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Did Jesus take on the sins of the whole world?

Fastfredy0 said:
I don't see the relevance to my statement: Those that have not heard of Christ go to hell (there is debate about age of accountability). Therefore, God is not "merciful and gracious" to those people.
Aside: When it comes to the specifics of the content of salvific faith I try to speak of things after the death of Christ as we have more info and it is more relevant.



Interesting story. It is a rebuttal of Free Will as Christ says He would be the determining factor in regard to their repentance.



Agreed, Jesus judges. Agreed, it's up to Jesus to decide. God wrote John 3:18 telling us that knowledge of Christ is critical if one wishes to be saved.
John 3:18 Whoever believes and has decided to trust in Him [as personal Savior and Lord] is not judged [for this one, there is no judgment, no rejection, no condemnation]; but the one who does not believe [and has decided to reject Him as personal Savior and Lord] is judged already [that one has been convicted and sentenced], because he has not believed and trusted in the name of the [One and] only begotten Son of God [the One who is truly unique, the only One of His kind, the One who alone can save him]. AMP
Premise 1: one must believe and trust in only begotten son to be saved or he will be judged (John 3:18)
Premise 2: People can't believe and trust in the Son of God if they have no knowledge of same
Conclusion: Those that have not heard of Jesus and die are in Hell and these people do NOT take part in God's Grace and Mercy.

It's not rocket science. People's bias that God loves everyone salvificly without exception leads them to find all kinds of ways to get to heaven without Christ. They're favorite is to somehow use Romans 1 saying everyone has knowledge of God so there is not excuse and therefore, due to their bias, assert that there is another way to be saved.
If there's another way ... tell us about it, tell us if it's more efficacious than knowing Christ, tell us what happens someone saved by your "other way" and then hears about Christ and doesn't believe the story of Christ, tell us your scripture verses to support your contentions.

Warning when you preach another gospel
Gal. 1:6 I am astonished and extremely irritated that you are so quickly shifting your allegiance and deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different [even contrary] gospel; 7 which is really not another [gospel]; but there are [obviously] [b]some [people masquerading as teachers] who are disturbing and confusing you [with a misleading, counterfeit teaching] and want to distort the gospel of Christ [twisting it into something which it absolutely is not]. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we [originally] preached to you, let him be condemned to destruction!
What is your other gospel of salvation?
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We preach to the living not the ancient dead. Christ did that and any redemption given was through Him.
 
Fastfredy0 said:
I don't see the relevance to the eternal destiny of those who never heard of Christ, but I agree.


I don't see the relevance to the eternal destiny of those who never heard of Christ, but I agree.
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I don't state those who have never heard of Christ are saved. I not preaching hell for them either. Rather such a decision is in Jesus's hands ALONE.

For those who continue to sin after coming to the knowledge of the truth they will perish.
 
Randy said:
I don't state those who have never heard of Christ are saved. I not preaching hell for them either. Rather such a decision is in Jesus's hands ALONE.
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Fair enough. Why is John 3:18 not explicit enough to convince you? I laid it out to simplify it. Which premise is false or why does the conclusion not follow?

John 3:18 Whoever believes and has decided to trust in Him [as personal Savior and Lord] is not judged [for this one, there is no judgment, no rejection, no condemnation]; but the one who does not believe [and has decided to reject Him as personal Savior and Lord] is judged already [that one has been convicted and sentenced], because he has not believed and trusted in the name of the [One and] only begotten Son of God [the One who is truly unique, the only One of His kind, the One who alone can save him]. AMP
Premise 1: one must believe and trust in only begotten son to be saved or he will be judged (John 3:18)
Premise 2: People can't believe and trust in the Son of God if they have no knowledge of same
Conclusion: Those that have not heard of Jesus and die are in Hell
 
Fastfredy0 said:
Fair enough. Why is John 3:18 not explicit enough to convince you? I laid it out to simplify it. Which premise is false or why does the conclusion not follow?

John 3:18 Whoever believes and has decided to trust in Him [as personal Savior and Lord] is not judged [for this one, there is no judgment, no rejection, no condemnation]; but the one who does not believe [and has decided to reject Him as personal Savior and Lord] is judged already [that one has been convicted and sentenced], because he has not believed and trusted in the name of the [One and] only begotten Son of God [the One who is truly unique, the only One of His kind, the One who alone can save him]. AMP
Premise 1: one must believe and trust in only begotten son to be saved or he will be judged (John 3:18)
Premise 2: People can't believe and trust in the Son of God if they have no knowledge of same
Conclusion: Those that have not heard of Jesus and die are in Hell
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How does above deal with peoples of the earth in the past that had never heard of Jesus? It took time for the gospel message to reach all around the globe.

I believe those who reject Jesus will perish in their sin.
 
Randy said:
Thats very general. Can you be more specific on this general righteousness these many people do that is "much more" than those in Christ?

First of all those who listen to and learn from the Father go to Christ. So you are speaking of people who don't know, don't belong to, and can't hear or don't listen to what God states and are still in their sin and slaves to sin.

John wrote, Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what He commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person.
So it is more than lip service.

And the blessings that Jesus stated to the 7 named churches in revelation are to those who overcome and are victorious.

As the Father also states:
He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”
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What about those who were not under the law but did what the law said. I'M JUST SAING CAN A PERSON ENTER THE ACTIONS OF GOD NOT KNOWING ABOUT HIS DEATH, BURIAL AND RESURRECTION.
Randy said:
Thats very general. Can you be more specific on this general righteousness these many people do that is "much more" than those in Christ?

First of all those who listen to and learn from the Father go to Christ. So you are speaking of people who don't know, don't belong to, and can't hear or don't listen to what God states and are still in their sin and slaves to sin.

John wrote, Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what He commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person.
So it is more than lip service.

And the blessings that Jesus stated to the 7 named churches in revelation are to those who overcome and are victorious.

As the Father also states:
He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”
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Acts 10 | KJV Bible | YouVersion

Conversion of Cornelius There was a certain man in Cæsarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band, a devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave
www.bible.com

May want to copy the link

Or. 1 acts 10
 
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Randy said:
How does above deal with peoples of the earth in the past that had never heard of Jesus? It took time for the gospel message to reach all around the globe.

I believe those who reject Jesus will perish in their sin.
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I saw a YouTube story where a little Moslem girl was dying who knew nothing about Jesus and He came to her. So I will never say what God can't do.
 
Deidr said:
I saw a YouTube story where a little Moslem girl was dying who knew nothing about Jesus and He came to her. So I will never say what God can't do.
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Are you stating that girl came to Christ on her death bed and so was saved or someone who stayed Muslim was saved?
 
Re: John 3:18
Randy said:
How does above deal with peoples of the earth in the past that had never heard of Jesus?
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It answers the question as to the eternal fate of those who die in the last 2000 years who never heard of Jesus. You said you don't know their fate and I presented this answer.

Randy said:
I believe those who reject Jesus will perish in their sin.
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Well, that's is true but it doesn't answer the topic at hand; what happens to people who never heard of Jesus and die. They technically can't reject something that they know nothing about.
 
Deidr said:
I'd have to find the video, point is she saw Jesus...so whatever that means to you.
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Jesus is the only way to the Father so if she came to Christ on her deathbed there is no conflict.
You tube videos are not scripture and content creators monetize that platform. Emotional content like you state tends to draw views. It should always be taken with a grain of salt.
 
Fastfredy0 said:
Re: John 3:18

It answers the question as to the eternal fate of those who die in the last 2000 years who never heard of Jesus. You said you don't know their fate and I presented this answer.


Well, that's is true but it doesn't answer the topic at hand; what happens to people who never heard of Jesus and die. They technically can't reject something that they know nothing about.
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So Christ brought death to those who never heard of Him? I think you see the wrong context.

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

As opposed to those that received Him and believed in Him.


With light comes accountability. Before such light its up to Jesus to decide their fate.
 
Randy said:
Jesus is the only way to the Father so if she came to Christ on her deathbed there is no conflict.
You tube videos are not scripture and content creators monetize that platform. Emotional content like you state tends to draw views. It should always be taken with a grain of salt.
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Now Randy 😃 If youtube videos aren't to be believed neither are other forms of communication. All I was saying is I don't know how God will do things but if it will be done it will be done through Jesus.
 
Deidr said:
I'd have to find the video, point is she saw Jesus...so whatever that means to you.
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For what it's worth ... I've heard (4th hand) of missionaries going to places that never heard of Christ and finding people who Christ went to. Now, I imagine this is a 1 in a 100 million occurrence and I can't verify the story. Similarly, I head of Muslims converting to Christianity and enduring many hard ships because Christ had spoken to them. Are the stories true, I don't know.
 
Deidr said:
Now Randy 😃 If youtube videos aren't to be believed neither are other forms of communication. All I was saying is I don't know how God will do things but if it will be done it will be done through Jesus.
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Views generate money and the love of money is root of all evil. Take note.
 
Fastfredy0 said:
Romans 1 says there is NO EXCUSE so all are accountable; all have 'light'.

Well, they have the light according to Romans 1 and John 3:18 tells us what the verdict is for those who don't believe in Christ.
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yes but a very reasonable expectation would be they had the light and didn't believe. And as such they have no excuse.
 
Randy said:
yes but a very reasonable expectation would be they had the light and didn't believe. And as such they have no excuse.
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Well, God says everyone has enough light so as they are without excuse (Rom. 1). Not everyone has enough light to be saved. The additional light is knowledge and trust in Christ. Without this additional light John 3:18 says they're "toast" (going to hell).
 
Fastfredy0 said:
Well, God says everyone has enough light so as they are without excuse (Rom. 1). Not everyone has enough light to be saved. The additional light is knowledge and trust in Christ. Without this additional light John 3:18 says they're "toast" (going to hell).
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Saved from what?
 
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