Did Jesus take on the sins of the whole world?

[Randy]

There may be no difference with regard to the inclusion of Gentiles into the Judaic Covenant but God does exercise “respect “ between His people and those not His people. Cain and Abel in their offerings is example.

I would state God made a distinction between the righteous and unrighteous which was reflected in the Holy Scriptures even among the Israelites. He brought blessing and calamity distinguished by obedience and disobedience to His commands.

Currently those who God calls His children are those in Christ.
children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God

And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. (love from the heart not just lip service)

Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ a and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’ b 5But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is ‘devoted to God,’ 6they are not to ‘honor their father or mother’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:

8“ ‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
9They worship me in vain;
their teachings are merely human rules

 

[jeremiah1five]

I would state God made a distinction between the righteous and unrighteous which was reflected in the Holy Scriptures even among the Israelites. He brought blessing and calamity distinguished by obedience and disobedience to His commands.

Currently those who God calls His children are those in Christ.
children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God

And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. (love from the heart not just lip service)

Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ a and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’ b 5But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is ‘devoted to God,’ 6they are not to ‘honor their father or mother’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:

8“ ‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
9They worship me in vain;
their teachings are merely human rules

Let's be clear. You use the word 'distinction' but Scripture identifies it as 'having respect to.'

And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD. 4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering: 5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect.
Ge 4:3–5.

Notice God having this respect on the person also.
God is a respecter of persons. Between His people and those not His people.

Peter's statement that God is not a respecter of person has to do with Gentiles in general and as a people being added into covenant with the 'Jews' and receiving the Promised Holy Spirit.

 

[Randy]

Let's be clear. You use the word 'distinction' but Scripture identifies it as 'having respect to.'

And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD. 4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering: 5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect.
Ge 4:3–5.

Notice God having this respect on the person also.
God is a respecter of persons. Between His people and those not His people.

Peter's statement that God is not a respecter of person has to do with Gentiles in general and as a people being added into covenant with the 'Jews' and receiving the Promised Holy Spirit.

To those who were His people God stated, "The soul who sins will die". The law had curses and blessings and in a manner of speaking so does the new covenant as the wrath of God was also stated in the gospel message. Someone who brings a better offering to the Lord speaks of a person who has reverence and love for God as they took care of what was brought before Him for that offering.

 

[jeremiah1five]

To those who were His people God stated, "The soul who sins will die". The law had curses and blessings and in a manner of speaking so does the new covenant as the wrath of God was also stated in the gospel message. Someone who brings a better offering to the Lord speaks of a person who has reverence and love for God as they took care of what was brought before Him for that offering.

The soul who sins does die. We all die. It is appointed unto men TO die.
Then the judgment.
Right?

 

[Fastfredy0]

Jesus died for everyone. We all will face him one day. If you don't accept him as lord and savior you don't love him and don't go to heaven. He is mercyful and gracious. He is also just.

There are billions who have died in the last 2000 years who never heard of Christ and therefore are in Hell. Is God "merciful and gracious" to those people? If He died for those people, why does He not see to it that they hear of Him and then could appropriate saving faith?

 

[Fastfredy0]

RESPONSE: Well, atpollard, I happen to believe Judas Iscariot is elect and saved through the atonement of Christ. There are no apostles of the Lamb/Christ in 'hell' [eternally separated and damned.]

I tend to agree with you most times so far, but not this time. Scripture says Judas went to hell

Matt. 26:24 The Son of Man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.”
John 17:12 While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

 

[Randy]

The soul who sins does die. We all die. It is appointed unto men TO die.
Then the judgment.
Right?

Again that was stated to His people. A distinction between the righteous and unrighteous.

 

[Randy]

There are billions who have died in the last 2000 years who never heard of Christ and therefore are in Hell. Is God "merciful and gracious" to those people? If He died for those people, why does He not see to it that they hear of Him and then could appropriate saving faith?

With light comes accountability.
If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin.

So while I don't state those who never heard of Jesus are saved neither do I state they are condemned. Rather I state that they would come before the one who judges and He will make a judgment concerning them and nothing is hidden from Him. Again this is in regard to those who have never heard of Christ.

 

[Fastfredy0]

So while I don't state those who never heard of Jesus are saved neither do I state they are condemned.

The bible says all who sin are condemned.
John 3:18 Whoever believes and has decided to trust in Him [as personal Savior and Lord] is not judged [for this one, there is no judgment, no rejection, no condemnation]; but the one who does not believe [and has decided to reject Him as personal Savior and Lord] is judged already [that one has been convicted and sentenced], because [a]he has not believed and trusted in the name of the [One and] only begotten Son of God [the One who is truly unique, the only One of His kind, the One who alone can save him]. AMP

Romans 1 says all are without excuse
Conclusion: Those that have not heard of Christ go to hell (there is debate about age of accountability). Therefore, God is not "merciful and gracious" to those people.

 

[Iconoclast]

A Christian is suppose to Grow

Real Christians do grow and progress in holiness Heb12:14, however we are still capable of sin here on this earth.

So you still deny we are to move from the life described in Romans 7 to the life described in Romans 8

That is a historically false teaching out of what was called the Keswick movement. They taught the error of entire sanctification which is unbiblical to the max.

 

[Iconoclast]

Why are you bothering her with such questions?

Hello Randy, She posted some earlier statments. The questions were asked of her, so she could clarify HER thoughts

You don't know?

I was not asking myself, but her.

Wouldn't the result be our salvation?

The questions were designed to have her walk through what she thinks on it.

 

[Iconoclast]

"made alive in the spirit" as I read
For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit; 19 in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water.

post 110 answers you

 

[Deidr]

.

Real Christians do grow and progress in holiness Heb12:14, however we are still capable of sin here on this earth.

That is a historically false teaching out of what was called the Keswick movement. They taught the error of entire sanctification which is unbiblical to the max.

I can't deny the contrast that is clearly written between Romans 7 and Romans 8.

If you can so be it to your understanding

 

[Randy]

The bible says all who sin are condemned.
John 3:18 Whoever believes and has decided to trust in Him [as personal Savior and Lord] is not judged [for this one, there is no judgment, no rejection, no condemnation]; but the one who does not believe [and has decided to reject Him as personal Savior and Lord] is judged already [that one has been convicted and sentenced], because [a]he has not believed and trusted in the name of the [One and] only begotten Son of God [the One who is truly unique, the only One of His kind, the One who alone can save him]. AMP

Romans 1 says all are without excuse
Conclusion: Those that have not heard of Christ go to hell (there is debate about age of accountability). Therefore, God is not "merciful and gracious" to those people.

How then does Sodom have a better judgement?
People before Christ and apart from law might have a better judgment. I don't know. Jesus saw with His eyes that Sodom would have repented if He had performed miracles to them and that was seen in their favor.

Then Jesus began to denounce the towns in which most of his miracles had been performed, because they did not repent. 21“Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. 23And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted to the heavens? No, you will go down to Hades. e For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day. 24But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you.”

Jesus judges by His righteousness. Before the light of the gospel message reached distant parts of the world to people who lived in darkness and ignorance of God and His ways I think its up to Jesus to decide not just yes they all die.

 

[Randy]

post 110 answers you

I stated what "I" read. Can you show where Noah preached to these spirits?

 

[Deidr]

With light comes accountability.
If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin.

So while I don't state those who never heard of Jesus are saved neither do I state they are condemned. Rather I state that they would come before the one who judges and He will make a judgment concerning them and nothing is hidden from Him. Again this is in regard to those who have never heard of Christ.

Funny thing is there are many people who do righteous probably much more than people who call themselves Christians, that may just be acceptable to God where He allows them to meet Jesus.

Didn't Peter say NOW HE SEES GOD IS NO RESPECTOR OF PERSON THAT ANYONE THAT DOES RIGHTEOUS IS ACCEPTABLE TO HIM...

SO I WOULD NOT JUDGE BEFORE ITS TIME.

 

[Deidr]

So you think that these men who know what the greek text says in scripture are not concerned with truth? I gave you a list in which half of the men are teachers of the greek. they explained what it says.

Godly teachers are not carnal wicked men. This shows a special level of ignorance to suggest this.

You clearly do not understand the answer given. You like others prefer to turn from light to darkness.

You sin in thought, word and deed everyday. You are not better than the Apostle Paul.
Rom.7
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh

.

I can't deny the contrast that is clearly written between Romans 7 and Romans 8.

If you can so be it to your understanding

Philippians 3:12

I don’t mean to say that I have already achieved these things or that I have already reached perfection. But I press on to possess that perfection for which Christ Jesus first possessed me.

Note to self
Wonders if He is speaking of being saturated by Love

 

[Deidr]

If not after the cross then "made alive in the spirit" is a false narrative as Jesus was alive and in the flesh not as one who would be made alive in the spirit and in the

Good point..

spirit preach to spirits in that state and not as one in the flesh. I state what I read and what I read is truth.

In regard to the other matter. Gods goodwill was toward man as in regard to man its stated:
"There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus."

 

[Randy]

Funny thing is there are many people who do righteous probably much more than people who call themselves Christians, that may just be acceptable to God where He allows them to meet Jesus.

Didn't Peter say NOW HE SEES GOD IS NO RESPECTOR OF PERSON THAT ANYONE THAT DOES RIGHTEOUS IS ACCEPTABLE TO HIM...

SO I WOULD NOT JUDGE BEFORE ITS TIME.

Thats very general. Can you be more specific on this general righteousness these many people do that is "much more" than those in Christ?

First of all those who listen to and learn from the Father go to Christ. So you are speaking of people who don't know, don't belong to, and can't hear or don't listen to what God states and are still in their sin and slaves to sin.

John wrote, Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what He commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person.
So it is more than lip service.

And the blessings that Jesus stated to the 7 named churches in revelation are to those who overcome and are victorious.

As the Father also states:
He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

 

[Fastfredy0]

How then does Sodom have a better judgement?
People before Christ and apart from law might have a better judgment. I don't know. Jesus saw with His eyes that Sodom would have repented if He had performed miracles to them and that was seen in their favor.

I don't see the relevance to my statement: Those that have not heard of Christ go to hell (there is debate about age of accountability). Therefore, God is not "merciful and gracious" to those people.
Aside: When it comes to the specifics of the content of salvific faith I try to speak of things after the death of Christ as we have more info and it is more relevant.

Then Jesus began to denounce the towns in which most of his miracles had been performed, because they did not repent. 21“Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. 23And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted to the heavens? No, you will go down to Hades. e For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day. 24But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you.”

Interesting story. It is a rebuttal of Free Will as Christ says He would be the determining factor in regard to their repentance.

Jesus judges by His righteousness. Before the light of the gospel message reached distant parts of the world to people who lived in darkness and ignorance of God and His ways I think its up to Jesus to decide not just yes they all die.

Agreed, Jesus judges. Agreed, it's up to Jesus to decide. God wrote John 3:18 telling us that knowledge of Christ is critical if one wishes to be saved.
John 3:18 Whoever believes and has decided to trust in Him [as personal Savior and Lord] is not judged [for this one, there is no judgment, no rejection, no condemnation]; but the one who does not believe [and has decided to reject Him as personal Savior and Lord] is judged already [that one has been convicted and sentenced], because he has not believed and trusted in the name of the [One and] only begotten Son of God [the One who is truly unique, the only One of His kind, the One who alone can save him]. AMP
Premise 1: one must believe and trust in only begotten son to be saved or he will be judged (John 3:18)
Premise 2: People can't believe and trust in the Son of God if they have no knowledge of same
Conclusion: Those that have not heard of Jesus and die are in Hell and these people do NOT take part in God's Grace and Mercy.

It's not rocket science. People's bias that God loves everyone salvificly without exception leads them to find all kinds of ways to get to heaven without Christ. They're favorite is to somehow use Romans 1 saying everyone has knowledge of God so there is not excuse and therefore, due to their bias, assert that there is another way to be saved.
If there's another way ... tell us about it, tell us if it's more efficacious than knowing Christ, tell us what happens someone saved by your "other way" and then hears about Christ and doesn't believe the story of Christ, tell us your scripture verses to support your contentions.

Warning when you preach another gospel
Gal. 1:6 I am astonished and extremely irritated that you are so quickly shifting your allegiance and deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different [even contrary] gospel; 7 which is really not another [gospel]; but there are [obviously] [b]some [people masquerading as teachers] who are disturbing and confusing you [with a misleading, counterfeit teaching] and want to distort the gospel of Christ [twisting it into something which it absolutely is not]. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we [originally] preached to you, let him be condemned to destruction!
What is your other gospel of salvation?