How the Law and the Commandments Promotes Sin

[jaybo]

>>>My respond supported by GOD and Jesus words only.
Your respond:" But Paul said the opposite."
I'll stick with GOD and Jesus only.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
His commandments, not someone else. Very clear.

I have news for you. Neither God nor Jesus wrote the Bible. The writers were inspired by God and Jesus is quoted. The only exception is God's finger writing the ten commandments. Paul's writings are a significant portion of Scripture and are inspired by God.

About John 14:15... In context it says "“If you love me, you will keep my commandments. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, to be with you forever. This is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him because he abides with you, and he will be in you." This was said to the Jews before the Holy Spirit was given; the written commandments have been replaced by the Holy Spirit.

Jesus said a few verses later, "But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything and remind you of all that I have said to you."

Romans 7:4-6, "In the same way, my brothers and sisters, you have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead in order that we may bear fruit for God. For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. But now we are discharged from the law, dead to that which held us captive, so that we are enslaved in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the written code.

What is it about this that you don't understand?

 

[Robert Pate]

I have news for you. Neither God nor Jesus wrote the Bible. The writers were inspired by God and Jesus is quoted. The only exception is God's finger writing the ten commandments. Paul's writings are a significant portion of Scripture and are inspired by God.

About John 14:15... In context it says "“If you love me, you will keep my commandments. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, to be with you forever. This is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him because he abides with you, and he will be in you." This was said to the Jews before the Holy Spirit was given; the written commandments have been replaced by the Holy Spirit.

Jesus said a few verses later, "But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything and remind you of all that I have said to you."

Romans 7:4-6, "In the same way, my brothers and sisters, you have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead in order that we may bear fruit for God. For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. But now we are discharged from the law, dead to that which held us captive, so that we are enslaved in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the written code.

What is it about this that you don't understand?

Plain simple truth from God's word. Many will not understand it because they have been blinded by their religion.

 

[Tempo]

If you believe that Christ's chosen apostle Paul is a heretic, then you are in serious trouble.

>>>Only Satan disobey GODs commandments and encourage others to do so, like the case of Adam and his wife, when they listen to Satan and ignored his commandments.
GOD made man and give this man rules and regulations how to be happy and live in peace, some of his creations chose to disobey and ignore HIM, like Satan did.
1John 2:3 _6 We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, love for God[a] is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.

 

[jaybo]

If you believe that Christ's chosen apostle Paul is a heretic, then you are in serious trouble.

When Jesus died on the cross God instituted the New Covenant and abolished the Old Covenant. Under the New Covenant God's people no longer live by laws, rules or religion. This is why Paul wrote, "The just shall live by faith" Romans 1:17. They live by faith in Christ and his Gospel. In the Gospel Jesus has ALREADY reconciled us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19. In the Gospel we are ALREADY complete in him, Colossians 2:10. The law has ALREADY been fulfilled. All sin has ALREADY been atoned for, so that now, "Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

Great post!

 

[Robert Pate]

Great post!

Thank you jaybo. I like what you post also.

 

[Tempo]

Great post!

>>>

Matthew 5:19

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

For thousands of years, GOD, his prophets and his son kept on obeying the Law, then from nowhere someone show up (he was his own witness), claiming God told him to abolish the law and everyone believe him!!

Jesus spent all his life on earth teaching others how to obey the law. Then he came back few years later and said: no more laws, I change my mind, I was wrong?
If Jesus aware of the changing of law, then he supposed to tell others: Obey the law for now, and when I got crucified don't obey any more, because the law will be nailed on the cross with me." Did he say that? NO,

Revelation 22:14

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Opps, it doesn't sound like the commandments of GOD "nailed" to the cross very well.
​

​

 

[jaybo]

>>>

Matthew 5:19​

​

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.​

​

For thousands of years, GOD, his prophets and his son kept on obeying the Law, then from nowhere someone show up (he was his own witness), claiming God told him to abolish the law and everyone believe him!!​

​

Jesus spent all his life on earth teaching others how to obey the law. Then he came back few years later and said: no more laws, I change my mind, I was wrong?​

If Jesus aware of the changing of law, then he supposed to tell others: Obey the law for now, and when I got crucified don't obey any more, because the law will be nailed on the cross with me." Did he say that? NO,​

​

​

Revelation 22:14​

​

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life and may enter in through the gates into the city.​

​

Opps, it doesn't sound like the commandments of GOD "nailed" to the cross very well.​

​

​

Why don't you consider to whom Jesus was speaking? He was talking to Jews who were living under the Old Covenant. They had to fully obey the law, which is/was impossible. The only solution? Jesus had to die for our sins so that the full penalty of the law was paid. The result? Those who accept the price paid for their sins are not guilty and are 100% free from the law.

It is very sad that you don't realize the above, and that you continue to keep the law, which is impossible. BTW, how are your animal sacrifices going?

 

[Robert Pate]

>>>

Matthew 5:19​

​

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.​

​

For thousands of years, GOD, his prophets and his son kept on obeying the Law, then from nowhere someone show up (he was his own witness), claiming God told him to abolish the law and everyone believe him!!​

​

Jesus spent all his life on earth teaching others how to obey the law. Then he came back few years later and said: no more laws, I change my mind, I was wrong?​

If Jesus aware of the changing of law, then he supposed to tell others: Obey the law for now, and when I got crucified don't obey any more, because the law will be nailed on the cross with me." Did he say that? NO,​

​

​

Revelation 22:14​

​

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life and may enter in through the gates into the city.​

​

Opps, it doesn't sound like the commandments of GOD "nailed" to the cross very well.​

​

​

You must believe that Christ's chosen apostle Paul is a heretic.

Law keeping didn't work for the Pharisees and it is not going to work for you. It appears to me that all of the Pharisees went to hell. See Matthew the 23rd chapter.

 

[justbyfaith]

So, how does this fit in?

Rom 8:7 (nlt), For the sinful nature is always hostile to God. It never did obey God’s laws, and it never will.

Matthew 7:23 w/ Romans 4:15 (death to self = freedom from the law)

Jesus speaking (NLT), Mat 7:21, “Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. Mat 7:22, On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in...

christianforums.net

 

[Robert Pate]

So, how does this fit in?

Rom 8:7 (nlt), For the sinful nature is always hostile to God. It never did obey God’s laws, and it never will.

Matthew 7:23 w/ Romans 4:15 (death to self = freedom from the law)

Jesus speaking (NLT), Mat 7:21, “Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. Mat 7:22, On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in...

christianforums.net

That fits in just fine.

Man is born a sinner and dies a sinner. This is why law and religion save no one.

 

[Tempo]

You must believe that Christ's chosen apostle Paul is a heretic.

Law keeping didn't work for the Pharisees and it is not going to work for you. It appears to me that all of the Pharisees went to hell. See Matthew the 23rd chapter.

>>>Nowhere at any time, where Jesus ever say about someone will be add to the twelve apostles he chose. To the end he kept mention the twelve as the ones who will judge the world.
Where is the thirteen comes from?

Pharisees were hypocrites who pick and choose like so many of these days Christians.
Jesus never attacks or disobey the commandments, but the opposite of that. But Pharisees used the law to their own benefit..
For example, GOD deny if HE ever commands the animal sacrifices (Jeremaiah 7:22).
Almost all the prophets and Jesus criticize the Pharisees of doing so.
And before you tell us, GOD command sacrifices, let me ask:
If sacrifices were GODs command, do you think the prophets will disobey HIM?

 

[jaybo]

>>>Nowhere at any time, where Jesus ever say about someone will be add to the twelve apostles he chose. To the end he kept mention the twelve as the ones who will judge the world.
Where is the thirteen comes from?

Pharisees were hypocrites who pick and choose like so many of these days Christians.
Jesus never attacks or disobey the commandments, but the opposite of that. But Pharisees used the law to their own benefit..
For example, GOD deny if HE ever commands the animal sacrifices (Jeremaiah 7:22).
Almost all the prophets and Jesus criticize the Pharisees of doing so.
And before you tell us, GOD command sacrifices, let me ask:
If sacrifices were GODs command, do you think the prophets will disobey HIM?

1 Corinthians 5:7-9, "Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born. For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God."

Jesus appeared to Paul and chose him personally to be an apostle.

"Pharisees were hypocrites who pick and choose like so many of these days Christians", excluding yourself, of course! LOL!

The rest of your post makes no sense. Of course God commanded sacrifices, first of animals and birds, then of His own Son. The word "sacrifice" appears 303 times in the Old Testament alone.

Here are some OT selections from Exodus alone...

"We must take a three-day journey into the wilderness to offer sacrifices to the Lord our God, as he commands us.” Exodus 8:27

"When Pharaoh stubbornly refused to let us go, the Lord killed the firstborn of both people and animals in Egypt. This is why I sacrifice to the Lord the first male offspring of every womb and redeem each of my firstborn sons.’" Exodus 13:15

"Make an altar of earth for me and sacrifice on it your burnt offerings and fellowship offerings, your sheep and goats and your cattle. Wherever I cause my name to be honored, I will come to you and bless you." Exodus 20:24

“Do for Aaron and his sons everything I have commanded you, taking seven days to ordain them. Sacrifice a bull each day as a sin offering to make atonement. Purify the altar by making atonement for it, and anoint it to consecrate it. For seven days make atonement for the altar and consecrate it. Then the altar will be most holy, and whatever touches it will be holy." Exodus 29:35-37

“Do for Aaron and his sons everything I have commanded you, taking seven days to ordain them. Sacrifice a bull each day as a sin offering to make atonement. Purify the altar by making atonement for it, and anoint it to consecrate it. For seven days make atonement for the altar and consecrate it. Then the altar will be most holy, and whatever touches it will be holy." Exodus 29:41

There are many more instances, of course, but these should be sufficient to prove that God required sacrifices.

 

[Tempo]

That fits in just fine.

Man is born a sinner and dies a sinner. This is why law and religion save no one.

>>> Man become sinner not born a sinner.
Little babies born knowing nothing about sin, until you teach them so, and your sin been taught by obeying Satan and ignore God.
How many times GOD told us everyone will be judge according to his own deeds? Original sin doctrine very stupid.
2 Sam. 22
21 “The Lord has dealt with me according to my righteousness.
according to the cleanness of my hands he has rewarded me.
22 For I have kept the ways of the Lord;
I am not guilty of turning from my God.
23 All his laws are before me;
I have not turned away from his decrees.
24 I have been blameless before him
and have kept myself from sin.
25 The Lord has rewarded me according to my righteousness,
according to my cleanness[f] in his sight.

Before you tell me about Davids's sin, I must tell you, when you are sincerely REPENT, is more than enough to your GOD. no blood or sacrifices needed.

 

[Tempo]

esus appeared to Paul and chose him personally to be an apostle.

>>>Said who, Paul?
Jesus said: Don't believe anyone tells you, I appeared to him (Matt. 24:26)
And I believe JESUS only.

Do you believe Joseph Smith? why not?
God the father and Jesus appeared to him, not only Jesus like the case of Paul
You know what, Smith had his four cousins as witness, Paul, none.
Every day, Mary the mother of god appear to millions throughout the world, do you believe them?
Check YouTube, about hundreds of people who Jesus appeared to them, and they saw him face to face. Of course, you believe none of them.

 

[jaybo]

>>>Said who, Paul?
Jesus said: Don't believe anyone tells you, I appeared to him (Matt. 24:26)
And I believe JESUS only.

Do you believe Joseph Smith? why not?
God the father and Jesus appeared to him, not only Jesus like the case of Paul
You know what, Smith had his four cousins as witness, Paul, none.
Every day, Mary the mother of god appear to millions throughout the world, do you believe them?
Check YouTube, about hundreds of people who Jesus appeared to them, and they saw him face to face. Of course, you believe none of them.

Oh, YouTube! O wonder you are so confused!

Personally, I believe God, not what you or others say.

Paul who wrote more of the New Testament than anyone else, said that Jesus appeared to him personally. That has been accepted for roughly two thousand years by many, many people. Why should I believe you?

I won't even comment on Joseph Smith's claim or Mary's supposed appearances, as neither one has any Biblical basis.

 

[Tempo]

Here are some OT selections from Exodus alone...

>>>You miss the meaning of sacrifice. (Not because my English better)
Sacrifice: means "Korban" which means "drawing near" or when you committed "unintentional sin".
Lying, cheating, killing, stealing, disobey your parents, work on the Sabbath......, have no sacrifice.
The Egyptians worship animals as their god, the Jews living in the Egyptians land copy their custom and become a custom to them too.
that's why God deny ever telling them about sacrifices (Jeremiah7:22)
Psalm 51:16
For You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; You take no pleasure in burnt offerings.
1 Samuel 15:22
But Samuel declared: "Does the LORD delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as much as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, obedience is better than sacrifice, and attentiveness is better than the fat of rams.
Isaiah 1:11
"What is your multitude of sacrifices to Me?" says the LORD. "I am full from the burnt offerings of rams and the fat of well-fed cattle; I take no delight in the blood of bulls, of lambs and goats.
Isaiah 66:3
Whoever slaughters an ox is like one who slays a man; whoever sacrifices a lamb is like one who breaks a dog's neck; whoever presents a grain offering is like one who offers pig's blood; whoever offers incense is like one who praises an idol. Indeed, they have chosen their own ways and delighted in their abominations.
Jeremiah 7:21-23
This is what the LORD of Hosts, the God of Israel, says: 'Add your burnt offerings to your other sacrifices and eat the meat yourselves! . . .
Hosea 6:6
For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings.
Matthew 9:13
But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
Matthew 12:7
If only you had known the meaning of 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice, ' you would not have condemned the innocent.

Do you need more of how GOD unsatisfied with blood sacrifice, only because HE never command. The Jewish leaders and scribes add all kind of things to the law to control and benefits. Thats why GOD sent Jesus, and that's why they hate him.

 

[Robert Pate]

>>>Nowhere at any time, where Jesus ever say about someone will be add to the twelve apostles he chose. To the end he kept mention the twelve as the ones who will judge the world.
Where is the thirteen comes from?

Pharisees were hypocrites who pick and choose like so many of these days Christians.
Jesus never attacks or disobey the commandments, but the opposite of that. But Pharisees used the law to their own benefit..
For example, GOD deny if HE ever commands the animal sacrifices (Jeremaiah 7:22).
Almost all the prophets and Jesus criticize the Pharisees of doing so.
And before you tell us, GOD command sacrifices, let me ask:
If sacrifices were GODs command, do you think the prophets will disobey HIM?

So, you don't believe that Paul was a valid apostle and was a fraud.

To deny Paul's epistles is to deny the Gospel and justification by faith. The Pharisees were hypocrites because they could not obey the law, Matthew 23:3. No one can obey the Law except for Jesus Christ, he obeyed it perfectly. Having fulfilled the law he then abolished it, Romans 10:4. Living by laws, rules and religion means that you are under the curse, Galatians 3:10.

 

[jaybo]

>>>You miss the meaning of sacrifice. (Not because my English better)
Sacrifice: means "Korban" which means "drawing near" or when you committed "unintentional sin".
Lying, cheating, killing, stealing, disobey your parents, work on the Sabbath......, have no sacrifice.
The Egyptians worship animals as their god, the Jews living in the Egyptians land copy their custom and become a custom to them too.
that's why God deny ever telling them about sacrifices (Jeremiah7:22)
Psalm 51:16
For You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; You take no pleasure in burnt offerings.
1 Samuel 15:22
But Samuel declared: "Does the LORD delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as much as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, obedience is better than sacrifice, and attentiveness is better than the fat of rams.
Isaiah 1:11
"What is your multitude of sacrifices to Me?" says the LORD. "I am full from the burnt offerings of rams and the fat of well-fed cattle; I take no delight in the blood of bulls, of lambs and goats.
Isaiah 66:3
Whoever slaughters an ox is like one who slays a man; whoever sacrifices a lamb is like one who breaks a dog's neck; whoever presents a grain offering is like one who offers pig's blood; whoever offers incense is like one who praises an idol. Indeed, they have chosen their own ways and delighted in their abominations.
Jeremiah 7:21-23
This is what the LORD of Hosts, the God of Israel, says: 'Add your burnt offerings to your other sacrifices and eat the meat yourselves! . . .
Hosea 6:6
For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings.
Matthew 9:13
But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
Matthew 12:7
If only you had known the meaning of 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice, ' you would not have condemned the innocent.

Do you need more of how GOD unsatisfied with blood sacrifice, only because HE never command. The Jewish leaders and scribes add all kind of things to the law to control and benefits. Thats why GOD sent Jesus, and that's why they hate him.

That isn't true. God required sacrifices, the killing of animals, to pay for people's sins.

Leviticus 9:7, "Moses said to Aaron, “Come to the altar and sacrifice your sin offering and your burnt offering and make atonement for yourself and the people; sacrifice the offering that is for the people and make atonement for them, as the Lord has commanded.”

Leviticus 14:18, "“Then the priest is to sacrifice the sin offering and make atonement for the one to be cleansed from their uncleanness. After that, the priest shall slaughter the burnt offering"

Leviticus 15:15 and 15:30, "The priest is to sacrifice them, the one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. In this way he will make atonement before the Lord ..."

Leviticus 16:24, "He shall bathe himself with water in the sanctuary area and put on his regular garments. Then he shall come out and sacrifice the burnt offering for himself and the burnt offering for the people, to make atonement for himself and for the people."

Leviticus 17:5, "This is so the Israelites will bring to the Lord the sacrifices they are now making in the open fields. They must bring them to the priest, that is, to the Lord, at the entrance to the tent of meeting and sacrifice them as fellowship offerings."

Leviticus 17:8-9, “Say to them: ‘Any Israelite or any foreigner residing among them who offers a burnt offering or sacrifice and does not bring it to the entrance to the tent of meeting to sacrifice it to the Lord must be cut off from the people of Israel."

And there are more, but obviously the point is amply proven: GOD REQUIRED SACRIFICES FOR THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL.

 

[Tempo]

And there are more, but obviously the point is amply proven: GOD REQUIRED SACRIFICES FOR THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL.

>>>Well, who should I believe?
Your verses and mine 100% biblical.
But your verses only for "unintentional sins".

• Leviticus 4:2
• “Say to the Israelites: ‘When anyone sins unintentionally and does what is forbidden in any of the Lord’s commands—
• Leviticus 4:13
• “‘If the whole Israelite community sins unintentionally and does what is forbidden in any of the Lord’s commands, even though the community is unaware of the matter, when they realize their guilt

• Leviticus 4:22
• “‘When a leader sins unintentionally and does what is forbidden in any of the commands of the Lord his God, when he realizes his guilt.
• If You disagree, please show me one verse where is sacrifices required for intentional sin.
• Above all, what GOD said:

Jeremiah 7:22
22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

The next verse GOD by his own mouth told us, what HE required of them:

Jeremiah 7:23

King James Version

23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.​

Why the land of Egypt?

Because this what the Pagan Egyptians practice. GOD is here saying, I have nothing to do with it.
They just copied and used the practice to make money and sell the meat.
just like xmas, its 100% commercial, have nothing to do with God, but it became a religious holiday.

If sacrifices were command from GOD, do you think Jesus will attack the temple, turn the tables and release the animals??

Jeremiah 8:8

“‘How can you say, “We are wise,
for we have the law of the Lord,”
when actually the lying pen of the scribes
has handled it falsely?​

​

 

[jaybo]

>>>Well, who should I believe?
Your verses and mine 100% biblical.
But your verses only for "unintentional sins".

• Leviticus 4:2
• “Say to the Israelites: ‘When anyone sins unintentionally and does what is forbidden in any of the Lord’s commands—
• Leviticus 4:13
• “‘If the whole Israelite community sins unintentionally and does what is forbidden in any of the Lord’s commands, even though the community is unaware of the matter, when they realize their guilt
• Leviticus 4:22
• “‘When a leader sins unintentionally and does what is forbidden in any of the commands of the Lord his God, when he realizes his guilt.
• If You disagree, please show me one verse where is sacrifices required for intentional sin.
• Above all, what GOD said:

Jeremiah 7:22​

22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:​

​

The next verse GOD by his own mouth told us, what HE required of them:​

​

Jeremiah 7:23​

​

King James Version​

​

23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.​

​

​

Why the land of Egypt?​

​

Because this what the Pagan Egyptians practice. GOD is here saying, I have nothing to do with it.​

They just copied and used the practice to make money and sell the meat.​

just like xmas, its 100% commercial, have nothing to do with God, but it became a religious holiday.​

​

If sacrifices were command from GOD, do you think Jesus will attack the temple, turn the tables and release the animals??​

​

​

Jeremiah 8:8​

​

“‘How can you say, “We are wise,​

for we have the law of the Lord,”​

when actually the lying pen of the scribes​

has handled it falsely?​

Apparently you're not familiar with the Bible or you're just ignoring part of it. Sacrifices were required for all sins, intentional or not.