Futurism&TheTemple

[JLB]

A 'man of sin' automatically entails 'sin.'

Sin transpires ONLY in the temple of MAN.

Proven wrong? again, lol

It does appear that your 'two' brick and mortar temple fantasy from Daniel 9 is not available.


JLB, there are not two brick and mortar temple rebuildings in Daniel 9, period.

It is all non existing supposition on your part, not even there to be seen.

s

Which point of the scriptures are you in disagreement with?


Verse 26 describes events after the sixty-two weeks:

• Messiah shall be cut off - 33 AD
  
• the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.- 70 AD

The 70th week has not occurred in this verse or the time frame it encompasses!

27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."

Verse 27 describes events of the 70th week:

• "he" describes the last person mentioned - "the prince who is to come"
  
• Messiah had already come as of verse 26 and was cut off.
• "The prince who is to come" surfaces sometime after 70 AD
• "The prince who is to come" confirms a covenant for 7 years
• "The prince who is to come" puts an end to sacrifice and offering.

JLB

 

[smaller]

Sorry JLB, what you think you see there is factually NOT there.

Perhaps a re-write to this to suit your non-existing sight?:

"The man of sin has sin in his body temple which then sits in a brick and mortar temple"

But of course that is also nowhere to be seen is it?

Keep staring at it though. I'm sure you can see TWO brick and mortar temples rebuilt there in Daniel 9 just as plain as day.

If you actually find that fact, give a hollar.

s

 

[JLB]

Sorry JLB, what you think you see there is factually NOT there.

Perhaps a re-write to this to suit your non-existing sight?:

"The man of sin has sin in his body temple which then sits in a brick and mortar temple"

But of course that is also nowhere to be seen is it?

Keep staring at it though. I'm sure you can see TWO brick and mortar temples rebuilt there in Daniel 9 just as plain as day.

If you actually find that fact, give a hollar.

s

Which point of the scriptures are you in disagreement with?


Verse 26 describes events after the sixty-two weeks:

• Messiah shall be cut off - 33 AD
  
• the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.- 70 AD

The 70th week has not occurred in this verse or the time frame it encompasses!

27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."

Verse 27 describes events of the 70th week:

• "he" describes the last person mentioned - "the prince who is to come"
  
• Messiah had already come as of verse 26 and was cut off.
• "The prince who is to come" surfaces sometime after 70 AD
• "The prince who is to come" confirms a covenant for 7 years
• "The prince who is to come" puts an end to sacrifice and offering.

JLB

 

[smaller]

Perhaps if you keep repeating it two brick and mortar temples will show up in Daniel 9 as factual content.

enjoy!

s

 

[JLB]

;)

Perhaps if you keep repeating it two brick and mortar temples will show up in Daniel 9 as factual content.

enjoy!

s

I see you find it impossible to dispute the scriptures.
It's better for you to not answer or change the subject as has been your MO.

God bless you and keep you. JLB

 

[smaller]

You can only ask a person so many times to show TWO brick and mortar temple rebuildings from Daniel 9 and expect that fact, or rather the entire void of that fact to be either shown or fessed up to, that it is not there.

If you want to see things that aren't there that's your biz.

enjoy!

s

 

[JLB]

You can only ask a person so many times to show TWO brick and mortar temple rebuildings from Daniel 9 and expect that fact, or rather the entire void of that fact to be either shown or fessed up to, that it is not there.

If you want to see things that aren't there that's your biz.

enjoy!s

Which point of the scriptures are you in disagreement with?


Verse 26 describes events after the sixty-two weeks:

• Messiah shall be cut off - 33 AD
  
• the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.- 70 AD

The 70th week has not occurred in this verse or the time frame it encompasses!

27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."

Verse 27 describes events of the 70th week:

• "he" describes the last person mentioned - "the prince who is to come"
  
• Messiah had already come as of verse 26 and was cut off.
• "The prince who is to come" surfaces sometime after 70 AD
• "The prince who is to come" confirms a covenant for 7 years
• "The prince who is to come" puts an end to sacrifice and offering.

JLB

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by JLB,

Paul is clear, the temple is a man made temple in Jerusalem, as the scriptures so clearly teach.

JLB, what do the Scriptures say, over and over? "The Lord dwells not in temples made with hands!" They are but "shadowy figures of the true." "What temple will ye build me?" says the Lord. So wherever we see a reference to a temple of the present or the future, it must refer to "the true sanctuary, and the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man" (Hebrews 8:2).

There is only one such tabernacle, or temple. The Scripture nowhere tells of two, or three, or one away off somewhere in space where Jesus is ministering; or another in Jerusalem built by the Jews, and another spiritual one composed of living stones. There is but ONE temple, ONE High Priest, and ONE royal priesthood. The priests of old served "unto the example and shadow of heavenly (spiritual) things."

I cannot understand how anybody could have even a rudimentary understanding of the New Covenant, and the High-Priest ministry of Jesus Christ, and still believe that animal sacrifices will again be enacted upon the face of the earth. I know that some preachers of Babylon have said that animal sacrifices will be re-instituted in the land of Israel during the 'millennium,' but Calvary needs no old covenant commemoration, as the book of Hebrews makes plain:

Hebrews 10:1 "For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image (reality) of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect.
Hebrews 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins.
Hebrews 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder (commemoration) of sins every year."

Hebrews 10:5 "Therefore, WHEN HE CAME INTO THE WORLD, He said: 'Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, But a body You have prepared for Me.
Hebrews 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You had no pleasure."

Hebrews 10:15 But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before,
Hebrews 10:16 'This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,'
Hebrews 10:17 then He adds, 'Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.'
Hebrews 10:18 Now where there is remission of these, THERE IS NO LONGER AN OFFERING FOR SIN."

It was the continuation of the animal sacrifices in the old temple, which continued on for many years AFTER the ONE, TRUE SACRIFICE had been made, that brought about the desolation of the physical temple by the Romans in A.D. 70 - as foretold by Daniel, and later by Jesus:


Luke 13:35 "Behold, your house (Greek: oikos = Temple) is left unto you desolate."


God will never vacate this heavenly, spiritual temple to return to a temple made with hands! No temple of God, formed from bricks and stones will ever be rebuilt in Jerusalem. And if it is, it will only serve to take the minds of the masses of Christians off of the true temple of God and off of the true beast, the blasphemous "man of sin" who is sitting in the True temple of God, which is the hearts and minds of His people.

 

[JLB]

JLB, what do the Scriptures say, over and over? "The Lord dwells not in temples made with hands!" They are but "shadowy figures of the true." "What temple will ye build me?" says the Lord. So wherever we see a reference to a temple of the present or the future, it must refer to "the true sanctuary, and the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man" (Hebrews 8:2).

There is only one such tabernacle, or temple. The Scripture nowhere tells of two, or three, or one away off somewhere in space where Jesus is ministering; or another in Jerusalem built by the Jews, and another spiritual one composed of living stones. There is but ONE temple, ONE High Priest, and ONE royal priesthood. The priests of old served "unto the example and shadow of heavenly (spiritual) things."

I cannot understand how anybody could have even a rudimentary understanding of the New Covenant, and the High-Priest ministry of Jesus Christ, and still believe that animal sacrifices will again be enacted upon the face of the earth. I know that some preachers of Babylon have said that animal sacrifices will be re-instituted in the land of Israel during the 'millennium,' but Calvary needs no old covenant commemoration, as the book of Hebrews makes plain:

Hebrews 10:1 "For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image (reality) of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect.
Hebrews 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins.
Hebrews 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder (commemoration) of sins every year."

Hebrews 10:5 "Therefore, WHEN HE CAME INTO THE WORLD, He said: 'Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, But a body You have prepared for Me.
Hebrews 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You had no pleasure."

Hebrews 10:15 But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before,
Hebrews 10:16 'This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,'
Hebrews 10:17 then He adds, 'Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.'
Hebrews 10:18 Now where there is remission of these, THERE IS NO LONGER AN OFFERING FOR SIN."

It was the continuation of the animal sacrifices in the old temple, which continued on for many years AFTER the ONE, TRUE SACRIFICE had been made, that brought about the desolation of the physical temple by the Romans in A.D. 70 - as foretold by Daniel, and later by Jesus:


Luke 13:35 "Behold, your house (Greek: oikos = Temple) is left unto you desolate."


God will never vacate this heavenly, spiritual temple to return to a temple made with hands! No temple of God, formed from bricks and stones will ever be rebuilt in Jerusalem. And if it is, it will only serve to take the minds of the masses of Christians off of the true temple of God and off of the true beast, the blasphemous "man of sin" who is sitting in the True temple of God, which is the hearts and minds of His people.

Brother what does this scripture say!

This discussion is about Futurism & The Temple.

It has already been shown to you that God dwells in a temple!

Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them. Revelation 7:15

We also know from scripture that God ALSO dwells in born again believers!


In this post, I will ask you -

Which point of the scriptures are you in disagreement with?


Verse 26 describes events after the sixty-two weeks:

• Messiah shall be cut off - 33 AD
  
• the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.- 70 AD

The 70th week has not occurred in this verse or the time frame it encompasses!

27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."

Verse 27 describes events of the 70th week:

• "he" describes the last person mentioned - "the prince who is to come"
  
• Messiah had already come as of verse 26 and was cut off.
• "The prince who is to come" surfaces sometime after 70 AD
• "The prince who is to come" confirms a covenant for 7 years
• "The prince who is to come" puts an end to sacrifice and offering.

JLB

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by JLB,

The 70th week has not occurred in this verse or the time frame it encompasses!

Show me in the Scriptures where it says the 70th Week is separated from the 69 Weeks by a large gap of time........ or any "gap" of time. Where in Daniel 9 does it say the Final (70th) Week is disconnected from the previous 69 Weeks?

You believe it's here:

Daniel 9:26-27 "After the 'sixty-two weeks' the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing. . . . He will confirm a covenant with many for 'one week.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering."

Where does it say this "one week" is disconnected from the previous 69 Weeks (483 Years)? Where does it say there will be a gap of many years between the 69th and 70th Week? Show me from Scripture? You're assuming there is a gap, but Scripture says no such thing. It doesn't even HINT at such an idea.

How can one take the Jubilee Calendar from which the 70 weeks are determined and separate the 70th week from the 69th week by inserting an interval of time between the weeks and still call some future week the 70th week? Has this ever been done in the weekly cycle upon which the week of years is based? No. Do other prophetic time-periods follow this pattern? No. Do other prophetic time-periods operate under the Jubilee Calendar? Yes. So, how can one separate the 70th week from the previous 69 weeks? There is only one answer: By misunderstanding the principles that govern the Jubilee Calendar (49 year cycles).

Furthermore, 70 weeks in the Jubilee Calendar equals 490 years and 490 years amounts to a period of 10 Jubilee cycles. Thus, it is not possible to separate the 70th week from the earlier 69 weeks. The idea of a large gap of time between the 69th and 70th week represents a gap in logic, not a gap in time. The 70 Weeks are 70 consecutive Weeks (490 Years), the chronology of time cannot be broken.

Four decrees were issued for the restoration of Jerusalem. Cyrus gave the First decree in the Friday year of 536 B.C. (Ezra 1) Darius gave the Second decree in the Monday year of 519 B.C. (Ezra 6). Artaxerxes gave the Third decree in the Sunday Year of 457 B.C. (Ezra 7), and Artaxerxes gave the Fourth decree in the Sabbath year of 444 B.C. (Nehemiah 2).

God used "weeks" instead of "years" to indicate the synchrony for this all important decree with His weekly cycle of years established at the Exodus. In verse 25, Gabriel adds another specification that identifies which of the four decrees God will use to count off the seventy weeks: "From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven 'weeks' and sixty-two 'weeks. . . .'"

With these words (above), Gabriel points to the public ministry of Messiah.



457 B.C. aligns with the weekly cycle of years that began operating at the Exodus in 1437 B.C. Second, 457 B.C. aligns with the 49 year Jubilee cycles that began operating at the Exodus. Third, Messiah appeared 69 weeks (483 Years) after 457 B.C., in A.D. 27, to be baptized by John the Baptist. Fourth, 457 B.C. was affirmed by the wise men shortly after Jesus was born. Fifth, 457 B.C. decree is the one indicated in Daniel 9, is the timing of Jesus' death. Basically, Jesus began His ministry on time and He died on time. The death of Jesus not only confirms the synchrony of the Jubilee Calendar, it also confirms the decree of Artaxerxes in 457 B.C. to be the right decree. Paul was aware of this phenomenon: "But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law . . . You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly." (Galatians 4:4; Romans 5:6)


Gabriel said, "After the 'sixty-two weeks' the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing. . . . He will confirm a covenant with many for 'one week.' In the middle of the [last] 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering." (Daniel 9:26,27). A.D. 30 is located in the MIDDLE of the 70th Week of Years (A.D. 27 - A.D. 33). There should be no doubt in any mind that Jesus put an end to animal sacrifices and ceremonial offerings when He died on the cross. (Colossians 2) Yet, very few Christians realize that Daniel predicted Jesus' death and Jesus fulfilled Daniel's prophecy when he died in the MIDDLE OF THE 70th WEEK!

You are simply making things up, assuming they are found in the Bible, but they are not. Arbitrarily grabbing the 70th Week, disconnecting it from the previous 69 Weeks, and then hurling it 2,000 years into the future is pure fiction. There is nothing in the Bible that comes remotely close to implying such an idea. If you disagree, show me in the Scripture this "gap of time" you assume is written in Scripture.

Originally posted by JLB,

Jesus was crucified in 33 Ad.

Very close proximity on the time charts?

I can show from astronomical data (New Moon conjunctions, as it relates to Passover) that April 7, A.D. 30 was the year of the Crucifixion. Look here:

http://www.usno.navy.mil/USNO/astro...es/spring-phenom/?searchterm=spring phenomena

However, it would't be relevant to this discussion. The "block" of 490 Years (70 Weeks) cannot be broken up regardless of when this time period began and ended. Whether the 490 Years began in 457 B.C. and ended in 30 A.D. - or whether the 490 Years began in 454 B.C. and ended in 33 A.D. - it wouldn't make a difference. the "block" of time, the 10 Jubilee Cycles - the 490 Years - whether it is shifted 3 years forward or backward in time - cannot be broken. The fact that you believe this "3 Year" differential is even relevant proves you have no understanding whatsoever when it comes to the 70 Weeks prophecy. You are simply regurgitating bits and pieces of Scofield's theory. I probably know Scofield's theory far better than you do, so there is no need to post segments of it that you don't even understand.

 

[JLB]

Show me in the Scriptures where it says the 70th Week is separated from the 69 Weeks by a large gap of time........ or any "gap" of time. Where in Daniel 9 does it say the Final (70th) Week is disconnected from the previous 69 Weeks?

I can show from astronomical data (New Moon conjunctions, as it relates to Passover) that April 7, A.D. 30 was the year of the Crucifixion. Look here:

http://www.usno.navy.mil/USNO/astro...es/spring-phenom/?searchterm=spring phenomena

You can show all these website links and astronomical data and all these scientific findings..... But when the scripture in this discussion is laid out in front of you and you are asked Which point of the scriptures are you in disagreement with?

You start in with your circus show of look over here and look over there and I can show you this and that and you are wrong, blah blah blah blah blah!

Let's discuss the scripture of Daniel 9:24 -27, verse by verse and see if there are any points we can agree on first.

"Know therefore and understand, That from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;

• The first 69 weeks are separated into two sections 7 weeks and sixty two weeks!

• The first 69 weeks encompass the span from the going forth of the command until Messiah the Prince!

The work commenced when the decree was issued by Cyrus, who was The king of the World Governing Body, at the time.


1 Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the Lord stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, so that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and also put it in writing, saying, 2 Thus says Cyrus king of Persia: All the kingdoms of the earth the Lord God of heaven has given me. And He has commanded me to build Him a house at Jerusalem which is in Judah. 3 Who is among you of all His people? May his God be with him, and let him go up to Jerusalem which is in Judah, and build the house of the Lord God of Israel (He is God), which is in Jerusalem. Ezra 1:1-3


However the work paused by proclamation of the king of the World Governing Body at the time -


23 Now when the copy of King Artaxerxes' letter was read before Rehum, Shimshai the scribe, and their companions, they went up in haste to Jerusalem against the Jews, and by force of arms made them cease. 24 Thus the work of the house of God which is at Jerusalem ceased, and it was discontinued until the second year of the reign of Darius king of Persia. Ezra 4:23-24

This accounts for the first "pause" in the prophetic time frame, which is why the scripture has the first 69 weeks separated into two sections of time 7 weeks and 62 weeks.


JLB

 

[smaller]

Brother what does this scripture say!

This discussion is about Futurism & The Temple.


We also know from scripture that God ALSO dwells in born again believers!

Yeah, well you may be 'getting the picture' on temples.

s

 

[Yodas_Prodigy]

Should the predictions of yet another temple be correct it should not be too much to ask wrt the WHY... What reason would God have in restoring the temple?

That third temple could be the body of believers. We are called the Temple of the Holy Spirit. The NT mentions a temple about 9 times. 6 are the temple that was destroyed in 70 ad. I believe the others are the Church, the people of YHWH.

 

[Sinthesis]

That third temple could be the body of believers. We are called the Temple of the Holy Spirit. The NT mentions a temple about 9 times. 6 are the temple that was destroyed in 70 ad. I believe the others are the Church, the people of YHWH.

Hitch is probably questioning the reason God would have in establishing a third brick and mortar temple.

 

[Eventide]

Great site.. thanks for sharing..

 

[JLB]

Great site.. thanks for sharing..

Here is a snap shot of the time frame.

17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations, from David until the captivity in Babylon are fourteen generations, and from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen generations. Matthew 1:17


Babylonian Captivity to Christ = 14 generations = 560 years

Time of Captivity = 70 years

560 -70 = 490 years

Gap between 7 weeks and 62 weeks = 40 years = 1 Generation

33 = Birth to “Palm Sundayâ€

490 - 40 = 450 years + 33 years “Birth†to Messiah the Prince 483 years = 69 weeks [Messiah the Prince; Hosanna to the son of David]


The gap between the 7 weeks and 62 weeks came because the work ceased by order of the "ruler" of the World Governing Empire, the one with the authority to cause the "prophetic clock" to start and to stop and to start again.

It will be such a "ruler" in the last days to cause the prophetic clock to begin again when he "confirms" a covenant that will allow the children of Israel to build the last temple.

Cyrus gave the "command" to "restore and build Jerusalem".

23 Now when the copy of King Artaxerxes' letter was read before Rehum, Shimshai the scribe, and their companions, they went up in haste to Jerusalem against the Jews, and by force of arms made them cease. 24 Thus the work of the house of God which is at Jerusalem ceased, and it was discontinued until the second year of the reign of Darius king of Persia.


JLB

 

[reba]

Asking again why are the 70 years of captivity subtracted... They happened

 

[reba]

2Ki 24:12 And Jehoiachin the king of Judah went out to the king of Babylon, he, and his mother, and his servants, and his princes, and his officers: and the king of Babylon took him in the eighth year of his reign.
The 8th year of Neb. would have been about 597.

 

[Eventide]

There can be no doubt that there is going to be a Temple in which the man of sin SITS and proclaims to be God.. He is going to be WORSHIPED.. and He is going to have DOMINION over the entire earth for 42 months..

Revelation 11 affirms that there is going to be a Temple.. and its correct BIBLICAL CONTEXT is the things which shall be hereafter... and if ANYONE would like to refute this... THEN PLEASE explain the two witnesses and their testimony.. their death and their resurrection after three days..

Please EXPLAIN IN DETAIL WHEN THAT took place in the past.. or how it's happening now in the present.

 

[Eventide]

If I have told you earthly things and ye believe not...

IMO it's practically impossible (if not completely impossible) to understand the time of the end without 'seeing' or understanding the distinction between the earthly entity known as ISRAEL.. and the heavenly entity known in the scriptures as the CHURCH.

Notice that the church is nowhere to be seen in the CONTEXT of Revelation 11.. and yet there is seemingly endless Christian commentary that these things apply to the church, right here and right now..

THAT is simply taking the word of God from its own context and placing it within the context of the things which are.. ie, this present time..

That's why it simply doesn't work.. and let's be blunt here.. it's NOT that difficult to SEE this.. imo it's more aligned with people refusing to see it.. because then they would have to admit that they're wrong in their present beliefs..

IMO that's crazy.. but it's probably true in at least some instances.. religious pride is the most stubborn pride of all imo because people can't admit that they're wrong or that they have been led to believe something that is not true.