Bible Study Do those not born-again go to Hell

[Admiral]

It is interesting to note that Jesus entrusted us with Himself and gave this instruction to us....

John 12:32 (The Message)

32And I, as I am lifted up from the earth, will attract everyone to me and gather them around me."

Jesus is not lifted up when you argue doctrine...Jesus is ONLY lifted up when you present Him as a suffering savior, who died to set you free from your sins.

That is the principle in correcting all people of thier views. And it can be abused if placed in the wrong hands and used in the wrong way. Heaven help the person who crushes a child of God when correcting/rebuking them...Because no one can help you if you have God against you.

 

[Solo]

It is interesting to note that Jesus entrusted us with Himself and gave this instruction to us....

John 12:32 (The Message)

32And I, as I am lifted up from the earth, will attract everyone to me and gather them around me."

Jesus is not lifted up when you argue doctrine...Jesus is ONLY lifted up when you present Him as a suffering savior, who died to set you free from your sins.

That is the principle in correcting all people of thier views. And it can be abused if placed in the wrong hands and used in the wrong way. Heaven help the person who crushes a child of God when correcting/rebuking them...Because no one can help you if you have God against you.

Jesus is speaking of his crucifixion on the cross. Here is the entire scripture:

23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified. 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. 25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. 26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour. 28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again. 29 The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him. 30 Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes. 31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. 32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. 33 This he said, signifying what death he should die. 34 The people answered him, We have heard out of the law that Christ abideth for ever: and how sayest thou, The Son of man must be lifted up? who is this Son of man? 35 Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth. 36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them. John 12:23-36

Jesus said, "Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many" (Matthew 24:4).

Should believers allow false teachings to deceive their brothers and sisters in Christ, or should the false teachings be reproved, rebuked, and shown to be against the Word of God?

What does Paul say about those that teach false doctrines?

17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. 18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple. Romans 16:17-18

The Word of God is given by God for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness. The Word of God is NOT for false doctrines, allowance of false living, ignoring those that need correction, instruction in unrighteousness.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
2 Timothy 3:16-17

 

[Solo]

This is a Christian forum and the Word of God is for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness. If you can not accept the Word of God, then you are in the wrong place.

 

[lecoop]

This is a Christian forum and the Word of God is for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness. If you can not accept the Word of God, then you are in the wrong place.

Well said, Solo!

 

[mutzrein]

Solo

I suppose since rebuking another in the manner that you have shown us, is quite plainly scriptural by your definition - but still I cannot - I will not level an accusation against another in like manner. All I can say is, The Lord rebuke thee. That is sufficient for me.

Great. Now study the website that I posted that show with 100% certainty that Jesus is God.

PS. I am not too worried about your Jesus rebuking me. Afterall, your Jesus is not God. :wink:

And now I see why so many people are hoodwinked. I know it is a common doctrine but that is what happens when the bible is interpreted on the basis of an intellectual premise. But let me make this clear. The issue for me is not so much the doctrine. A man who remains in faith believing Jesus is God and another who remains in faith believing He is God's son are no less God's children. And as such each are responsible to God.

As scripture says, "Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand."

So can I give you some advice Solo. Don't hide behind the veil of reproof and rebuke in order to judge someone elses servant. It is in Christ that I have my being. He is my Lord, my saviour and he alone will judge.

So when you say that because I believe as I do that I am going to hell, it is not me that is being judged.

 

[Solo]

Explain John 1:1-15 where the Word was in the beginning, the Word was with God, and the Word was God. All things were made by the Word and without the Word nothing was made. In the Word was life and the life was the light of men. The Word was made flesh and dwelt among mankind.


Greek NT: Textus Receptus (1550/1894)
English: American Standard Version
English: King James Version

John 1:1-15

1. εν αρχη ην ο λογος και ο λογος ην προς τον θεον και θεος ην ο λογος

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2. ουτος ην εν αρχη προς τον θεον

The same was in the beginning with God.

The same was in the beginning with God.

3. παντα δι αυτου εγενετο και χωρις αυτου εγενετο ουδε εν ο γεγονεν

All things were made through him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made.

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4. εν αυτω ζωη ην και η ζωη ην το φως των ανθρωπων

In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5. και το φως εν τη σκοτια φαινει και η σκοτια αυτο ου κατελαβεν

And the light shineth in the darkness; and the darkness apprehended it not.

And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

6. εγενετο ανθρωπος απεσταλμενος παρα θεου ονομα αυτω ιωαννης

There came a man, sent from God, whose name was John.

There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

7. ουτος ηλθεν εις μαρτυριαν ινα μαρτυρηση περι του φωτος ινα παντες πιστευσωσιν δι αυτου

The same came for witness, that he might bear witness of the light, that all might believe through him.

The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

8. ουκ ην εκεινος το φως αλλ ινα μαρτυρηση περι του φωτος

He was not the light, but [came] that he might bear witness of the light.

He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9. ην το φως το αληθινον ο φωτιζει παντα ανθρωπον ερχομενον εις τον κοσμον

There was the true light, [even the light] which lighteth every man, coming into the world.

That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

10. εν τω κοσμω ην και ο κοσμος δι αυτου εγενετο και ο κοσμος αυτον ουκ εγνω

He was in the world, and the world was made through him, and the world knew him not.

He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11. εις τα ιδια ηλθεν και οι ιδιοι αυτον ου παρελαβον

He came unto his own, and they that were his own received him not.

He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12. οσοι δε ελαβον αυτον εδωκεν αυτοις εξουσιαν τεκνα θεου γενεσθαι τοις πιστευουσιν εις το ονομα αυτου

But as many as received him, to them gave he the right to become children of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13. οι ουκ εξ αιματων ουδε εκ θεληματος σαρκος ουδε εκ θεληματος ανδρος αλλ εκ θεου εγεννηθησαν

who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14. και ο λογος σαρξ εγενετο και εσκηνωσεν εν ημιν και εθεασαμεθα την δοξαν αυτου δοξαν ως μονογενους παρα πατρος πληρης χαριτος και αληθειας

And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth.

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

15. ιωαννης μαρτυρει περι αυτου και κεκραγεν λεγων ουτος ην ον ειπον ο οπισω μου ερχομενος εμπροσθεν μου γεγονεν οτι πρωτος μου ην

John beareth witness of him, and crieth, saying, This was he of whom I said, He that cometh after me is become before me: for he was before me.

John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

 

[mutzrein]

If that request was for me, I will in a day or so - or when I can. It's late here NZ time (midnight) and I need rest before performing a duty required of me by our justice system. Then the weekened and - oh boy the kids will want my attention.

 

[mutzrein]

To bring the meaning of the ‘Word of God’, as it is spoken of in John, into a perspective which can be understood, I would like to use a human analogy.

When I speak, the words that I speak come from within me. As the scripture says, “out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.†So while the words physically emanate from me, the words are actually a reflection of what is in my heart. So when you hear the words that I speak, although your ears physically discern the audible sound of my voice, it is not just my voice that you are ‘hearing.’ It is me, because the words spoken by my voice reflect who I am. And they do this because they come from within me. They say who I am. They are who I am. Or to put it another way, my word is with me, and my word is me.

Now, there are two elements involved here. One is me, and the other is the conduit (for want of a better word) through which I make myself known - that is, the word of my mouth. But in reality you cannot separate me from the word of my mouth because we are one. So, my ‘word’ is me because it is a manifestation of who I am. But while I can say, ‘my word is me’ it is impossible for each (that is my ‘word’ and ‘me’) to be precisely the same thing because each has a different function. Together they are one but are still distinctly different.

And the relationship between God and the Word of God (Jesus) can be likened to this. Of course all I am able to do is to describe in human terms something which man, on an intellectual plain, may never understand. But now with the understanding of the human analogy I will briefly describe what John 1:1 is saying. I think the rest should fall into place when one has the understanding of it.

In the beginning was the Word. The Word of God was in the beginning.
and the Word was with God. The Word of God was with God - by virtue of the fact that He (Jesus) is distinctly different to God. That is why it says He was with Him.
and the Word was God. And ‘the Word was God’ does not describe physically what he is (ie that Jesus is God), but what His function in relationship to God is. He is the Word of God, He is the conduit through which God speaks, through which God creates. He is the One who reflects all that God is. The Word is what God speaks, and Jesus being the Word and reflecting the Father, shows us the Father. So without a doubt the Word is God.

And as Jesus said, “I and the Father are one." And again he said, –The words that I speak are not just my own. Rather it is the Father living in me who is doing his work.â€Â

Regards

 

[protos]

When Jesus said:

"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." (John 3:3)

Born-again means to believe in Christ, or repent from your sinful way/lifestyle. Since all people are born into the bondage of sin, anyone who believes in Christ is born-again. In fact the very fact that you're worrying about this shows that you're born again:

"Whosoever therefore shall confess Me before men, him will I confess also before My Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 10:32).

Just confess Christ (not for publicity), but in your heart.

So, do those not born-again go to Hell? Yes.

 

[mutzrein]

When Jesus said:

"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." (John 3:3)

Born-again means to believe in Christ, or repent from your sinful way/lifestyle. Since all people are born into the bondage of sin, anyone who believes in Christ is born-again. In fact the very fact that you're worrying about this shows that you're born again:

"Whosoever therefore shall confess Me before men, him will I confess also before My Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 10:32).

Just confess Christ (not for publicity), but in your heart.

So, do those not born-again go to Hell? Yes.

I don't see any evidence in the scriptures that you have quoted that those who are not born again go to hell.

 

[Solo]

To bring the meaning of the ‘Word of God’, as it is spoken of in John, into a perspective which can be understood, I would like to use a human analogy.

When I speak, the words that I speak come from within me. As the scripture says, “out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.†So while the words physically emanate from me, the words are actually a reflection of what is in my heart. So when you hear the words that I speak, although your ears physically discern the audible sound of my voice, it is not just my voice that you are ‘hearing.’ It is me, because the words spoken by my voice reflect who I am. And they do this because they come from within me. They say who I am. They are who I am. Or to put it another way, my word is with me, and my word is me.

Now, there are two elements involved here. One is me, and the other is the conduit (for want of a better word) through which I make myself known - that is, the word of my mouth. But in reality you cannot separate me from the word of my mouth because we are one. So, my ‘word’ is me because it is a manifestation of who I am. But while I can say, ‘my word is me’ it is impossible for each (that is my ‘word’ and ‘me’) to be precisely the same thing because each has a different function. Together they are one but are still distinctly different.

And the relationship between God and the Word of God (Jesus) can be likened to this. Of course all I am able to do is to describe in human terms something which man, on an intellectual plain, may never understand. But now with the understanding of the human analogy I will briefly describe what John 1:1 is saying. I think the rest should fall into place when one has the understanding of it.

In the beginning was the Word. The Word of God was in the beginning.
and the Word was with God. The Word of God was with God - by virtue of the fact that He (Jesus) is distinctly different to God. That is why it says He was with Him.
and the Word was God. And ‘the Word was God’ does not describe physically what he is (ie that Jesus is God), but what His function in relationship to God is. He is the Word of God, He is the conduit through which God speaks, through which God creates. He is the One who reflects all that God is. The Word is what God speaks, and Jesus being the Word and reflecting the Father, shows us the Father. So without a doubt the Word is God.

And as Jesus said, “I and the Father are one." And again he said, “The words that I speak are not just my own. Rather it is the Father living in me who is doing his work.â€Â

Regards

So the Word is not a person in your assessment. Jesus is God but only in the sense that the Word is spoken from God, not in the sense the Jesus is God. With your lack of faith in who God is, shows a finite definition of God due to lack of knowing him personally.

The Hebrew Word יהוה is Jehovah and is translated Lord in the KJV. This Word is defined as:

Jehovah = "the existing One"

• 1. the proper name of the one true God[list:60acd]a. unpronounced except with the vowel pointings of 0136

[/list:u:60acd]This word, Jehovah, is translated LORD 6510 times, GOD 4 times, JEHOVAH 4 times , and a variant 1 time.

In the Greek Septuagint this same word is tranlated into the Greek as κυριος tranliterated Kurios. This Word is defined as:

1. he to whom a person or thing belongs, about which he has power of deciding; master, lord

• a. the possessor and disposer of a thing[list:60acd]i. the owner; one who has control of the person, the master
  ii. in the state: the sovereign, prince, chief, the Roman emperor

b. is a title of honour expressive of respect and reverence, with which servants greet their master

c. this title is given to: God, the Messiah[/list:u:60acd]
This word, Kurios, is translated Lord 667 times, lord 54 times, master 11 times, sir 6 times, Sir 6 times, and miscellaneous 4 times. Let us look at a verse of scripture in the same chapter where John declares that the Word is God and that the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.

John the Baptist is being asked by the Jewish priests and Levites who he was, and John replied, "I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias" (John 1:22-23).
John says that he is one in the wilderness making straight the way of the LORD (Kurios) as Isaiah prophesied.

What did Isaiah prophesy?

Isaiah 40:3 says, "The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD (Jehovah), make straight in the desert a highway for our God (Elohiym)."

Who was John the Baptist speaking of? Jesus Christ the Lord (Kurios) and Savior.

What did Isaiah prophesy?

That John the Baptist, was the voice that cried in the wilderness to prepare the way of Jehovah (Hebrew יהוה transliterated Jehovah. Greek κυριος tranliterated Kurios), make straight in the desert a highway for our GOD (Hebrew לאלהינו׃ transliterated 'elohiym. Greek θεου tranliterated Theo).

Jesus said that among those born of women there existed noone greater than John the Baptist (Matthew 11:11) The greatest among those born of women would not have declared that he was the voice of one in the wilderness preparing the way of Jehovah God unless it was truth. John knew that Jesus was God.

In Revelation we see that Jesus is returning and he is the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last. Notice that he himself calls himself the Almighty.

7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. 8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. Revelation 1:7-8

The word translated almighty is the Greek word παντοκρατωρ, and is translated 10 times in the New Testament. It is translated almighty 9 times, and omnipotent 1 time. Following are the total number of verses that tranlate the Greek word παντοκρατωρ in the New Testament as described:

2 Corinthians 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Revelation 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

Revelation 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

Revelation 15:3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

Revelation 16:7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.

Revelation 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

Revelation 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Revelation 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

Who is the Alpha Omega, the First and the Last? Jesus the Word.

10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. 12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; 13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. 14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; 15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. 16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. 17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. 19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; 20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
Revelation 1:10-20

6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. Revelation 21:6-7

13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. 16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Revelation 22:13-16

 

[mutzrein]

So the Word is not a person in your assessment. Jesus is God but only in the sense that the Word is spoken from God, not in the sense the Jesus is God. With your lack of faith in who God is, shows a finite definition of God due to lack of knowing him personally.

I did not say that the Word is not a person. I gave you a human analogy of something of the Spirit. As indeed a parable does. And the only reason that I gave you that analogy is because things of the Spirit are only apprehended by those who have the eyes to see and the ears to hear. And so are the words of Jesus confirmed.

 

[Solo]

So the Word is not a person in your assessment. Jesus is God but only in the sense that the Word is spoken from God, not in the sense the Jesus is God. With your lack of faith in who God is, shows a finite definition of God due to lack of knowing him personally.

I did not say that the Word is not a person. I gave you a human analogy of something of the Spirit. As indeed a parable does. And the only reason that I gave you that analogy is because things of the Spirit are only apprehended by those who have the eyes to see and the ears to hear. And so are the words of Jesus confirmed.

So your analogy is not a good explanation of who Jesus is. The Bible says that the Word is God, and the Bible says that Jesus is Jehovah God, and the Bible says that Jesus is the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, and Almighty God. I am not surprised that you did not expound on this information.

Jesus is God, and your position is????????

Is Jesus Jehovah God?
Is Jesus God the Almighty?
Is Jesus the Alpha and Omega?
Is Jesus Lord of Lords?
What part of John the Baptist's cry in the wilderness and Isaiah's prophesy do you not understand?

 

[mutzrein]

Solo

I would like to offer you something to read – as I have also offered to others. It is a treatise on the gospel entitled “If you Care (read this) The Gospelâ€Â. It is written by a friend with my collaboration. Now I don’t expect that you do read it, but if you want to know the premise of which I speak and understand what it means to walk in the Spirit then I encourage you to read it.

I would also suggest if you are prepared to, to humble yourself and say to the Lord, “Lord, I don’t understand what this guy is saying but if it is of you and if he is saying something that I need to be open to, then give me the key that will open the eyes of my understanding.â€Â

If you will not or cannot do this then I cannot help you. And the things that I say will only confound you more and more as you seek to justify why I cannot know the intimacy of a relationship with God who through His own son created all things and again through His own son will judge in righteousness.

 

[Solo]

mutzrein,
I have illustrated from the Word a couple of portions that reveal that Jesus is Jehovah God incarnate. My understanding is not flawed, and no man's book will replace the Bible. If ones understanding cannot be enlightened through the Word of God, then ones understanding is biased towards another.

So far, the discussions that we have had concerning the deity of Jesus Christ has been one-sided with scripture given and explanation made with no response.

Is Jesus Jehovah God as John the Baptist said?

Is Jesus God Almighty as revealed in Revelation?

By the way, I understand exactly what you are saying, and God has revealed himself to me throughout time in marvelous ways in sorrow and in joy.

Jesus is either God, or he is created; there is no in between; therefore since the Word of God says that there was nothing created that was created except by Him, then Jesus is God.

 

[mutzrein]

Topic continued from another thread

... but are you saying those not born-again go to hell?

If a person isn't "regenerated", which is to say acceptance of Jesus Christ as opposed to rebellion, then one must conclude that it's the desire to be without God. And I don't think God would make you be somewhere you don't want to be in the first place, that is, with Him in heaven.
Can one be with God in heaven without Christ? Deists believe so but that's not based on scripture.

If we are not born again, we are not Christians. We repented when we accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior. How can we not be born again if we are repented of our old selvs?

Heaven isn't the issue. It is hell. What do you say happens to those not born again? Do they go to hell according to your understanding?

 

[mutzrein]

Topic continued from another thread

... but are you saying those not born-again go to hell?

If a person isn't "regenerated", which is to say acceptance of Jesus Christ as opposed to rebellion, then one must conclude that it's the desire to be without God. And I don't think God would make you be somewhere you don't want to be in the first place, that is, with Him in heaven.
Can one be with God in heaven without Christ? Deists believe so but that's not based on scripture.

If we are not born again, we are not Christians. We repented when we accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior. How can we not be born again if we are repented of our old selvs?

Heaven isn't the issue. It is hell. What do you say happens to those not born again? Do they go to hell according to your understanding?

If you are not born again you are not Christian. If you are not Christian you are not saved.

Yes I understand what you are saying. But are you not concluding that someone who is not 'saved' is going to hell? This is not a forgone conclusion for me. Convince me.

 

[mutzrein]

According to the Bible, yes, you will be burned. I don't think people who never heard Jesus will be burned in hell but if we reject Him when we had a choice, yes we will be burnd. That's why we have to convince people to accept Jesus.

OK then, three questions for you.

1. Can you point to the scriptures where it says that those that are not born again will be burned?

2. If someone who has never heard of Jesus doesn't get burned where do you say they go?

3. Where does it say that we have to convince people to accept Jesus.

Thanks

 

[mutzrein]

According to the Bible, yes, you will be burned. I don't think people who never heard Jesus will be burned in hell but if we reject Him when we had a choice, yes we will be burnd. That's why we have to convince people to accept Jesus.

OK then, three questions for you.

1. Can you point to the scriptures where it says that those that are not born again will be burned?

2. If someone who has never heard of Jesus doesn't get burned where do you say they go?

3. Where does it say that we have to convince people to accept Jesus.

Thanks

1. Are you a new believer? If you are not a new believer why are you playing a game?

No I am not a new believer. I am not playing a game. I want to test the foundation of your beliefs

2. What is your denomination?

I don't have a denomination.

3. Are you the kind that believe all you need is one time confession and you are saved forever? Do you believe OSAS theology?

No. No.

What I am trying to do is determine why you believe the things you believe. I am not going to castigate you for believing something that is different to me. Nor do I seek to bring into question your walk with God. However, we do sometimes unwittingly build on a foundation that is not sound, so would you mind someone testing the foundation?

 

[mutzrein]

Woops this was a double posting that came up with a 'general error'