Amen. We need the Spirit to produce divine Good(and understand how to do it/His doctrines/mind.) If we are not saved we cannot produce divine Good because we do not have the Spirit. Seems simple. But it seems most would rather chew rocks and depend on their ability to chew rocks?
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Rajesh Sahu
2024 Supporter
why then does Paul say this in Romans 8:13-14?
Romans 8: 12-13
" Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it.
For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live."
To me its clear Paul is saying --- if you choose to live in sin you will eternally perish. If he is warning is of perishing if we live in sin, how did he say we can yet be saved yet as if by fire? Was Paul contradicting himself or what?
Rajesh Sahu
2024 Supporter
Here is quoting a bunch commentaries from Bible hub on Romans 8: 13.
Not one agrees with what you interpret BUT clearly say that Paul meant eternal spiritual death and NOT physical death. I guess you're just hoping that Paul was talking about body dying due to sinfulness. That may also be true , but what Paul here is talking is what Christ often taught----- SIN CAUSES DAMNATION and that's why Jesus came to die for us ------------sin is a BIG deal. we will NOT remain covered by Christ's redeeming blood anymore if we choose to live in sin despite what Christ did for us on the cross ( Hebrew 6:5-6)
http://biblehub.com/commentaries/romans/8-13.htm
what do you think of em bro chessman?
Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(13) If ye through the Spirit . . .—If under the influence of the Spirit you reduce to a condition of deadness and atrophy all those practices to which the impulses of your material nature would prompt you.
Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary
8:10-17 If the Spirit be in us, Christ is in us. He dwells in the heart by faith. Grace in the soul is its new nature; the soul is alive to God, and has begun its holy happiness which shall endure for ever. The righteousness of Christ imputed, secures the soul, the better part, from death. From hence we see how much it is our duty to walk, not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. If any habitually live according to corrupt lustings, they will certainly perish in their sins, whatever they profess. And what can a worldly life present, worthy for a moment to be put against this noble prize of our high calling? Let us then, by the Spirit, endeavour more and more to mortify the flesh. Regeneration by the Holy Spirit brings a new and Divine life to the soul, though in a feeble state. And the sons of God have the Spirit to work in them the disposition of children; they have not the spirit of bondage, which the Old Testament church was under, through the darkness of that dispensation. The Spirit of adoption was not then plentifully poured out. Also it refers to that spirit of bondage, under which many saints were at their conversion. Many speak peace to themselves, to whom God does not speak peace. But those who are sanctified, have God's Spirit witnessing with their spirits, in and by his speaking peace to the soul. Though we may now seem to be losers for Christ, we shall not, we cannot, be losers by him in the end.
Barnes' Notes on the Bible
For if you live ... - If you live to indulge your carnal propensities, you will sink to eternal death; Romans 7:23.
Through the Spirit - By the aid of the Spirit; by cherishing and cultivating his influences. What is here required can be accomplished only by the aid of the Holy Spirit.
Do mortify - Do put to death; do destroy. Sin is mortified when its power is destroyed, and it ceases to be active.
The deeds of the body - The corrupt inclinations and passions; called deeds of the body, because they are supposed to have their origin in the fleshly appetites.
Ye shall live - You shall be happy and saved. Either your sins must die, or you must. If they are suffered to live, you will die. If they are put to death, you will be saved. No man can be saved in his sins. This closes the argument of the apostle for the superiority of the gospel to the Law in promoting the purity of man. By this train of reasoning, he has shown that the gospel has accomplished what the Law could not do - the sanctification of the soul, the destruction of the corrupt passions of our nature, and the recovery of man to God.
Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
13. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die—in the sense of Ro 6:21.
but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body—(See on [2226]Ro 7:23).
ye shall live—in the sense of Ro 6:22. The apostle is not satisfied with assuring them that they are under no obligations to the flesh, to hearken to its suggestions, without reminding them where it will end if they do; and he uses the word "mortify" (put to death) as a kind of play upon the word "die" just before. "If ye do not kill sin, it will kill you." But he tempers this by the bright alternative, that if they do, through the Spirit, mortify the deeds of the body, such a course will infallibly terminate in "life" everlasting. And this leads the apostle into a new line of thought, opening into his final subject, the "glory" awaiting the justified believer.
Note, (1) "There can be no safety, no holiness, no happiness, to those who are out of Christ: No "safety," because all such are under the condemnation of the law (Ro 8:1); no holiness, because such only as are united to Christ have the spirit of Christ (Ro 8:9); no happiness, because to be "carnally minded is death" (Ro 8:6)" [Hodge]. (2) The sanctification of believers, as it has its whole foundation in the atoning death, so it has its living spring in the indwelling of the Spirit of Christ (Ro 8:2-4). (3) "The bent of the thoughts, affections, and pursuits, is the only decisive test of character (Ro 8:5)" [Hodge]. (4) No human refinement of the carnal mind will make it spiritual, or compensate for the absence of spirituality. "Flesh" and "spirit" are essentially and unchangeably opposed; nor can the carnal mind, as such, be brought into real subjection to the law of God (Ro 8:5-7). Hence (5) the estrangement of God and the sinner is mutual. For as the sinner's state of mind is "enmity against God" (Ro 8:7), so in this state he "cannot please God" (Ro 8:8). (6) Since the Holy Ghost is, in the same breath, called indiscriminately "the Spirit of God," "the Spirit of Christ," and "Christ" Himself (as an indwelling life in believers), the essential unity and yet Personal distinctness of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, m the one adorable Godhead must be believed, as the only consistent explanation of such language (Ro 8:9-11). (7) The consciousness of spiritual life in our renewed souls is a glorious assurance of resurrection life in the body also, in virtue of the same quickening Spirit whose inhabitation we already enjoy (Ro 8:11). (8) Whatever professions of spiritual life men may make, it remains eternally true that "if we live after the flesh we shall die," and only "if we through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body we shall live" (Ro 8:13, and compare Ga 6:7, 8; Eph 5:6; Php 3:18, 19; 1Jo 3:7, 8).
Second: The Sonship of Believers—Their Future Inheritance—The Intercession of the Spirit for Them (Ro 8:14-27).
Matthew Poole's Commentary
If ye live after the flesh, ye shall die; viz. eternally, and never partake of the glorious resurrection before spoken of. The godly themselves need this caution; they must not think, that because they are elected and justified, &c., that therefore they may do and live as they list.
Through the Spirit; i.e. by the grace and assistance of the Spirit.
Mortify; i.e. kill and put to death. It is not enough to forbear the actings of sin, but we must kill and crucify it. Sin may be left upon many considerations, and yet not mortified.
Evil deeds are called
the deeds of the body, because the body is so instrumental in the doing thereof. There are some, that by body here do understand the corrupt nature, the same that before in many places he calls the flesh: this was called, Romans 8:6, the body of sin, and here it is called the body.
Ye shall live; viz. eternally. See a parallel place, Romans 6:22 Galatians 6:8: see Romans 8:6.
Geneva Study Bible
{15} For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
(15) Another reason for the profit that follows: for those who battle and fight valiantly will have everlasting life.
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Why state such facts?
You must be intellectually honest...you must surely know that the above is a non realistic scenario since NO ONE HERE has ever said we are saved by works.
Is it so difficult to understand the diffference?
We are saved by grace through faith.
BUT, we are still required to obey God.
The thief on the cross also didn't have a chance to do any good works...so would YOU say he didn't go to paradise that day?
Please let's stop saying what you say above and have a serious conversation.
God ALWAYS demanded obedience:
Deuteronomy 11:1
1 Love the LORD your God and keep his requirements, his decrees, his laws and his commands always.
Romans 1:5
5 Through him we received grace and apostleship to call all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith for his name’s sake.
Romans 2:6-8
6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.
Revelation 14:12
12 This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus.
As you can see, from the beginning of the bible to the end of the bible we are exhorted to obey God.
So why belittle this by posting ideas that are not biblical?
If I get saved today and have no opportunity to do what God would want me to, is he an unjust God to condemn me?
Is God unjust?
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Who said they are??????
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Hi Dirtfarmer,
The quote above shows that it is necessary for us to do works. AFTER we're saved.
Finally, two things should be pointed out. According to Romans 8:8 and Hebrews 11:6, it is impossible for unbelievers to do anything that fundamentally meets with God's approval or that will receive a reward from God, no matter how impressive their deeds may be. However, once one is a believer, even as small a service as a cup of cold water given in the Lord's name ( Mark 9:41 ) will not go without divine notice and reward. Second, even the rewards earned are totally a result of God's grace since all successful labor for Christ is accomplished by Christ working in and through us. In Romans 15:18, Paul says he will not dare to speak of any accomplishment except those Christ has done through him.
Wesley L. Gerig
source: https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/bakers-evangelical-dictionary/reward.html
No one can deny that there will be rewards in heaven. Although 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 is a controversial passage, many believe it to mean what you've stated. Some believe it's speaking about purgatory (the Catholic Church) and some believe it refers only to teachers, but for our discussion this is not important.
We should accept the fact, however, that Jesus teachings are not for rewards, even though He mentioned this in Mathew 5:12. Jesus teachings for for entry into God's Kingdom and the same could be said for Paul. Jesus spoke of God's Kingdom many times, for example Mathew 13, and only a couple of times about rewards.
I think that in all honesy, it would behoove us to say that God requires us to follow the commandments He has left with us. It's of no value to discourage new Christians and older Christians to believe that our salvation is not at issue when we do not live according to God's rules.
Romans 1:5
5 Through him we received grace and apostleship to call all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith for his name’s sake.
This is obedience of faith. We obey because we have faith.
Faith is action, faith is a doing -- a doing of God's commands and laws.
chessman
Member
I asked: “What makes you think he’s talking about condemnation versus what he said “you will die”?”
So are you belive “you will die” really means ‘you will be condemned to eternal death’ because of commentaries.
Okay thanks for your answer.
With respect to the MH commentary on the passage, I already said what I thought. He recognized the passage was talking about the death of the body, not the condemnation of the soul (as do I). So I asked you if you agreed with his statement, then asked you to answer clarifying questions. Please answer them:
WRT Ellicott’s, he too recognizes Paul is talking about the death of the body (the flesh the material nature) not condemnation as you claimed. He (like Henry) recognizes the vitality of the soul, however:
Ellicott also says:
So I must ask again, based on Ellicott’s commentary:
Do you believe the body of a brother in Christ endures forever, whether he sins a little or a lot?
So are you belive “you will die” really means ‘you will be condemned to eternal death’ because of commentaries.
Okay thanks for your answer.
It’s not a guess. It’s directly stated in the passage (four times). Let me highlight it for you:
So then, brothers, we are debtors— not to the flesh, that we should be living in accordance with the flesh. For if you are living in accordance with the flesh, you are going-to die. But if by the Spirit you are putting-to-death the practices of the body, you will live.
Romans 8:12-13 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Romans 8:12-13&version=DLNTWith respect to the MH commentary on the passage, I already said what I thought. He recognized the passage was talking about the death of the body, not the condemnation of the soul (as do I). So I asked you if you agreed with his statement, then asked you to answer clarifying questions. Please answer them:
WRT Ellicott’s, he too recognizes Paul is talking about the death of the body (the flesh the material nature) not condemnation as you claimed. He (like Henry) recognizes the vitality of the soul, however:
Ellicott also says:
11) And this vitality extends beyond the grave. It will even react upon that material body which had just been spoken of as given over to death. Die it must; but the same Spirit to which the soul owes its life will also reinfuse life into the dead body, just as the body of Christ of Himself was raised from the dead.
So I must ask again, based on Ellicott’s commentary:
Do you believe the body of a brother in Christ endures forever, whether he sins a little or a lot?
dirtfarmer
Member
hello wondering, dirtfarmer here
I disagree that 1 Corinthians 3:13-15 shows that it is necessary for Christians to do works after we are saved. Successful labor for Christ is accomplished by Christ working in and through us. Paul states in Romans 15:18, " For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed.
Salvation and eternal life are the same for all believers, but rewards vary upon faithful labor.
Baker also says that wrong motives will prevent rewards but not salvation. We are told to do all for God's glory and not our's.
The only commandment given to the believer is to live by faith. When we live by faith it is Christ that lives his life through us and he has already fulfilled all the law.
I have said this before; I have hope to reign and rule with Christ over His kingdom. In Matthew the disciples were instructed not to go into the cities of Samaria or to the Gentiles but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. I am not hoping to enter the kingdom that is mentioned in Matthew.
In Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John Christ had not been crucified. When He made his triumphal entry into Jerusalem he was offering the kingdom that was promised; a kingdom of priest to preach to all nations, not to individuals. It is my belief that we do Christ's crucifixion an injustice when we try to apply what he Said to the Nation of Israel in Matthew, Mark, and Luke, to the "Church" his body.
I absolutely and 100% agree with this. But what does "faith" mean? And I don't believe most/majority of believers understand what 'faith' means. Most are stuck on salvation and think faith means what they are doing to obey/follow/fruits/works and striving to keep believing in the Gospel.
When faith, after salvation means knowing His mind/doctrines. Most are stuck on salvation and think faith is all about "keep believing on him for salvation!"
After salvation we need to grow in His grace and Knowledge>>>>>>>>our faith.
So, yes we are to live by faith, but that means His doctrines/His mind.
After we are saved our faith includes:
Do not quench the Spirit.
Do not grieve the Spirit.
Be filled with the Spirit.
And walk in the Spirit.
And Name and site our sins to God. 1 John 1:9.
Most are stuck on salvation and the babe in Christ faith.......and never grow in His grace and Knowledge to live a eternally secure, divine good producing Christian.
dirtfarmer
Member
hello gr8grace3, dirtfarmer here
To live by faith means that we have ceased from working for salvation and it is Christ that works through us.
1 John 3:19-21, And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him. For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then we have confidence toward God.
Colossians 2:20-23, " Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world , are ye subject to ordinances. ( Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of man? Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honor to the satisfying of the flesh."
How many churches are filled with doctrine of "don't touch, don't eat, and don't do that's". If we are living by faith there are things that will not be present in our life, not because they are taboo, but because those things are not part of "the more excellent way".
Rajesh Sahu
2024 Supporter
What about "saved" Christians who are living in sin-- cheating, adultery, stealing and stuff like that----- Why Is Christ NOT working through them even though they have faith in Jesus as savior? How do you explain that?
Rajesh Sahu
2024 Supporter
I cannot believe you think Paul is talking about BODY and not condemnation when it's clear he is. Romans 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
This also begs the question-- WHO AM I? the BODY or the SOUL that lives in it?
In his famous classic work, The Mortification of Sin the famous Puritan John Owen shows the need for Christians to engage in a life-long battle against the sinful tendencies that remain in them, despite their having been brought to faith and new life in Christ.
John Owen masterfully expounds the wonderful verse:
Romans 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
In other words, he says"be killing sin or it will be killing you".
Owen shows that because of the Spirit, you are armed to the teeth in everything to take down sin. You have the sniper rifle with the night scope. But the rifle, the bullet, the gauge, the metals, the night scope, the "talent", the stillness are all by the Spirit alone. You have got to pull that trigger. Yet, if we are completely honest with ourselves, we don't want to pull that trigger.
This begs the question WHY did Owen exhort Christians to engage in a life-long battle against the sinful tendencies that remain in them, despite their having been brought to faith and new life in Christ. Why is then the need for so much struggle when we ALL are SAVE according to easy be;livism/ cheap grace doctrine. We should take it easy and let things happen.. sin as well. Therefore even after accepting Christ as savior a believer can continue to live in all sorts of greed and carnal sins apart from sin of worshipping idols and do deep evil deeds and yet cannot be condemned according to the easy believism doctrine. Do you see the great danger in such a heretical doctrine----- SAVED BY FAITH ALONE ( no obedience needed or required)
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chessman
Member
So you believe it’s a life-long battle against the sins of the flesh. When do you believe the battle is won?
I will highlight some of the reasons again so that you can believe it:
Rajesh Sahu
2024 Supporter
Tell me Chessman who did Paul mean when he said "For if YOU ----the SOUL--- live according to the flesh(BODY), you ( the Soul) will die but if by the Spirit you ( soul) put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Didn't you get the message of Paul in 7:25
""......on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.
Isn't Paul making clear distinction between he himself and the BODY ( flesh ) which is utterly sinful. And yet brother Chessman you say Paul meant BODY ---+the sinful one --- will live if we put to death the deeds of the body! [edited]
About yr other question WHEN the battle against sinful flesh is won, unfortunately it's NOT in this life but after judgment day when Jesus let's us know in Revelation 2: 23 "Then all the churches will know that I ( JESUS) am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your DEEDS.
we will have to wait for judgment to occur and after Jesus has examined n scrutinized every deed we have done , we will know the END result ;)
The short answer is you have won only if you're accepted in heaven . And that will happen only after we are Judged first
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Maria E Abreu
Member
I will have to disagree with you, since the word "anyone" refers to anyone, as you agreed in a previous post.
Here is the patient of the saints, refers to the saints that are alive on earth during this time, and anyone certainly includes them.
9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
13 Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’”
“Yes,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them.” Revelation 14:9-13
If you believe Him, then you must believe it is those Christians who believe continually to the end during tribulation or life threatening persecution, without rejecting Jesus Christ, that are saved, as is the context of Matthew 24:13
These who endure to the end choose to be martyred, rather than rejecting Jesus Christ, as is also the context of Revelation 14:9-13, which is why John writes, Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, as well as,
‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’”
9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Matthew 24:9-16
Sure it does, the context in which Jesus says this is clear. His saints are preaching the Gospel of the kingdom, and being martyred for it, without rejecting the Lord.
But he who endures to the end shall be saved, is referring to being faithful unto death, while serving the Lord, during the time of the end
9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Matthew 24:9-16
Win the battle?
Why would you connect "win the battle" with some Christians being deceived?
The antichrist will ultimately, be destroyed and lose, but that doesn't mean some of the elect won't end up being deceived, and betray one another, and hate one another and end up being deceived, whose love grows cold.
9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
Matthew 24:9-13
Yes born again Christians have Christ living in us.
Does that mean you are Jesus?
Does that mean you are sinless?
Does that mean a Christian can never lie, or steal or commit adultery.
We can be forgiven, if we sin, if we confess our sin, but that doesn't mean we are Jesus.
I just don't see your point?
Anyone means anyone who is alive during the time the antichrist is persecuting the Church, in the time frame and context of Revelation 14, which certainly includes the saints.
9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
13 Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’”
“Yes,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them.” Revelation 14:9-13
ME
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Maria E Abreu
Member
Yes I am saying there is a warning to "anyone" (anyone to who this pertains and is alive on earth during this time) not to take the mark of the beast, which includes the saints, who are alive during this time.
One angel announces the Gospel, with the command “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.”
Then another angel announces the warning, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God,
6 Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people— 7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.”8 And another angel followed, saying, “Babylon[f] is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.” 9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those[g] who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:6-12
ME
Maria E Abreu
Member
Why would Christ be defeated, if a Christian chooses to reject Him?
That doesn't make any sense to me.
Please show a chapter and verse in the bible that says Christ Himself is defeated is a Christian rejects Him.
ME
Maria E Abreu
Member
The faith we have comes from Jesus, it is a gift, and it is up to us, not to depart from that faith, and we are warned that in the last days some will do just that, depart from the faith, that we received from Jesus.
Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; 5 for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. 1 Timothy 4:1-5
You didn’t answer
No.
Why would the Holy Spirit, who is God, worship some other god?
That just doesn't make any sense.
Are you saying you are the Holy Spirit?
You know what I just realized, you didn't participate in the forum poll.
Can you answer the question from the poll?
Can a born again Christian reject Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and still be saved?
ME
dirtfarmer
Member
hello Rajesh Sahu, dirtfarmer here
Just because a person claims to be a "Christian" doesn't mean that they are. I could claim that I am a garage but it would be impossible to park a car in me. You could park a car on me though.
Romans 6:1-2, " What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid, How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
If a person makes the statement that God saved them but they continue to live as they were, were they really saved? Scripture states that we shall know a tree by it's fruit. A Christian may be overtaken in a fault, but a Christian doesn't continually live in sin.
The example that you gave, " cheating, adultery, stealing and stuff like that", has never been saved. Like the example that I gave, "they are calling themselves a garage", but they are not a garage. If there is no "new life" then it is the same old life and no regeneration has happened.
Papa Zoom
CF Ambassador
“If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.”
1 John 1:6-7 NASB
http://bible.com/100/1jn.1.6-7.nasb
The saved do not habitually walk in darkness