Jethro Bodine
Member
Now that you are born after Jesus, the second Adam, you CAN keep the requirements of God. Not perfectly, but more and more as we grow up in the new nature we have received.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
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How the Law and the Commandments Promotes Sin
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
Jethro Bodine
Member
No, no. You misunderstand. I will explain as time permits.
Robert Pate
Member
Sounds like Romanism. Are you a Catholic? Catholics believe that they are becoming like Christ when they take the sacraments. They call it transubstantiation. The requirement of God is that you become perfect. Are you perfect? If you are not perfect, then you need a savior. When you go into the judgment if you are not "In Christ" you will perish.
I find that not to be the case.
"Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the Law: for sin is the transgression of the Law."
1 John 3:4
Sin is the breaking of the Law.
What is your understood definition of the Law that excludes the 10 Commandments?
Paul certainly was not saying that Christians are incapable of sinning.
We are to live as Jesus lived. 1 John 2:6
Jesus made every effort to obey the 10 Commandments. John 15:10
No, the 10 Commandments were not repealed at the Cross or none of the followers of Christ (Christians) would've obeyed them after Christ's death. And even Paul obeyed them all long after that time.
"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they who keep the Commandments of God, ... the faith of Jesus."
Rev. 14:12
Robert Pate
Member
You are practicing Old Covenant law and religion that has abolished, Ephesians 2:15. Under the New Covenant God's people live by faith, Romans 1:17. Not by rules, laws or commandments like the Pharisses did. They live by faith in Christ and his Gospel. In the Gospel, Jesus justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles them unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19.
That is referred to as the Law of Ordinances, ceremonial/sacrificial ordinances - and it is not the 10 Commandments.
"Which stood only in meats and drinks and diverse washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation (until the time of Jesus)."
Heb. 9:10
Carnal there means fleshly, or external. Those were a different set of Laws that were placed on the outside of the Ark of the Covenant because they were contrary to man and were to be done away with later. The 10 Commandments were totally different and were placed inside the Ark as they were to be internalized; put into the heart of man. They were always intended to be forever. (Written in stone???)
Exod. 25:16
Deut. 31:26
Those were obviously done away with at the Cross because Christ was the absolutely perfect sacrifice to end all further need for sacrifices. That's what Eph. 2:15 is actually talking about. Not about the 10 Commandments.
Would you like to start a thread about how God doesn't mind anymore if we murder, rob, rape, commit adultery, lie, worship demons, etc. ??
Be happy to take it up with you there if so.
Interestingly, and on the contrary, Jesus taught His disciples to obey those very Laws (the 10 Commandments) that they taught and told them to do as they say, but not as they do - as they taught them but didn't obey any of them.
Matt. 23:1-3
Jesus justifies nobody who lives in daily, habitual sin.
James 3:2 makes a vital point here that if people were perfectly fine to live ungodly lives, there would be no mention of us slipping, stumbling or offending often. We all slip-up when working to live holy lives.
And, yes, we are absolutely Commanded to live holy lives, just as God is holy.
Matt. 5:48
Robert Pate
Member
To be under the law and the commandments is to be under the curse, Galatians 3:10. The reason being is that Jesus in our name and on our behalf has already fulfilled the law and the commandments for us. It is very apparent that you don't believe that because you think that is something that you have to do. This is why Paul said, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for those that believe" Romans 10:4.
"Because the law works wrath: for where there is no law, there is no transgression." Romans 4:15. Christians are not Pharisees. We are led and taught by the Holy Spirit, not the law. Paul said that the law is a ministration of death, 2 Corinthians 3:7. Worse yet, the law causes us to sin, Romans 7:8. You will not be able to live the Christian life until you are free from the law, Romans 8:2.
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Jethro Bodine
Member
Only if he's doing that in order to become righteous. Otherwise, he's doing it for the same reason you keep the law (i.e. do not steal, do not murder...).
God the Father is the one who did it all, personally.
His anger seethes for the majority of the world who reject giving HIM the glory He so richly deserves for all that He has done for mankind in humbling Himself unimaginably to come into a lowly human form and show us exactly how it's done.
He has told us He shares the glory He deserves with no one.
Isaiah 42:8
He has told us He is the ONLY Savior, Redeemer and Creator - the Holy ONE of Israel.
Isaiah 43:3, 11, 15
Isaiah 44:6, 24
Isaiah 45:11, 15, 18
47:4
And Jesus said that if you do not believe that He is the Father, you will die in your sins.
John 8:24
And die you will (spiritually) if you don't accept what He has taught in His Word.
His anger seethes for the majority of the world who reject giving HIM the glory He so richly deserves for all that He has done for mankind in humbling Himself unimaginably to come into a lowly human form and show us exactly how it's done.
He has told us He shares the glory He deserves with no one.
Isaiah 42:8
He has told us He is the ONLY Savior, Redeemer and Creator - the Holy ONE of Israel.
Isaiah 43:3, 11, 15
Isaiah 44:6, 24
Isaiah 45:11, 15, 18
47:4
And Jesus said that if you do not believe that He is the Father, you will die in your sins.
John 8:24
And die you will (spiritually) if you don't accept what He has taught in His Word.
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>>>Very interesting. We said God said yes, you said but Paul said no!
We said Jesus said no, you said, but Paul said yes.
Who is the true God to you Jesus Father or Paul?
Didn't Jesus say: the Father is the True God?
Did Jesus or his Father (God) abolished the law?
The law is not abolished. However, it is not applicable to Christians. Jesus paid the price for all violations of the law for all time for all people. Some people are smart enough to accept that. Their sins are forgiven and they receive the Holy Spirit to be their guide. Those who have not accepted Christ's sacrifice will have to pay the price themselves: death and eternal separation from God.
As Paul clearly and unmistakably in Romans 7, Christians are no longer under the law. We are "alive to God" in Christ Jesus.
Here is a brief selection which summarizes the point: "In the same way, my brothers and sisters, you have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead in order that we may bear fruit for God. For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. But now we are discharged from the law, dead to that which held us captive, so that we are enslaved in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the written code. Romans 7:4-6
Being IN Christ is the position of a believer...however we uphold the law when we obey it,
No
That just doesn't align with Scripture.
Jesus didn't die for all the sins we will ever commit. We are to be grown ups and not only take responsibility for our actions once He has wiped our slate clean of our past transgressions, but show some reverence for the free gift we were given at such a high cost to God Almighty.
"Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins."
Hebrews 10:26
Sin is the breaking of the Commandments. We are to obey the Commandments as there is no further sacrifice for sins that are added after we are saved and forgiven.
1 John 3:4
"It would be better if they had never known the way to righteousness than to know it and then reject the command they were given to live a holy life."
2 Peter 2:21
>>>Like never exist. what's the deference between abolished and not applicable?
>>>Jesus accomplished and finished his mission way before he was arrested and crucified. (John 17:4)
>>>Isn't "no longer" is the same as: abolished"? With my very bad English, I'll say YES.
>>>For God sakes, please quote GOD or his Son only once where is the law abolished or no longer applicable to you.
Jesus even says just the opposite.
Not one tiny bit of the Law will pass away until heaven and earth pass away. (That includes any single Commandment being repealed)
Matt. 5:18
He who obeys and teaches the Law will be considered greatest in heaven, he who does the opposite will hardly be considered at all.
Matt. 5:19
As we see from the words of Jesus, your "theory" is unfounded.
Once we are in Christ, we must heed His admonition to remain in Him.
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:6
- Here is how we are instructed to remain in Christ —
Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24
Please provide the scripture that says we can never be "unsealed".
Plainly no one has eternal life that is removed from Christ.
I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. John 15:1-2
JLB
>>>How about what GOD, His prophets and His Son whom unmistakably and clearly, command over and over again the complete opposite??
Jethro Bodine
Member
Jesus himself abolished it by becoming a New Covenant of High Priest and Sacrifice by which we are brought near to God.
The problem is Christians don't understand the difference between katalyō and katargeō. Jesus said he did not come to katalyō (destroy) the law and the prophets, but to fulfill them (Matthew 5:17). But what he did come to do was katargeō (make idle) the law (Ephesians 2:15). And he did that by fulfilling it, taking it out of the way, thus removing the obstacle that the law was to his people and bringing us near to God in the new and better way of the Spirit.
What you have to learn is what fulfilling the law actually means. It means not having to keep feasts and sabbaths in order to draw near to God. You don't have to do those literally anymore because you have already been brought near to God in Christ's fulfillment of the festival and Sabbaths. There's no salvific reason to continue to do through the old way of the law of Moses what Christ has done perfectly one time for all time through his Priestly Ministry and Sacrifice.