Forum Poll

[GodsGrace]

Oh, Saint Hermas,my favorite saint.
Except there's no proof he was a real person.

He was real and he knew what he was talking about.
Did you read the ECFs?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

He was real and he knew what he was talking about.
Did you read the ECFs?

There you go with your abbreviations again.There was Hermas and Poliemus and Serapian from Alexandria.
Then there was Hermas and Serapian and Polaenus from Rome.
Problem is they were martyred in different places at a different time.
Sounds reliable, doesn't it?
Or maybe you are talking about Hermas the priest who served under Nicander the Bishop?

 

[GodsGrace]

There you go with your abbreviations again.There was Hermas and Poliemus and Serapian from Alexandria.
Then there was Hermas and Serapian and Polaenus from Rome.
Problem is they were martyred in different places at a different time.
Sounds reliable, doesn't it?
Or maybe you are talking about Hermas the priest who served under Nicander the Bishop?

The Early Church Fathers.
There was the Apostles, the apologists, and the Early Church Father's...pre Nicene.
From after Jesus died to about 350 ad.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

The Early Church Fathers.
There was the Apostles, the apologists, and the Early Church Father's...pre Nicene.
From after Jesus died to about 350 ad.

Yes, that's when Rome eliminated the church fathers and took over the church
I know all about it

 

[MCoop]

complicated theology and the tense in which verses are written aside...Scripture plainly tells believers to work out our salvation with fear and trembling, to fight good fight, and to run the race in such a way as to win. This is --serious-- business. Elsewhere, we are told the teachers and ministers will be -judged- according to a higher standard, and that he who endures to the end shall be saved. Even for believers, Scripture explains that God's judgment shall be as a fire, burning up that which is made of wood and straw. In Revelations, it is written that if we turn lukewarm, Jesus we spit us out.

And...many are called, few are chosen. The sheep know His voice. How can one claim to be in the flock if one not only does not know His voice, but one chooses to reject His voice, given the opportunity? -Most- people are on the broad road that leads to destruction. Few are on the narow way that leads to life everlasting. Add in warnings of false prophets who will deceive the very elect, if possible; wolves in sheep's clothing; and, of course, the wheat and the tares...

how can one come to the conclusion that those who turn apostate are saved? I don't think it fits in with the overall message of Scripture.

Apostates were never saved. Just a tare among wheat. Wolves in sheeps clothing. The elect in God are kept by the power of God through faith

 

[MCoop]

If your born again, then reject. Would you be unsaved or never saved. Then, if unsaved, could you be resaved.

Never saved. Rejection of the gospel are the rotten fruit apostates bear.. whether it be in doctrine or deeds. You shall know them by their fruit

 

[MCoop]

Unsaved
Yes

No such thing

 

[FreeGrace]

Can you in all honesty believe that those who believe and then stop believing will always suffer while on earth? I believed when I was young but I don't recall having it all that bad for the 20 years during which I no longer believed. In fact, there are times when my life was a lot more pleasant than it is now. Jesus even said we will have trials and tribulations.

What I know is what the Bible says. And just observing others is no indication as to whether they are or are not suffering.

As to your own experience, just remember that God is gracious and doesn't just drop the hammer the instant we step out of line.

But the point remains clear from Scripture. Rebellious children will not get away with anything.

And I have yet to see anything in the many warnings in Scripture that states that salvation can be lost.

To the contrary, Jesus taught that those who believe have eternal life in John 5:24 and 6:47 and He taught that He is the giver of eternal life and then He taught that recipients of eternal life (which happens WHEN one believes) shall never perish in John 10:28.

John 16:33 is one such verse (NKJV) "These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”

People can have peace when suffering, except when the suffering is from discipline. Then no peace.

Where you talk of heavenly rewards I see much is spoken of in the Bible but what I still haven't been able to reconcile is the rewards along with Revelation 21:3-4 (NKJV)

And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”

In order to realize the reward, one would have to know there are other levels. Would it not bring sorrow to know that one did not receive the greater reward?

I don't see Rev 21:3-4 as speaking of rewards, but a description of eternal life after the Millennial reign on the "old" earth.

However, what makes sense to me is that those who lost reward (1 Cor 3:14-15) will just be quite glad they are in heaven.

Remember that from Rev 21:3-4, every tear will be wiped away, so I don't believe there will be sorrow. We won't have our sin natures, which would react that way.

 

[FreeGrace]

We have eternal life only by being united with Jesus as his body and his bride; by "putting on Christ".(Ro 13:140 )( Gal 3:27) We have eternal life by being "one flesh" with Christ. (Eph 5:30-32.)

You don't get eternal life unless you believe

Correct. Jesus taught that those who believe possess (have) eternal life in John 5:24 and 6:47. And this means that one possesses eternal life WHEN one believes. So when Jesus said in John 10:28 that those He gives eternal life (which is WHEN they believe) shall never perish, we know that the promise to never perish is made WHEN one believes, not after any kind of probationary period, or and the end of one's life, as some have claimed.

 

[FreeGrace]

If your born again, then reject. Would you be unsaved or never saved. Then, if unsaved, could you be resaved.

Jesus taught that those who believe possess eternal life (they're saved) in John 5:24 and 6:47. This means they possess eternal life WHEN they believe since there are no verses that speak of any kind of probationary period.

Then Jesus said in John 10:28 that He gives eternal life, and those He gives eternal life shall never perish.

So the promise of never perishing is based on being given eternal life WHEN one believes.

If there were conditions to meet in order for recipients of eternal life to meet so as to never perish, Jesus was seriously in error for not making that clear in John 10:28.

Yet, that verse contains no conditions for recipients of eternal life. So on the basis of being given eternal life, the recipient shall never perish.

Very clear words from our Lord.

 

[FreeGrace]

Never saved. Rejection of the gospel are the rotten fruit apostates bear.. whether it be in doctrine or deeds. You shall know them by their fruit

The definition of apostasy is: to no longer believe what was once believed.

So, if a true believer cannot actually reject the gospel at a later date, the word has no meaning.

Charles Templeton was an apostate. He went from an evangelist who mentored Billy Graham to losing his faith.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

The definition of apostasy is: to no longer believe what was once believed.

So, if a true believer cannot actually reject the gospel at a later date, the word has no meaning.

Charles Templeton was an apostate. He went from an evangelist who mentored Billy Graham to losing his faith.

He never lost his faith.
He died receiving Jesus again.
The Holy Spirit loses nobody.

 

[LovethroughDove]

At what point does a person become born again?

When they believe the Gospel?

When they are baptized?

I believe most of you OSAS folks claim it is when you believe, however, you may have a different point of view that the others.



JLB

When God gives a person the Holy Spirit you are born again.
John 14:15-17 "If you love me, you will obey what I command. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever - the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

This process above is the born again. You now see Spirit and not of flesh. Let's break this down, because he says he will give us the Spirit of truth forever. This is the sealing of someone who is born again. Let's also look at what he said about loving him.... He is not going to give his Spirit to someone he knows is not in it for the right reason. He gives those of us who love him and if we love him we will obey him and hence he puts his Spirit in those he knows will do the right thing.

Obviously nothing I've said before about the different kinds of soils (hearts) has resonated with either you or FreeGrace. This is the key to you both getting on the same page. Cause I agree with your premise that those who love him will do his will, and I agree with FreeGrace about not losing the Spirit. But I disagree with your premise that you can lose being born again and the Spirit and I very much disagree with FreeGrace that all the people with the different soils were born again and cannot lose salvation. (They were on the path of Faith, but only the good soils were the ones who love him and will obey)

 

[Jim Parker]

Yes, that's when Rome eliminated the church fathers and took over the church
I know all about it

Edit by Stovebolts

 

[Mike]

Somehow, I had cast the wrong vote early on in the thread and just realized. Corrected it to "No". Just explaining this switch to whoever is watching the tally.

 

[FreeGrace]

He never lost his faith.
He died receiving Jesus again.
The Holy Spirit loses nobody.

He did go through a period of time where he did lose his faith. That's not to say he lost his salvation. I am not familiar with his final days/moments.

I agree that those who have received the gift of eternal life CANNOT PERISH because Jesus said recipients of eternal life shall never perish. Jn 10:28

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

First, What I explained in answer to your question, is the case.

Second in answering your additional question, Jesus said what He did in John 14:6 because it’s true. He then went on to prove it’s true via The Father’s acceptance of His perfect sacrifice for the sins of the world.

Third, (and last request as to stay in line with the forum rules) You still haven’t answered my question (even though I’m answering yours):

Did Jesus tell His disciples that the rich man will or will not enter Heaven in the passage you brought up below (it’s a simple question):

And Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I say to you that a rich one will enter with-difficulty into the kingdom of the heavens.​

Matthew 19:23 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Matthew 19:23&version=DLNT

Jesus said it's impossible for rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven . Not with difficulty but IMPOSSIBLE. I believe the reason being verse Mathew 6:24
24 “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

He did go through a period of time where he did lose his faith. That's not to say he lost his salvation. I am not familiar with his final days/moments.

I agree that those who have received the gift of eternal life CANNOT PERISH because Jesus said recipients of eternal life shall never perish. Jn 10:28

Yet the writer of Hebrew assures it would be impossible for many who have fallen away....Hebrews 6:6

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

First, What I explained in answer to your question, is the case.

Second in answering your additional question, Jesus said what He did in John 14:6 because it’s true. He then went on to prove it’s true via The Father’s acceptance of His perfect sacrifice for the sins of the world.

Third, (and last request as to stay in line with the forum rules) You still haven’t answered my question (even though I’m answering yours):

Did Jesus tell His disciples that the rich man will or will not enter Heaven in the passage you brought up below (it’s a simple question):

And Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I say to you that a rich one will enter with-difficulty into the kingdom of the heavens.​

Matthew 19:23 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Matthew 19:23&version=DLNT

Chessman I apologize asking you for this , but again what do you think Jesus asked the rich man to obey , but not once did he ask the Rich man to believe in Him . Why ?
I believe the entire heresy of the doctrine of easy believism is exposed by Jesus and the rich man story. So i request you to let me know why do you think Christ didn't ask rich man to BELIEVE and instead asked him to OBEY
what was the Lord thinking when He said that?

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

I wish to thank this platform, our website , for giving an opportunity to everyone to ask questions and share their views , backed by verses of course. It is edifying me immensely, and I hope it encourages and edifies others as well. I believe many false teachers have emerged on the horizon , teaching false doctrine , and websites like this enables us to ask questions
Something we are not (mostly)able to do while listening to Church teachers/ preachers. It's a one way street , which restricts edification.