Is Creation By or Through Jesus Christ?

[Carry_Your_Name]

Indeed it is an issue with Hebrew grammar, which is important, and 99.9% of translations cannot get it wrong, and the 0.01% get it right!

Again, another example of dualistic false dichotomy. There is no way to determine what's absolutely right or wrong regarding an ancient language with no vowel. What I'm presenting in my post is not an argument about ancient Hebrew grammar, but modern English grammar. What I'm challenging is not a certain theology or a certain translation, but a fixed paradigm and confirmation bias, especially this black or white dualistic thinking.

 

[Runningman]

IF this is correct, then God the Father is wrong!

I don’t believe we should assume the position that God is wrong and we are correct.

It is beyond any question from Hebrews chapter one, verses 10-12, that the Father Addresses Jesus Christ as THE CREATOR.

"And, Thou, O Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail"

These words are from Psalm 102, which are spoken of Almighty God, the Creator:

"I said, O my God, take me not away in the midst of my days: Thy years are throughout all generations. Of old didst thou lay the foundation of the earth; And the heavens are the work of thy hands. They shall perish, but thou shalt endure; Yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; As a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed: But thou art the same, And thy years shall have no end" (verses 24-27)

The "Lord" in Hebrews is Yahweh

You correctly pointed out that Hebrews 1:10 refers to Psalm 102 which does indeed refer to YHWH.

Hebrews 1 verse 10 starts with the word “and” in the Greek text, so verse 9 and 10 are conjoined. Since verse 9 ends with, “Your God has set you [the Christ] above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy,” then “the Lord” in the beginning of verse 10 is a reference back to the God last mentioned, the Father.

Therefore it isn’t about Jesus creating the material universe. There is a clear example of YHWH and Jesus not being the same person in Psalm 110:1.

1The LORD said to my Lord:
“Sit at My right hand
until I make Your enemies
a footstool for Your feet.”

 

[SolaScriptura]

I don’t believe we should assume the position that God is wrong and we are correct.


You correctly pointed out that Hebrews 1:10 refers to Psalm 102 which does indeed refer to YHWH.

Hebrews 1 verse 10 starts with the word “and” in the Greek text, so verse 9 and 10 are conjoined. Since verse 9 ends with, “Your God has set you [the Christ] above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy,” then “the Lord” in the beginning of verse 10 is a reference back to the God last mentioned, the Father.

Therefore it isn’t about Jesus creating the material universe. There is a clear example of YHWH and Jesus not being the same person in Psalm 110:1.

1The LORD said to my Lord:
“Sit at My right hand
until I make Your enemies
a footstool for Your feet.”

The Greek conjunction, καί, is used in verse 10 as connecting what is said before, to continue what the Father is saying about the Lord Jesus Christ.

In verse 6 the Father Commands that Jesus Christ is WORSHIPED, which is only for Yahweh

In verses 8 and 9, the Father is continuing to Address Jesus Christ, and says directly to Him, "Your Throne O God, is for ever and ever...therefore O God, Your God..." Here we have TWO distinct Persons Who are equally GOD

This is also very clear in the Original reading in John 1:18;

"theon oudeis heōraken pōpote ho monogenēs theos", which is literally, "God no one has ever seen, the Unique God..."

There are TWO distinct Persons Who are equally GOD here. The Father and Jesus Christ.

 

[Mr. G Lee]

Man, I didn't mean to doubt or challenge any of these, just offering you a polemic perspective other than your orthodox trinity view. Genesis is also polemic, a more accurate translation of Gen. 1:1 would read: "WHEN in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth," that implies that creation was the presupposition, everybody believed that the cosmos was created by intelligent design; one purpose of the Genesis creation account was to challenge the polytheistic or pantheistic view which led to worship of celestial bodies, "great sea creatures" and other natural entities. All of those are creation, not creator, there's only one Creator, and mankind is made in his image to subdue the earth and steward nature, not the other way around.

I would offer God exist outside of time it's not when God as the beginning. . . "when" that would suggest time.

Remember three things make up the very essence of God. God's is eternal Spirit that works in mankind. God is love which he works in creation and last but not least God is Light and not only that he can create it temporal under the Sun. The corruption timekeeper winding down to the last day under the Sun created on the fourth day.

In that way God introduced himself as the light revealing the things hid in the dark

Not when rather than in

Genesis 1King James Version1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.And God said, Let there be light: and there was light

Let there be God : and there he was the light of the whole world. In the new heaven and earth there will be no Sun or Moon . This time 7 times brighter with no darkness as night ever again.

Isaiah 60:19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the Lord shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I would offer God exist outside of time it's not when God as the beginning. . . "when" that would suggest time.

So the seven days don't suggest time? God is eternal, He IS the beginning and the end. God didn't need a week to create the universe, he spaced it out in six days to set a pattern for usto follow.

 

[Mr. G Lee]

John was not preaching to the choir, if he was this would be another synoptic gospel. He was preaching to a people who never read Genesis 1 and they did perceive the divine order as a "nameless immoral force of power."

Two sources of power

2 Thessalonians 2 :9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

Satan the god of this world would have mankind believe it is all one and the same power .

Force of power is not a good way to speak of his many attributes as names.

The power of God as attribute of God in that he has many names. But he magnifies the power of His living word above all names He himself subject to them.

Just as the spirit of lies the father of lies has many . Satan, Legion, Lucifer
. Morning star, devil, wicked one, god of this world , etc

Psalm 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Two sources of power

2 Thessalonians 2 :9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

Satan the god of this world would have mankind believe it is all one and the same power .

Force of power is not a good way to speak of his many attributes as names.

The power of God as attribute of God in that he has many names. But he magnifies the power of His living word above all names He himself subject to them.

Just as the spirit of lies the father of lies has many . Satan, Legion, Lucifer
. Morning star, devil, wicked one, god of this world , etc

Psalm 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

Satan has no supernatural healing power that restores and transforms life, his power is for evil, it's to steal, kill and destroy. With great power comes great responsibility, the purpose of power is more important than the mgnitutde of power.

 

[Runningman]

The Greek conjunction, καί, is used in verse 10 as connecting what is said before, to continue what the Father is saying about the Lord Jesus Christ.

The last God mentioned was Christ's God because verse 9 shows that God anointed Jesus. God doesn't need to be anointed "above" His companions since He is already about them. It's referring to the Father of Jesus.

28The children of Your servants will dwell securely,
and their descendants will be established before You.”

In verse 6 the Father Commands that Jesus Christ is WORSHIPED, which is only for Yahweh

That was told to angels and they weren't instructed to worship the Son as God.

In verses 8 and 9, the Father is continuing to Address Jesus Christ, and says directly to Him, "Your Throne O God, is for ever and ever...therefore O God, Your God..." Here we have TWO distinct Persons Who are equally GOD

Hebrews 1:8 is referring to a human because it's quoted from Psalm 45 that refers to a human king with a queen. God doesn't have a queen.

Additionally, it says "therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of exultation above your peers.” That the text calls God, “your God,” (the king’s God) shows that the king is inferior to God. “God” does not have a God. It would make no sense to be calling the king “God” here, as the clear biblical teaching is that there is one God. So if Jesus is God, how could he have a God? I believe this should be translated as a god with a little g.

This is also very clear in the Original reading in John 1:18;

"theon oudeis heōraken pōpote ho monogenēs theos", which is literally, "God no one has ever seen, the Unique God..."

There are TWO distinct Persons Who are equally GOD here. The Father and Jesus Christ.

Literally depends which base text you read. John 1:18 rendered in your way creates a contradiction. If no one has even seen God then they couldn't see the Unique God either nor could God see Himself.

Here is the correct translation that doesn't suffer from that error:

John 1:18 NKJV
18No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

 

[Mr. G Lee]

Hebrews 1:8 is referring to a human because it's quoted from Psalm 45 that refers to a human king with a queen. God doesn't have a queen.

I would offer. Hebrew 1:8 but unto the Son. The Son says referring to the unseen God. . . His throne is forever and ever .The Son has no throne.

Hebrew 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

The ESV version says it correctly

Hebrew 1:8 ESV But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.

God as our Holy Father looks to the unseen things of God (faith) kings in Israel an abomination of desolation.

The Bible denies the idea of a human queen entity. Calls it the abomination of desolation. Human form in the place of our unseen Holy Father.

The atheist Jew demanded a his and hers gods with all approval from the husbands. they denied the book of the law the Bible in exchange as an oral tradition on of dying mankind.

They did their own will. . . again making the will of God desolate. The abomination of desolation.

Jeremaiah 44:15-17 Then all the men which knew that their wives had burned incense unto other gods, and all the women that stood by, a great multitude, even all the people that dwelt in the land of Egypt, in Pathros, answered Jeremiah, saying,As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the Lord, we will not hearken unto thee.But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil

 

[SolaScriptura]

The last God mentioned was Christ's God because verse 9 shows that God anointed Jesus. God doesn't need to be anointed "above" His companions since He is already about them. It's referring to the Father of Jesus.

28The children of Your servants will dwell securely,
and their descendants will be established before You.”

That was told to angels and they weren't instructed to worship the Son as God.


Hebrews 1:8 is referring to a human because it's quoted from Psalm 45 that refers to a human king with a queen. God doesn't have a queen.

Additionally, it says "therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of exultation above your peers.” That the text calls God, “your God,” (the king’s God) shows that the king is inferior to God. “God” does not have a God. It would make no sense to be calling the king “God” here, as the clear biblical teaching is that there is one God. So if Jesus is God, how could he have a God? I believe this should be translated as a god with a little g.


Literally depends which base text you read. John 1:18 rendered in your way creates a contradiction. If no one has even seen God then they couldn't see the Unique God either nor could God see Himself.

Here is the correct translation that doesn't suffer from that error:

John 1:18 NKJV
18No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

No one is ever to truly WORSHIP any Created person, because true WORSHIP is for Almighty God ALONE. In Revelation 5:13-14, whatever "blessing and honor and glory and might", is given to Him that sits on the Throne, as God the Father, is EQUALLY given to the Lamb, Jesus Christ; and BOTH are WORSHIPED TOGETHER.

No human king is ever told in the Bible, "Your Throne O God". This is an Address directly to Yahweh.

The oldest Greek manuscripts reads in John 1:18, "monogenēs theos". The Papyri 66 and 75, as is it read in the Greek New Testament in the 1st century AD, as found in Bishop Ignatius, who died in AD 110. Even the early heretics who denied that Jesus Christ is God, like Valentinus, Heracleon, Ptolemy, Theodotus of Byzantium, Origen, Arius, who are 1st to 3rd centuries, all had, "monogenēs theos", in their Greek Gospel of John. The Unitarian New Testament by Dr Noyes, also has “God”, as do the Jehovah's Witnesses, in their Greek Interlinear, where they read "god", because of their "Christology", and not as the Greek says.

 

[Runningman]

No one is ever to truly WORSHIP any Created person, because true WORSHIP is for Almighty God ALONE. In Revelation 5:13-14, whatever "blessing and honor and glory and might", is given to Him that sits on the Throne, as God the Father, is EQUALLY given to the Lamb, Jesus Christ; and BOTH are WORSHIPED TOGETHER.

Oh, but they do, but not in the sense of deifying someone. Bowing down in reverence, paying homage, and honor to someone was often used in a cultural sense for people of high rank and status. Where the line is crossed is when they are being made an idol or a god. This is all over the Old and New Testament. Abraham did it in Genesis 23:12 for starters.

All of the examples of Jesus being bowed down have a context that say he is the Son of God, but not God.

When Jesus is bowed to, it's only for God the Father's glory.

Philippians 2
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

No human king is ever told in the Bible, "Your Throne O God". This is an Address directly to Yahweh.

Psalm 45 is about a human king with a queen and Hebrews 1:8 draws from that text.

The oldest Greek manuscripts reads in John 1:18, "monogenēs theos". The Papyri 66 and 75, as is it read in the Greek New Testament in the 1st century AD, as found in Bishop Ignatius, who died in AD 110. Even the early heretics who denied that Jesus Christ is God, like Valentinus, Heracleon, Ptolemy, Theodotus of Byzantium, Origen, Arius, who are 1st to 3rd centuries, all had, "monogenēs theos", in their Greek Gospel of John. The Unitarian New Testament by Dr Noyes, also has “God”, as do the Jehovah's Witnesses, in their Greek Interlinear, where they read "god", because of their "Christology", and not as the Greek says.

The word "theos" has a wider application than always referring to God(the Almighty.) Think about what the version you're using is actually saying though. A begotten God? That would be two Gods. That's polytheism, my friend, and that's a Biblical no-no. If God was begotten then he had a beginning point, he wouldn't be eternal, and therefore it would mean he's created. The Bible simply shows otherwise in so many cases.

 

[SolaScriptura]

Oh, but they do, but not in the sense of deifying someone. Bowing down in reverence, paying homage, and honor to someone was often used in a cultural sense for people of high rank and status. Where the line is crossed is when they are being made an idol or a god. This is all over the Old and New Testament. Abraham did it in Genesis 23:12 for starters.

All of the examples of Jesus being bowed down have a context that say he is the Son of God, but not God.

When Jesus is bowed to, it's only for God the Father's glory.

Philippians 2
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

Psalm 45 is about a human king with a queen and Hebrews 1:8 draws from that text.


The word "theos" has a wider application than always referring to God(the Almighty.) Think about what the version you're using is actually saying though. A begotten God? That would be two Gods. That's polytheism, my friend, and that's a Biblical no-no. If God was begotten then he had a beginning point, he wouldn't be eternal, and therefore it would mean he's created. The Bible simply shows otherwise in so many cases.

In Isaiah 9:6, which is a Prophecy for the Lord Jesus Christ, one of the Titles is "’êl Gibbôr". This is exactly the same that is used for the Father in Isaiah 10:21. In both places the translation is the same, "Mighty God", which is how even the Jehovah's Witnesses read. How can Jesus Christ be MIGHTY GOD, as the Father is, and be in any way inferior to the Father?

 

[Mr. G Lee]

Psalm 45 is about a human king with a queen and Hebrews 1:8 draws from that text.

That would seem to be a misinterpretation. The King is the King of earthly kings.

Kings in Israel the abomination of desolation.

Thou art fairer than dying mankind: grace is poured into thy lips:


Psalms 45:1-2 My heart is inditing a good matter: I speak of the things which I have made touching the king: my tongue is the pen of a ready writer. Thou art fairer than the children of men: grace is poured into thy lips: therefore God hath blessed thee for ever.

 

[Mr. G Lee]

In Isaiah 9:6, which is a Prophecy for the Lord Jesus Christ, one of the Titles is "’êl Gibbôr". This is exactly the same that is used for the Father in Isaiah 10:21. In both places the translation is the same, "Mighty God", which is how even the Jehovah's Witnesses read. How can Jesus Christ be MIGHTY GOD, as the Father is, and be in any way inferior to the Father?

Yes, the Lord Jesus Christ eternal God not seen. Not the Son of man Jesus. . the temporal seen.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

That would seem to be a misinterpretation. The King is the King of earthly kings.

Kings in Israel the abomination of desolation.

Thou art fairer than dying mankind: grace is poured into thy lips:


Psalms 45:1-2 My heart is inditing a good matter: I speak of the things which I have made touching the king: my tongue is the pen of a ready writer. Thou art fairer than the children of men: grace is poured into thy lips: therefore God hath blessed thee for ever.

Abomination of desolation is exactly what it literally means - desolation. Once a good fertile land flowing with milk and honey granted to his chosen people Israel, then a barren desert occupied by Israel's mortal enemy, the descendants of Esau. If that's not an abomination, I don't know what is.

 

[JLB]

Is Creation By or Through Jesus Christ?

Is Jesus Christ the actual Creator of the heavens and the earth, or is He simply the secondary cause?

The early Church heretic, Origen, who lives in the 3rd century, wrote on John 1:3;

“'All things came into being through him'. The agent 'through whom' never has the first place but always the second...Thus if all things were brought into being through the Word, it is not by him but by one greater and mightier than the Word. And who would this be but the Father?" (Henry Bettenson; The Early Christian Fathers; Origen, Comm. in Ioannem, ii.10 (6),p. 240)

This theology has also been adopted by some, like Dr George Ladd, who wrote in his theology:

“John asserts that the Logos was the agent of creation. He is not the ultimate source of creation, but the agent through whom God, the ultimate source, created the world. This same theology is expressed in Paul's words: that all things come from (ek) God through (dia) Christ (I Cor.8:6; see also Col.1:16)” (A Theology of the New Testament, p.242. 1977 edition)

By this we are to understand, that the actual Creator is God the Father, Who some how Created “through” the Lord Jesus Christ. I am interested to know how this works? What does it mean that the Father Created THROUGH Jesus Christ? Why would God the Father, Who is according to some, the Only True God, Who alone is Omnipotent, not Create the universe by Himself, rather than THROUGH someone Who is not supposed to be His equal?

Further, what about the verses in the Bible, like Genesis 1:1, where it clearly says, that “In the beginning GOD Created”? Nothing about Creating THROUGH the Son? What about Isaiah 44:24, “Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: “I am the Lord, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself,” and 45.12, “I made the earth and created man on it; it was my hands that stretched out the heavens, and I commanded all their host.”; and 48:13, “My hand laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens; when I call to them, they stand forth together.” Nehemiah 9:6, “You alone are the LORD. You created the heavens, the highest heavens with all their host, the earth and all that is on it, the seas and all that is in them. You give life to all things, and the heavenly host worships You.”. Psalm 96:5, “For all the gods of the nations are idols, but it is the LORD who made the heavens.”. That God never used a “secondary agent” to Create. What do we understand when it says, “alone...by Myself”? And, “My Hands”, etc, etc? None of this says in any way, that God somehow Created THROUGH a “lesser” Person, the Lord Jesus Christ, as some suppose! For those who believe that Jesus Christ is not GOD, but a lesser Being, not equal to the Father. It must be asked, IF, Jesus Christ is the “secondary agent” in Creation, and then we have Genesis 1:1, which clearly says that God Created, and the other passages, in the Old Testament, that say this. Jesus Christ is either THE Creator, or He had nothing whatsoever to do in the Creating of the heavens and the earth.

There is much evidence in the New Testament, that is clear that Jesus Christ did Create the entire universe.

It is also clear from Hebrews 2:10, that God the Father is The Creator of the universe;

“For it became Him, for Whom are all things, and through Whom are all things, in bringing many children to glory, to make the Author of their salvation perfect through sufferings”

The “αὐτῷ” (Him) here is God the Father, and “τὸν ἀρχηγὸν τῆς σωτηρίας αὐτῶν” (The Author of their (many children) salvation), is Jesus Christ. Here we have, “δι’ ὃν τὰ πάντα καὶ δι’ οὗ τὰ πάντα”, where the Greek preposition “διά”, used twice, translate into English by, “for”, and “through”. In both cases the preposition is in the genitive case. This is the same preposition, in the same case, that is used in places like John 1:3, for Jesus Christ. So, why do some understand that John 1:3, means that Jesus Christ is “the agent of Creation”; and when the same preposition in the same case, is used for the Father, it does not mean “agency”, but, “source”? Clearly this is more to do with “theology”, than what the Bible actually Teaches. I cannot agree with Greek works like the grammar by H E Dana and J R Mantey, where they say on the use of “διά”, in John 1:3 and Hebrews 1:2, when used for Jesus Christ:

“Although διά is occasionally used to express agency, it does not approximate to the full strength of ὑπό. This distinction throws light on Jesus' relation to the creation, implying that Jesus was not the absolute, independent creator, but rather the intermediate agent in creation. see Jn.1:3, πάντα δι’ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο; Heb.1:2, δι’ οὗ καὶ ἐποίησεν τοὺς αἰῶνας ” ( A Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament, p.102)

They did not refer to Hebrews 2:10, in their examination of this preposition. It is clear from its use here, and elsewhere, that it is not only used to show “intermediate agent”, otherwise we must ask the question, who Created “through” God the Father, as the Greek could mean in this verse? As in Romans 11:36, where we also read, “οτι εξ αυτου και δι αυτου και εις αυτον τα παντα (For of Him, and through Him, and to Him, are all things)”, the Greek preposition “διά”, also is used for “the author of the action”. If we are going to take this meaning when used for the Father, as it is in Hebrews 2:10, and Romans 11:36, then why not when used for Jesus Christ?

As in Romans 11:36, where it refers to God the Father, we have in Colossians 1:16, the words, “ἐν αὐτῷ…δι’ αὐτοῦ καὶ εἰς αὐτὸν” (in Him…through Him and for Him), which are used for Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is THE Creator, as “IN Him and THROUGH Him and FOR Him”, is the Universe. In verse 17 Paul continues, “ καὶ αὐτός ἐστιν πρὸ πάντων καὶ τὰ πάντα ἐν αὐτῷ συνέστηκεν”. That is, “and He IS before all things and all things in Him consist”. Creation DEPENDS on Jesus Christ! The Greek preposition, “ἐν”, having the same force as in Acts 17:28, “ἐν αὐτῷ γὰρ ζῶμεν καὶ κινούμεθα καὶ ἐσμέν” (for in Him we live, and move and exist), where God is the “source” of all life. There is an interesting variant reading in John 1:4, which dates from the early 2nd century in Greek, “ἐν αὐτῷ ζωὴ ἐστιν” (in Him IS Life), and not, “ζωὴ ἦν” (was life), which is the “source” of life. In fact, in Acts 3:15, the Apostle Peter calls Jesus Christ, “τον δε αρχηγον της ζωης”, which is, “the Prince of life” (KJV). “αρχηγον” means, “the author, founder, originator, first-cause”.

In Revelation 3:14, Jesus describes Himself as “ἡ ἀρχὴ τῆς κτίσεως τοῦ θεοῦ”, which is, “the Beginning of the Creation of God”. “ἀρχὴ”, here does not mean, “the first to be Created”, which is what the Jehovah's Witnesses understand the words to mean, as they corrupt the English here, to read, “the beginning of the creation by God”. Notice how they misrepresent what the Greek says, by inserting “BY” God, to make Jesus Christ the first-created. John did not write, “τοῦ ὑπό θεοῦ”, which would require the Greek preposition “ὑπό”, to be used. Interesting that in this same chapter of Revelation, in verses 1 and 12, as elsewhere, John writes, “τοῦ θεοῦ”, as he does in verse 14. And yet in these places, the JW's translate into English, “of God”, which is what the genitive case means!If “ἀρχὴ” here means “first to be created”, then there would have been no need to insert in English, the preposition “BY”. The Greek lexicon by the Unitarian, Dr Joseph Thayer, says of the word, “ἀρχὴ”, “that by which anything begins to be, the origin, active cause”. Which means that Jesus Christ here says that He IS The Creator.

For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. Colossians 1:16

 

[SolaScriptura]

Yes, the Lord Jesus Christ eternal God not seen. Not the Son of man Jesus. . the temporal seen.

I really don't know where you get this from? There is only ONE Person Who is the Lord Jesus Christ, the Eternal God, Who is known to us at "The Son of God". He is 100% COEQUAL, COETERNAL and COESSENTIAL with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. Three distinct, equal Persons in One Eternal Divine Essence/Being/Godhead

 

[SolaScriptura]

For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. Colossians 1:16

Indeed, Jesus Christ is THE SOURCE of all Creation, which is seen in the first of three prepositions used by Paul in Philippians 1:16, "ta panta en autōi ektisthē", "all things IN Him were Created". The translations that read here "BY Him" are misleading from the Greek. As in John 1:4, "en autōi zōē ēn", IN Him was Life", as Jesus is the SOURCE of all life. And Paul says in Acts 17:28, "en autōi gar zōmen, kinoumetha, esōmen", "for IN Him we live, move and exist".

 

[Mr. G Lee]

I really don't know where you get this from? There is only ONE Person Who is the Lord Jesus Christ, the Eternal God, Who is known to us at "The Son of God". He is 100% COEQUAL, COETERNAL and COESSENTIAL with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. Three distinct, equal Persons in One Eternal Divine Essence/Being/Godhead

The Holy Spirit is the eternal Spirit of the Holy Father. God

Yes, one person not the dying Son of man, Jesus.

Jesus the Son of man did the will of Father that worked in him. Jesus did it with delight some murmur.

Jesus the Son of man did become a born-again the Son of God. He cried out Abba Holy Father empower me to do your good will. the first born of many Born again Chrsitians. . sons of God

1 John 3:1Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is

Two is the one witness God has spoken. Two persons one not seen (Holy Father) and two the son of man Jesus seen .The instrument God used to demonstration his glorious labor of love to his bride the church.

 

[JLB]

Indeed, Jesus Christ is THE SOURCE of all Creation, which is seen in the first of three prepositions used by Paul in Philippians 1:16, "ta panta en autōi ektisthē", "all things IN Him were Created". The translations that read here "BY Him" are misleading from the Greek. As in John 1:4, "en autōi zōē ēn", IN Him was Life", as Jesus is the SOURCE of all life. And Paul says in Acts 17:28, "en autōi gar zōmen, kinoumetha, esōmen", "for IN Him we live, move and exist".

Jesus Christ is the One who created all things according to the will of God the Father.


Jesus Christ the Son, as YHWH the LORD God stretched out the heavens and laid the foundations of the earth.


But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And:
“You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
Hebrews 1:8-10





JLB