring to the hands but the whole man. There is nothing holy about objects such as hands. The idea is that the man praying must himself be living a holy life, not just his hands be holy.


https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/1093-are-christians-required-to-lift-up-holy-hands

Again I see you using the word legalistic. Going strickly and exactly as the bible says is not legalistic but the bible calls that doing RIGHTEOUSNESS - not legalism. Not doing as the bible says is called UNRIGHTEOUSNESS. Can you show me just one example where someone in the bible was condemned by God for exactly doing as God said?
I will show you examples where God punished people for NOT doing exactly as he said

https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/585-should-we-lift-holy-hands-when-we-pray


(If some want to take this literally, then only males (aner) are to raise their hands and only do that while praying. I do not even remember the numbers of times I have seen on religious TV programs men raising their hands while NOT praying and women should not be raising their hands at all)


Double standard?
 
(If some want to take this literally, then only males (aner) are to raise
their hands and only do that while praying. I do not even remember the numbers
of times I have seen on religious TV programs men raising their hands while NOT
praying and women should not be raising their hands at all)

Again I see you using the word legalistic.
Going strickly and exactly as the
bible says is not legalistic but the bible
calls that doing RIGHTEOUSNESS
- not
legalism. Not doing as the bible says is called UNRIGHTEOUSNESS. Can you show
me just one example where someone in the bible was condemned by God for exactly
doing as God said?
I will show you examples where God punished people for
NOT doing exactly as he said


Are you saying your not righteous? Do you adhere to your standards or not?
 
Are you saying your not righteous? Do you adhere to your standards or not?

reba said:
Double standard?


reba said:
Do you personally own anything?


you're judging others based upon nothing more than your misunderstanding of various passages.

You have not proven those passages are saying what you are twisting them to say. For example prove from Acts 2 Christians are to own nothing but sell everything. Acts 12:12 why would the mother of Mark own a house if they were suppose to sell all their posessions and own nothing?


Should Christians Have All Things in Common?

By Jason Jackson

“Does the New Testament indicate that the early Christians were forced to equally distribute their possessions among one another?”

No, rather Luke testifies to the voluntary, loving, and selfless disposition of Christians in Jerusalem:
“Now the full number of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and no one said that any of the things that belonged to him was his own, but they had everything in common. And with great power the apostles were giving their testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great grace was upon them all. There was not a needy person among them, for as many as were owners of lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold and laid it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to each as any had need” (Acts 4:32-35, ESV).
The fruit of the Spirit was manifested in the lives of the early saints. From this, some have concluded that Christianity demands some kind of social and economic equality among its members. It is alleged that Christ taught a religious socialism, or communism, where “all things common” means the mandated redistribution of possessions. This is not a biblical concept. It does not represent the facts recorded by Luke, and it does not conform to the sum of God’s Word pertaining to these matters.

Luke observed the gracious disposition of these early disciples. This vast multitude was of one heart and soul. Their common interest in the gospel overshadowed their diversity. The Lord’s resurrection convicted them to act with loving concern for their brethren (v. 33).

The selling of property was not obligatory. The examples of Barnabas and Ananias demonstrate the voluntary nature of this method of benevolence. Peter told Ananias, “While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal?” (Acts 5:4). It is apparent that not all Christians were dispossessed of their property, for the disciples were later meeting in the house of Mary, Mark’s mother, in Acts 12:12.

Not everyone received a distribution of what was laid at the apostles’ feet. “It was distributed to each as any had need” (Acts 4:35). J.W. McGarvey observed, “The fact that distribution was made to each as he had need, shows that it was only the needy who received any thing, and that there was no equalization of property” (Original Commentary on Acts, Bowling Green: Guardian of Truth, N.d., p. 67).

Richard N. Longenecker points out the historical context of the early church in Jerusalem: “With the economic situation in Palestine steadily deteriorating because of famine and political unrest (cf. Jeremias, Jerusalem, pp. 121-22), employment was limited – not only for Galileans and others who had left their fishing and farming for living in the city, but also for the regular residents of Jerusalem who now faced economic and social sanctions because of their new messianic faith” (Expositor’s Bible Commentary, Vol. 9, Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1981, p. 310).

The needy had a legitimate lack of necessities. The apostles would not have subsidized indigents who could work, yet refused to work. Those who can work, but do not, sin (not those who can not, like some disabled, sick, elderly, etc.). As Jack Cottrell correctly notes, “A deliberate refusal to work is a refusal to carry one’s share of the total load. Such a person is a parasite, a burden” (Tough Questions – Biblical Answers: Part One, Eugene: Wipf and Stock Publishers, 2001, p. 64).

Paul admonished that the unmotivated should go without, if they will not work (2 Thess. 3:10). Thus, a man’s industry corresponds to his welfare, and God may bless men with prosperity as they work hard and seek for spiritual wisdom. Likewise, the Bible teaches that a family has a greater moral obligation to their own (1 Tim. 5:3-8). If families would take care of their own needy, the church, Paul says, would not be burdened unnecessarily (1 Tim. 5:16). But supporting the sluggard only encourages him to continue in sin.

The church is not a communal society. Gareth Reese concludes appropriately, “Now both communism and fellowship (koinonia) have a root idea of ‘common.’ But after that, the two ideas go their separate ways. Communism says, ‘What is yours is mine, and I’ll take it!’ Fellowship says, ‘What is mine is yours; I’ll share it!’ The one forcibly invades the right of private property; the other voluntarily relinquishes the right of private property where it sees a need” (New Testament History: Acts, Joplin: College Press, 1976, p. 193).

Christians should be especially concerned with the household of faith (Gal. 6:10). Genuine faith and the love of God motivate them to assist their brethren with the world’s goods (Jas. 2:15-17; 1 Jn. 3:17). But the goal is not to bring out “economic justice.” This would contradict the law of sowing and reaping. Indiscriminate redistribution would put resources into the hands of the wasteful. It would reflect on God, who providentially blesses the industrious, wise, and generous Christian.

The goal of the church is not physical, although physical concerns are not to be neglected. The objective is heavenly and eternal, not earthly and temporary. Biblical authority and sound judgment must dictate the balanced use of its resources.


https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/1204-should-christians-have-all-things-in-common
 
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