I think we agree on many things about the Son.
I still am not clear about your view of the most important aspect of His identity as God; the Lord God Almighty.
Do you believe Jesus is Lord; YHWH, the Lord God Almighty?
JLB
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Eternal Security of the Believer
- Thread starter Alfred Persson
- Start date
I think we agree on many things about the Son.
I still am not clear about your view of the most important aspect of His identity as God; the Lord God Almighty.
Do you believe Jesus is Lord; YHWH, the Lord God Almighty?
JLB
You contradict yourself. If the life in Christ is the Father, then no one lives because of Jesus. Only the Father.
Is English your native language?
If you want to read it that way its fine with me but this is what Jesus stated. I guess the life source of Jesus is the Father.
Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.
Again you contradict your self. No guessing allowed. If the one who feeds on Jesus lives because of Jesus, then you are contradicting scripture to say the life source is the Father. Scripture says its Jesus. The Father gives life to Jesus, but JESUS gives life to those who feed on Jesus. You contradict that.
And is English your native tongue? Why won't you answer that question?
I only said Jesus's life source is the Father. Jesus is our life source I agree because the Father has granted Jesus life in Himself and chose to reconcile us to himself by Jesus. You just read it. You go back and read again. post 124 For I did write in English.
For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself.
Either you believe the life in Jesus is Jesus', or you believe the Father (all the fulness) is the source.
Which is it?
And i asked if English is your native tongue, you contradict yourself often like someone who doesn't understand how to express themselves with precision, in English.
The Father
Col 1:19 - from the will of another
Yes, the Son is God.
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the LORD my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
Zechariah 14:4-5
- Thus the LORD my God will come, and all the saints with You.
Jesus Christ, the LORD God will come with the saints on the Day of the Lord.
JLB
Great, we agree that Jesus and the Father are one.
The question I ask you is:
Do you believe Jesus Christ the Son is God?
Yes?
No?
I don’t know?
JLB
He has always been the Son. He has His own mind, will and spirit. Though the Deity in Him is the Fathers it was gifted to Jesus as part of His being to dwell forever with His spirit . That Deity will act according to Jesus's will. Jesus has that authority. As by Jesus God created. As by Jesus we live. As by Jesus we will be raised on the last day. As by Jesus He raised Himself from the dead. They are one.
God will do everything He is pleased to do. But as a Son Jesus abides within the framework of His Fathers will. Jesus always does what pleases the Father and remains in the Fathers love. Though we were to sin the Father will never take His love away from Jesus.
I believe this as well.
Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me;
The Son who was, His spirit, was in that body and the Father was living in Him.
In keeping with the Fathers will Jesus will remain in heaven until God makes His enemies His footstool. And it seems its by Jesus that God does that very act.
The lamp in the New Jerusalem is Jesus but the light of the eternal Spirit that shines through that lamp is the Fathers. The Eternal Spirit of the only true God without limit that dwells in Him forever. They are one.
Then you contradict Scripture:
"For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself,
(Jn. 5:26 NKJ)
Just as the Father has life in Himself, it is His to do with as He pleases, SO has He granted the Son to have life in Himself, to do with as He pleases.
The life in Christ to give live to others, is Christ's, NOT the Father's JUST as the Father's life in Himself, Is His own and does not belong to someone else.
YOU contradict scripture, therefore YOU are wrong.
The Father is the only true God and Jesus's life source you deal with it I am tired of arguing.
You are tired of arguing Jesus is not Yahweh God. But He clearly is, scripture contradicts you:
Yahweh God ON EARTH (Gen. 18:1-2, 21) rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah FROM Yahweh God OUT OF HEAVEN.
Then Yahweh rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from Yahweh out of the heavens. (Gen. 19:24)
So two Persons are called Yahweh God in that scripture, Jesus and the Father.
Therefore:
Jesus is the True God, equally with His Father, both are Yahweh God, Yahweh is One (0259 אֶחָד 'echad)
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life. (1 Jn. 5:20 NKJ)
God is One, a composite unity:
"Hear, O Israel: Yahweh our God, Yahweh is one (0259 אֶחָד 'echad)! (Deut. 6:4 NKJ)
"One" (0259 אֶחָד 'echad) denotes composite unity just as two become ONE flesh;
Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one (0259 אֶחָד 'echad) flesh. (Gen. 2:24 NKJ)
A "name" in scripture is more than a label, it describes the nature of what is named, its "contents".
Scripture declares there are Three Divine Persons (Father Son and Holy Spirit) in the One Name of God:
"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit - Matthew 28:19 NKJ
You contradict scripture:
Jesus is Yahweh, the only True God.
Therefore you are wrong.
There is a penalty to pay for willfully sinning after the Bible has corrected you:
The Torments of hell not only repay the unsaved for their sins, it burns out of them all self delusion and slavery to untruth. Then, after much painful torment, you will be given a chance to repent and believe Jesus is LORD, to the glory of God the Father--But not if you are also guilty of Eternal Sins (Mt. 12:32)
But you will stay in hell until Judgment Day:
Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men - (2 Cor. 5:11 NKJ)
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
(Matt. 7:13-14 KJV)
BUT confess Jesus is Yahweh you will do, to the glory of God the Father whether you want to or not:
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,
11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
(Phil. 2:10-11 NKJ)
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Confess Jesus is Yahweh you will do, to the glory of God the Father, whether you want to or not:
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,
11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
(Phil. 2:10-11 NKJ)
This last proof has particular power to me. When I was a student of Jehovah's Witnesses I learned the Greek word κύριος "LORD" in the NT should be translated "Jehovah" when it quotes the OT referring to Jehovah God.
Philippians 2:9-11 quotes the OT which refers to Jehovah God as Saviour (Isa. 45:22-25), therefore the New World Translation of the Jehovah's Witnesses should have translated it:
"every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Jehovah, to the glory of God the Father."
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The one who gave Him that name is Yahweh And my God. Jesus is my Lord whom I love and believe in as far back as my memory goes (No JW training or following).
Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
The Father has not received from any other being and yet has life in Himself because as the Head of the body of Christ has declared Him the only true God and His God.
So when you state that I will have to declare Jesus is God or Jehovah you are very much mistaken. I will and do now declare Jesus is Lord and my Lord.
I know my Lord and He knows me.
You can't know Him, you don't believe Him:
30 "I and My Father are one."
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him.
32 Jesus answered them, "Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?"
33 The Jews answered Him, saying, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God."
34 Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law,`I said, "You are gods "'?
35 "If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),
36 "do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world,`You are blaspheming,' because I said,`I am the Son of God '?
37 "If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me;
38 "but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him." (Jn. 10:30-38 NKJ)
I do know Him.
I do believe Him -the Father is the only true God.
No, you created an idol, a caricature of Jesus that you believe.
Contrary to what you say, John the apostle says:
Jesus is the True God and Eternal life:
20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen. (1 Jn. 5:20-21 NKJ)