Daniel 9:27 and Daniel 12:11-12

[for_his_glory]

This paragraph of yours is contradictory. It says that the cross was in the 69th week and also the 70th week. Do you believe the 70th week started at the baptism or the cross?

Sorry, I meant that the 69 weeks where up to the time of Christ being baptized and started His ministry here on earth began the first half of the 70th weeks of years and the other half will be completed when Christ returns. Thank you for pointing out my mistake.

 

[DRS81]

the other half will be completed when Christ returns.

How is that possible though. The other half is only 3.5 years. The week spoken of in Dan 9:27 is a total of seven years.

 

[Deborah13]

How is that possible though. The other half is only 3.5 years. The week spoken of in Dan 9:27 is a total of seven years.

I date that time of 7 years from the time of John to the stoning of Stephen. After this is when the Gospel was presented to the non-Jewish people.

But others date the last 3.5 years to the years from about mid AD66 to AD70 when the city and the temple were actually destroyed.

 

[DRS81]

I date that time of 7 years from the time of John to the stoning of Stephen. After this is when the Gospel was presented to the non-Jewish people.

Ok. Also, where do you fit this in to Dan 9:26. If And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing. And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed.

Do you think this is the same people of the evil prince spoken of here..

Dan 9:26. If And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing. And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed.

Dan 9:27 And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”

 

[Deborah13]

Ok. Also, where do you fit this in to Dan 9:26. If And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing. And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed.

Do you think this is the same people of the evil prince spoken of here..

Dan 9:26. If And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing. And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed.

Dan 9:27 And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”

Did you read the links? Here is Adam Clarke again, scroll down to those verses.
http://biblehub.com/commentaries/clarke/daniel/9.htm

 

[for_his_glory]

I date that time of 7 years from the time of John to the stoning of Stephen. After this is when the Gospel was presented to the non-Jewish people.

But others date the last 3.5 years to the years from about mid AD66 to AD70 when the city and the temple were actually destroyed.

I agree with you that it was from John the baptist to the stoning of Stephen as this is the timing of when the Gospel was taught to the Gentiles.

 

[for_his_glory]

How is that possible though. The other half is only 3.5 years. The week spoken of in Dan 9:27 is a total of seven years.

We have to remember this is prophetic time and not the same as our days and years.

Daniel 9:24-27 establishes the timing of the first and second advents of Christ referred to as 70 weeks of years. The starting point of the 70 weeks of years was with the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem, (Daniel 9:25). Gabriel gave Daniel this prophecy during the time of Israel's exiled in Babylon right before the first remnant of Jews were allowed to return to Jerusalem around 536 B.C. under Zerubbabel. Cyrus, King of Persia, issued a decree to Zerubbabel to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem around 538 B.C., (2 Chronicles 36:22-23; Ezra 1:1-3; and Ezra 6:1-5). Jerusalem was in ruins at this time, having been destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar 70 years earlier in 586 B.C. The captivity had begun in 605 B.C., before the destruction of Jerusalem, when Nebuchadnezzar took Daniel and others to Babylon as hostages, Daniel 1:1-4.

The 490 years will be divided into three periods as follows: seven weeks (49 years) plus sixty-two weeks (434 years) plus one week (7 years). I believe these to be prophetic days and years and not literal as reference to 2Peter 3:8 . At the end of the first two periods (69 weeks or 483 years), the Messiah will be cut off, reference to the crucifixion, and that both Jerusalem and the Temple will be destroyed as the veil of the Temple was torn from top to bottom, Matthew 27:50. The prophecy concludes by focusing on the last week of years. It says that following the death of the Messiah the people (Disciples) of the prince (Messiah) shall destroy the city and the sanctuary (time of the Gentiles) as the flood means that the Gospel of Christ will be taught to Jew and Gentile all over the world and unto the end of the war (flesh and Spirit) desolations (sin) are determined. And he (Jesus) shall confirm the covenant (new covenant of grace) by making an end to all abominations that caused desolation or in other words make an end to all who would not accept Jesus as Lord and Savior.

 

[DRS81]

We have to remember this is prophetic time and not the same as our days and years.

No, the 490 years is based on the Jubilee calender of 360 days in the year.
It IS is based on our days.
One week is seven earth years. 70 weeks - 70x7 = 490.
(ONE WEEK) is the prophetic, 490 years is (THE EARTH YEARS).
Dan 9:27 is speaking in reference to seven earth years.

 

[for_his_glory]

There are so many different calculations presented by many people to what the 70 weeks are, but scripture never defines how long a period 70 weeks are so IMO they have to be prophetic timing of God and not our timing no matter what calendar is used. I believe it was man who determined the years and days by using logic, which at times logic can go against the word of God when we miss the Spiritual meaning.

 

[Sinthesis]

I agree with you that it was from John the baptist to the stoning of Stephen as this is the timing of when the Gospel was taught to the Gentiles.

Yes, the 70wks end at the stoning of Stephan. From Dan 9:24 we know that the 70wks are for Daniel's people and Daniel's city; Jews and Jerusalem. The six promises of the 70wks listed in the same verse to the Daniel's people and city are all good things. The extension of the Gospel, these six good things, to the Gentiles after the stoning of Stephan happens after the 70wks, as does all the bad things promised to the spiritually desolate who both refused the Gospel and persecuted those who accepted it.

 

[JLB]

Yes, the 70wks end at the stoning of Stephan. From Dan 9:24 we know that the 70wks are for Daniel's people and Daniel's city; Jews and Jerusalem. The six promises of the 70wks listed in the same verse to the Daniel's people and city are all good things. The extension of the Gospel, these six good things, to the Gentiles after the stoning of Stephan happens after the 70wks, as does all the bad things promised to the spiritually desolate who both refused the Gospel and persecuted those who accepted it.

Do you have any scripture for these things you are saying?


JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

Yes, the 70wks end at the stoning of Stephan. From Dan 9:24 we know that the 70wks are for Daniel's people and Daniel's city; Jews and Jerusalem. The six promises of the 70wks listed in the same verse to the Daniel's people and city are all good things. The extension of the Gospel, these six good things, to the Gentiles after the stoning of Stephan happens after the 70wks, as does all the bad things promised to the spiritually desolate who both refused the Gospel and persecuted those who accepted it.

I never said the 70 weeks ended with Stephen. What I meant and should of continued with was that the 70th week continued from the time of Stephen which brought the Gospel to the Gentiles up until the time of Christ return. Is 70 weeks literal or prophetic as it was Gabriel being spiritual that gave the prophecy to Daniel. There could be a possibility of man dating certain times and events that need not be timed by our own logic of time IMO.

 

[Sinthesis]

I never said the 70 weeks ended with Stephen. What I meant and should of continued with was that the 70th week continued from the time of Stephen which brought the Gospel to the Gentiles up until the time of Christ return. Is 70 weeks literal or prophetic as it was Gabriel being spiritual that gave the prophecy to Daniel. There could be a possibility of man dating certain times and events that need not be timed by our own logic of time IMO.

The 70wks are quite logical if we can accept that they are about Daniel's people and city, instead of us.

 

[Sinthesis]

Do you have any scripture for these things you are saying?


JLB

Yes, but the things I'm saying describe a way to understand scripture that is consistent with the rest of scripture. Eliminating scriptural conflicts demands challenging the basis for the assumptions we all have about the messages various scriptures communicate. Assumptions are difficult to expose as non-foundational, and this is why it is so difficult to get any point across. One assumption that distorts our ability to understand Dan 9 is the belief that we must somehow be included in the 70wks.

 

[Deborah13]

I never said the 70 weeks ended with Stephen. What I meant and should of continued with was that the 70th week continued from the time of Stephen which brought the Gospel to the Gentiles up until the time of Christ return. Is 70 weeks literal or prophetic as it was Gabriel being spiritual that gave the prophecy to Daniel. There could be a possibility of man dating certain times and events that need not be timed by our own logic of time IMO.

Sorry glory, I don't understand your reasoning.

There are scholars that have examined the book of Daniel next to the recorded history that has been uncovered by archeologists and they say that they believe that Daniel had to have been written after all those things already happened. They reasoning is that Daniel's prophecy is too accurate when compared to the written history. They are unbeliever's of coarse.

We know when Cyrus reigned, we know when Darius reigned, it's not in question by anyone even unbelievers.
So we know that the 69 weeks actually were 7 yrs. each totally 483 yrs. That is not in question.
So where in scripture are we allowed to make the last week, the 70th week extend out into some distant future? That is a corruption of the prophecy.

Deut. 31 and 32 - Moses' prophecy of these days.
Deu 31:29 For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands.
Deu 32:21 They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.

verses 22-27 destruction and diaspora described

Deu 32:28 For they are a nation void of counsel, neither is there any understanding in them.
Deu 32:29 O that they were wise, that they understood this, that they would consider their latter end!
Deu 32:30 How should one chase a thousand, and two put ten thousand to flight, except their Rock had sold them, and the LORD had shut them up?
Deu 32:31 For their rock is not as our Rock, even our enemies themselves being judges.
Deu 32:43 Rejoice, O ye nations, with his people: for he will avenge the blood of his servants, and will render vengeance to his adversaries, and will be merciful unto his land, and to his people.

Who are 'ye nations' goyim, gentiles, with His people, the Rock's people, Those who would except the Messiah both Jew and Gentile.

Rom 10:18 But I say,Ye Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
Rom 10:19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.

 

[JLB]

Yes, but the things I'm saying describe a way to understand scripture that is consistent with the rest of scripture. Eliminating scriptural conflicts demands challenging the basis for the assumptions we all have about the messages various scriptures communicate. Assumptions are difficult to expose as non-foundational, and this is why it is so difficult to get any point across. One assumption that distorts our ability to understand Dan 9 is the belief that we must somehow be included in the 70wks.

Those who are alive during that time will be included.

JLB

 

[ezrider]

The 70wks are quite logical if we can accept that they are about Daniel's people and city, instead of us.

It is ironic in my mind at least, because the covenant that was confirmed in Christ is the new covenant the we profess with our mouths to live under, it is a covenant of Faith and Grace in Christ. But if someone were to look at these verses and declare that they are in any way about us, then I must assume they believe themselves to be under the old covenant, maybe even subconsciously, or else it would not apply to them.

 

[ezrider]

Yes, but the things I'm saying describe a way to understand scripture that is consistent with the rest of scripture. Eliminating scriptural conflicts demands challenging the basis for the assumptions we all have about the messages various scriptures communicate. Assumptions are difficult to expose as non-foundational, and this is why it is so difficult to get any point across. One assumption that distorts our ability to understand Dan 9 is the belief that we must somehow be included in the 70wks.

I think when we devour the scriptures and obsess over every meaning and detail within the words, we begin forming for our own doctrine to make it all fit; and in the end we find that we cannot see the forest for all the trees. When we study the bible by our own will, we study and analyze the trees. We tend to focus on a individual passages for our understanding, and then with our human mind we try and reason it all out. But when our hearts and minds turn to Christ, and we truly allow the Spirit of God to instruct us, then we will find that the details of each the trees are just not as important any more, and that there is more understanding to be found in the simplicity of the scripture where the spirit instructs us, and he will show us the forest with all the trees: you might even find a Garden.

 

[Jack Spratt]

In my opinion....

It all makes sense that the 69th week ended with Christ's crucifixion, Then the 70th and final week begins at the beginning of the tribulation.

 

[JLB]

In my opinion....

It all makes sense that the 69th week ended with Christ's crucifixion, Then the 70th and final week begins at the beginning of the tribulation.

The 69th week ended when the whole city came out and proclaimed Hosanna to the son of David on the Sunday before His crucifixion.

That is why Jesus said these words -

"I tell you that if these should keep silent, the stones would immediately cry out.

Messiah the Prince refers to the Messianic proclamation of the people when Jesus came into the city of Jerusalem, where they cried out Hosanna to the son of David, and laid palm branches down before Him. This event is celebrated even to this day as "Palm Sunday". Hosanna is a Messianic term from psalms 118 that means "save now"! The priest's were angry with the people and asked Jesus to stop them because this was a reference to be made to YHWH.

Psalm 118:21-26
21 I will praise You, For You have answered me, And have become my salvation. 22 The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone. 23 This was the Lord's doing; It is marvelous in our eyes. 24 This is the day the Lord has made; We will rejoice and be glad in it. 25 Save now, I pray, O Lord; O Lord, I pray, send now prosperity. 26 Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! We have blessed you from the house of the Lord.

9 Then the multitudes who went before and those who followed cried out, saying: "Hosanna to the Son of David! 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!' Hosanna in the highest!" 10 And when He had come into Jerusalem, all the city was moved, saying, "Who is this?" 11 So the multitudes said, "This is Jesus, the prophet from Nazareth of Galilee." Matthew 21:9-11

Jesus said if these people don't praise me the stones will cry out.

This was the prophecy from Daniel being fulfilled and nothing in heaven or on earth was going to stop it from coming to pass!
This event marked the end of the 69th week!

Five days later, after the 69th week, Messiah was "cut off" on Passover.

26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;


JLB