Contradicting Beliefs

[reba]

Once again the problem is not so much the lack of IM it is the CofC teaching that they are the "only true church" as was stated by one of its members....And of all things CofC seems to base that teaching on something that isn't Scriptural.

 

[reba]

Ezra

Do you believe the Bible teaches by principles? I believe gambling is wrong, taught by Bible principles, yet it does not say "thou shalt not gamgble." The NT does say "sing", not "play", will someone please tell me whats so wrong with simply doing what the Bible says, minus our add ons? Of course, if you got rid of your 2 guitars and the piano you might lose your job as preacher too.

Here is a solid Biblical principle of praise ... This is what the Bible says to do.....
Psa 150:1 Praise ye the LORD. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.
Psa 150:2 Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness.
Psa 150:3 Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.
Psa 150:4 Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.
Psa 150:5 Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.
Psa 150:6 Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD.

 

[Deborah13]

Here is a solid Biblical principle of praise ... This is what the Bible says to do.....
Psa 150:1 Praise ye the LORD. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.
Psa 150:2 Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness.
Psa 150:3 Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.
Psa 150:4 Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.
Psa 150:5 Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.
Psa 150:6 Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD.

Colossians 3:16

King James Version (KJV)

16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

It appears that we are to use psalms to teach and admonish. That would include Psalms 150.

 

[reba]

Rom 16:16 Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you.

 

[ezra]

Ezra

Do you believe the Bible teaches by principles? I believe gambling is wrong, taught by Bible principles, yet it does not say "thou shalt not gamgble." The NT does say "sing", not "play", will someone please tell me whats so wrong with simply doing what the Bible says, minus our add ons? Of course, if you got rid of your 2 guitars and the piano you might lose your job as preacher too.

whats so wrong with simply doing what the Bible says,

nothing in the bible says we cant use instruments... you have no idea about my ministry as a pastor..one thing i don,t preach that is man made beliefs you have made it clear coc is the authority church... so comparing gambling to music instruments is grasping at straws

 

[ezra]

Rom 16:16 Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you.

better yet does coc practice this? it is bible...:o

 

[Deborah13]

Certanly, do you??

This is a serious question, I'm not asking to set you up for anything other than what I say!

In the new testament is there any where where it says Christians must have a wedding ceremony and publicly take vows of marriage to be married? I can't think of one. Jesus turn water into wine at a wedding feast at the govenor's but in the old testament I don't see a ceremony either.

And what is the doctrine of the Coc on this matter?

 

[Mike]

Sorry, Grazer. That would have been going way off topic. I've deleted a few other comments that were personal remarks.

 

[Webb]

Hi Debora13---Weddings are a civil ceremony not religious.

 

[Webb]

Reba, as per your post #85, every passage you cited was from the OT. Do you live under the OT law today? I don't thnk so. I have previously given a passage from the OT where IM was commanded by the Lord. You need one to show it was commanded in the NT. Unless it can be found, your premise has failed. In the NT, psalms, hymn and spirituial songs are to be sung, not played. Eph.5:19 and Col.3:16 teach God's instruction for psalms, hymns and spiritual songs whether in or out of the worship, it applies to the every day activity of christians. For example, Eph.5 also has instruction for husbands and wives, these instructions apply to Monday thru Saturday, not just Sunday in worship.

 

[Webb]

Ezra--No we in the churches of Christ DO NOT believe the church of Christ is the standard of authority. The truth (scripture) is the standard of authority, not the church. The church is to uphold the truth, note please from Paul to Timothy: "BUT IF I TARRY LONG, THAT THOU MAYEST KNOW HOW THOU OUGHTEST TO BEHAVE THYSELF IN THE HOUSE OF GOD, WHICH IS THE CHURCH OF THE LIVING GOD, THE PILLAR AND GROUND OF THE TRUTH."

 

[ezra]

Ezra--No we in the churches of Christ DO NOT believe the church of Christ is the standard of authority. The truth (scripture) is the standard of authority, not the church. The church is to uphold the truth, note please from Paul to Timothy: "BUT IF I TARRY LONG, THAT THOU MAYEST KNOW HOW THOU OUGHTEST TO BEHAVE THYSELF IN THE HOUSE OF GOD, WHICH IS THE CHURCH OF THE LIVING GOD, THE PILLAR AND GROUND OF THE TRUTH."

all right the church i pastor hold the same scriptures to Truth and we have a piano plus a sound system used for playing sound tracks to sing by.. does this make us of truth?

"BUT IF I TARRY LONG, THAT THOU MAYEST KNOW HOW THOU OUGHTEST TO BEHAVE THYSELF IN THE HOUSE OF GOD, WHICH IS THE CHURCH OF THE LIVING GOD, THE PILLAR AND GROUND OF THE TRUTH

once again we hold this scripture to be truth.. i will guarantee every body who attends church does to... so what sayest thou? i can go farther but i wont actually..this compared to beating a dead horse.

 

[rrowell]

all right the church i pastor hold the same scriptures to Truth and we have a piano plus a sound system used for playing sound tracks to sing by.. does this make us of truth?

The Bible says we are to be able to show why we believe what we do:

1 Peter 3:15 (KJV)
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

So I asketh, what is your biblical authority for your IM in your worship in the new testament church? what scripture do you use other than scripture from another covenant than the one our Lord made?

 

[reba]

there is no command any one can produce in the NT saying not to use IM.....

Adding to God's Word doesn't seem like a good idea to me....

 

[rrowell]

there is no command any one can produce in the NT saying not to use IM.....

Adding to God's Word doesn't seem like a good idea to me....

There is not a single command to use IM in the NT, your right Reba, adding to Gods word is not a good idea...

 

[Webb]

Rebe, when God says "sing" and you sing and play YOU have added to God's word.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

One must first differentiate between those beliefs which are essential for salvation and those that are not. As long as there is agreement in those core beliefs, then they can be said to be "in truth," that is, true followers of Christ. If the rest conflict and contradict, it matters not, but there should always be movement towards resolving those issues.

To read the Bible is to interpret it through one's own lenses and hence form one's own beliefs and doctrines. There are several problems that follow, not the least of which is human nature and the desire to be right. This causes a resistance to change and a change in one's beliefs can be exceedingly difficult.

Other problems include a lack of understanding of the purpose and role of Scripture, a lack of understanding of the significant difficulties with biblical interpretation, and a lack of reasoning.

Suffice to say that no one church, denomination, or person has it all right, although some have more right than others.

You will have contradicitions and disagreement over what beliefs are essential to savlation and which ones are not. A main point of conflict is over belief itself: does belief alone saved or does a belief that has works save?


You post "say that no one church, denomination, or person has it all right" If this is true then that would tell me then that no one will be saved. If one does not have to have it right then how much error can one be in and still be saved? Do all these relgious gorups have to have it right pertaining to savlation (belief) and can one be in error about salvation (belief) and still be saved?

 

[Knotical]

Rebe, when God says "sing" and you sing and play YOU have added to God's word.

That is quite the stretch there, Webb. Care to explain a bit further?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Jesus greatest frustration was seeing the way the pharisees stood in way of God's children and Him. Rules, rituals, laws. They can be useful or abusive. When they assume greater importance than a heart for the Lord, they are being abused. The accounts of children in the Gospels comes to mind. We know how the children breached the rules of decorum that were imposed by church leaders at the time. It was breaking protocol when the children ran up to our Lord.

Luke 18
"15 People were also bringing babies to Jesus to have him touch them. When the disciples saw this, they rebuked them. 16 But Jesus called the children to him and said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 17 I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.”

We grow in wisdom and knowledge of the Lord as we get older and invest more time in His Word, but that is for our benefit; not the Lord's. It is good to please Him and to know what pleases him. We complicate everything so much, building walls between the God of Love and others. When we put such rigid demands where God has not, such as "You may not use instruments during worship!" when the Bible never associates instruments with salvation, we cause believers to stumble. There are too many modern pharisees who impose all those rules that Jesus detested and too many children of Lord who believe them.

That's sad.

Matthew 12
"34 You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks. 35 The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. 36 But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. 37 For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”

Christians are under law to Christ, 1 Cor 9:21. John said sin was trnagression of the law, 1 Jn 3:4. So being under Christ's law and obeying that law is not the issue. The Pharisees were condemned for being hypocrites, condemned for trying to replace God's law with their traditions and were condemned for other things but the Pharisees were never condemned for following God's law but condmened time and again for disboeying God's law. Proverbs 3:1 Proverbs 7:2 Jeremiah 6:19 Jeremiah 9:13 Jeremiah 16:11 Eze 18:21 Eze 20:19

And God condemns the contradictions that exists today no differently than He condemned the Pharisees.

 

[reba]

As long as you stretch my words to fit what you want them to be I am in good company because cofC does the same to Gods Holy Word


Do your gatherings speak in tongues...As per 1 Co 14: 39

Have the CofC congregation sold all? as per the NT church
Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Do you meet in the temple daily ?

Mat_23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Rom_13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Any one in your gatherings owe a mortgage?