Is Jesus genetically related to Mary?

[miamited]

The first humans were made in the image of God (By let Us make man). And the Spirit The Holy breathed life into them.


eddif

Hi eddif

Yes, that's right. And common belief is that all of mankind is 'made' with God's image. But that doesn't, then, answer the question at hand. How did the zygote of Jesus come to be in Mary's womb? And, as some say, did God use the egg of Mary to accomplish the task? Or did He just put a fully formed zygote of Jesus in her womb and the Holy Spirit knit it to the uterine wall of Mary's womb?

God bless,
Ted

 

[hawkman]

Hi eddif

Yes, that's right. And common belief is that all of mankind is 'made' with God's image. But that doesn't, then, answer the question at hand. How did the zygote of Jesus come to be in Mary's womb? And, as some say, did God use the egg of Mary to accomplish the task? Or did He just put a fully formed zygote of Jesus in her womb and the Holy Spirit knit it to the uterine wall of Mary's womb?

God bless,
Ted

Would you say the "egg of Mary " was the seed of a woman ?

 

[eddif]

Ultimately all this is:
The ground is the heart of man.
The seed is the Word of God
The new man is made alive by the quickening spirit of the 2nd Adam.

Symbolism never makes sense to anyone not given understanding. We can talk among ourselves, but till we ask Jesus it is:
(Every time the Old Testament is read a veil falls over their understanding).

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[Hopeful 2]

It does seem to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:9 kjv
9. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

So we can say we have no sin.
Start walking in the light-God after your confession and you won't walk in darkness-sin ever again.

That verse does not specify when.

Don't be recalcitrant.

The last trump defines when.

The last trump signals the day of judgement, on which there is no more remediation for past sins.

Try another verse I may have missed.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

It pains me that you would make such an effort to continue to live in darkness-sin.

 

[eddif]

So we can say we have no sin.
Start walking in the light-God after your confession and you won't walk in darkness-sin ever again.

Don't be recalcitrant.

The last trump signals the day of judgement, on which there is no more remediation for past sins.

It pains me that you would make such an effort to continue to live in darkness-sin.

Claiming that all sin is gone takes a new convert into disaster. If we say we have no sin the new convert is undone when a sin is discovered.
2 Timothy 2:18

eddif

 

[Hopeful 2]

Claiming that all sin is gone takes a new convert into disaster. If we say we have no sin the new convert is undone when a sin is discovered.
2 Timothy 2:18

eddif

If he is a convert, he will welcome the ability to please his rescuer.
You seem to be unaware of the power inherent in rebirth from Gods seed.
Only His fruit can come from His seed. (1 John 3:9-10)

 

[miamited]

Would you say the "egg of Mary " was the seed of a woman ?

Hi hawkman

Thanks. That' worth looking into and something that hadn't ever entered into the discussions of it before.

God bless,
Ted

 

[jeremiah1five]

Hi jeremiah1five
Well, the argument seems to be that Mary must have had some genetic influence in the birth of Jesus because, otherwise, he wouldn't have been human.

Hello miamited.
I agree. Mary passed on her genetics to her human Son, Jesus (remember, the Divine comes from the Holy Spirit.)

So I ask, how were Adam and Eve then humans if they weren't created from some previously existing human's DNA? If Adam and Ever were human, though obviously not formed from any previous DNA, although Eve did have a part of Adam's rib cage, then wouldn't it stand that Jesus could also be human while not having been created from some previous human DNA?

Adam was created from the dust of the ground. In Genesis there are two Hebrew words translated in the English "created." The first word is "bara" which is used of God creating something out of nothing (heaven and earth.)\The other word is "tohu" which means to create something out of something (else) such as Adam from the dust and the woman from his rib, etc.

8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. Gen. 2:8.

Let's look at the word "formed." I use James Strong's Hebrew and Greek. Always have. I like that he just gives the definition without adding what he thinks it means and how you should apply it without the commentary.

Strong's #3334 - yâtsar. pronounced yaw-tsar. meaning "squeezing" or "pressing" into shape; to mould into a form; espec. as a potter.

I like the way you think. That is, I like that you THINK period. I never looked that 'deep' into the question, I just accepted that God created the man and woman with everything necessary to produce offspring and pass on their genes on down the line all the way to Jesus and Jesus' half-brothers and half-sisters, and to their kids as well.
So, Jesus was born with Mary's DNA and all the cellular structures and genes necessary for birth. That is the miracle first of Jesus birth and second that He was born a man also with DNA and all the cellular stuff babies are born with.
Biblical doctrine states that Jesus is fully man (human.) He is not half human because He only had the woman's DNA but that provoked an interesting thought. Without a man's DNA and cellular stuff, I still believe that Jesus being fully man would also be able to have children with a woman even without a man's DNA (Joseph) because that is the miracle of His birth. Being fully man to me means He is human in every way that defines human.

As I say, we don't any of us know the actual 'how' Jesus came to be implanted in Mary's womb, but I'm going to give credit that if God can make humans without using some previous human's DNA, then He 'could' have done that with Jesus. The 'coming over' of the Holy Spirit with Mary could just as well have been to implant an already fully formed zygote. Otherwise, it just gets kind of messy to me that the Holy Spirit only brought the male part of the equation, but apparently could not have provided the female part of the equation. How then was Jesus born a male, if there were no male chromosomes in his genetic makeup...only female?

Ah, I was thinking that above, so we are on the same page. Let me share something with you that I like to share with others to test their knowledge and have fun with the question. But I'll share it as a statement.
God creates a human four ways.
1. From the dust of the ground (Adam)
2. From the man without the woman (Eve)
3. From the woman without the man (Christ)
4. From the man and woman together (children)

As I said above that is the miracle of Jesus' birth. God conceived Him with every thing necessary to birth Him fully human. God did it and it is marvelous in our sight.

But I fully admit that it's not something that God has made clear to us through the Scriptures, the 'how' Jesus came to be in Mary's womb other than to say that the Holy Spirit came over her. What did he actually do to affect the zygote of Jesus attached to her uterine wall, to then be born as any other human child is born. Which was necessary for the prophecy of the Scriptures to be true. The virgin will be with child! And it is merely an esoteric discussion of the possibilities of 'how' Jesus came to be implanted in Mary's womb and born unto us.
That's all. God bless, Ted.

We can only look at the result of His birth and not the inner workings of things like those things you think of above. Intriguing to say the least. But all we can come to is reasonable speculation about those microscopic things like DNA and cells and genes.
But I do know one thing...He looks just like His Father.
And if we accept He's fully human, then He also looks like His mother.

But one more thing I believe is that when God said, "Let us make man in our own image" I believe that the image of God is Christ and that God looked forward (even prophesied) to the day His Son would be born. And Scripture says we are being conformed into the image of Christ (not Adam.)
I hold the image of God is Christ and that there is no better image of a Father than a Son.
How did I do?

 

[jeremiah1five]

Ultimately all this is:
The ground is the heart of man.
The seed is the Word of God
The new man is made alive by the quickening spirit of the 2nd Adam.

Symbolism never makes sense to anyone not given understanding. We can talk among ourselves, but till we ask Jesus it is:
(Every time the Old Testament is read a veil falls over their understanding).

Mississippi redneck
eddif

I like the way you spiritualized it.
I also shared below to Ted that I believe that God looked forward to the day of His Son's birth when He said, "Let us make man in our image" and I receive it as prophecy.
The true image of God is not Adam except that he was created three-part (body, soul, human spirit.) The true image of God is Christ. We are as born again people being conformed into the image of Christ, not Adam, and Christ is the image of God.
There is no better image of a Father than a Son, don't you think?

 

[eddif]

Welcome to the world of PaRDeS.

Now if you look back to post 95 you may see the pottery ribbon that is used to form the vessel we are while in the womb.

It is a little strange at first.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[eddif]

Would you say the "egg of Mary " was the seed of a woman ?

Good.

And, at the grocery store are you getting a fertilized egg or not?

eddif

 

[jeremiah1five]

Hi jeremiah1five

I still don't understand this claim. Is it your understanding that neither Adam nor Eve were human?

God bless,
Ted

No, Ted.
Adam and the woman were created first from the dirt/dust of the ground (Adam), and from Adam's rib bone (the woman), and they were to be what we in English call human. And I believe they were created sinful, or as Strong's defines the word "sin" as "missing the mark." What is the "mark" they missed or fell short of (think archery)?
The glory of God, or the glory that is God.
I believe they were created sinful because of several facts but the one I want to say is they sinned because they were created sinful. They are not sinful because they sinned. You see the difference? Sin comes from sinners. Sin does not come from holy and most in the Church believe God created Adam and the woman holy, or righteous, or perfect, or innocent.
At any rate they were both created human. Every child born after that is born human. Even Jesus Christ.
Messiah's human name is Jesus. His Divine/Deity name is Christ.
Jesus Christ the God/ man.
It was God becoming man and not man becoming God.
The prophecy of the Promised God/Man is Genesis 3:15

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Gen. 3:15.

And another prophecy:

18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. Dt. 18:18.

"From among their brethren" means He will come from one of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel, and we now know He was born into the tribe of Judah. That's where we get the name "Jew." But the word has come to identify everyone born from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, whom God changed his name to Israel.

Why do you think that Adam and the woman are not human?

 

[jeremiah1five]

Hi jeremiah1five

Well, the argument seems to be that Mary must have had some genetic influence in the birth of Jesus because, otherwise, he wouldn't have been human. So I ask, how were Adam and Eve then humans if they weren't created from some previously existing human's DNA? If Adam and Ever were human, though obviously not formed from any previous DNA, although Eve did have a part of Adam's rib cage, then wouldn't it stand that Jesus could also be human while not having been created from some previous human DNA?

God created everything that is in the human body when He created Adam and the woman. God IS the Creator is He not?
There was no existing DNA or RNA or muscle or bone or tendons before the creation of Adam and the woman. For Adam God created everything that is human from the dust of the ground. For the woman God created everything that is woman from the rib bone of Adam.

As I say, we don't any of us know the actual 'how' Jesus came to be implanted in Mary's womb, but I'm going to give credit that if God can make humans without using some previous human's DNA, then He 'could' have done that with Jesus. The 'coming over' of the Holy Spirit with Mary could just as well have been to implant an already fully formed zygote. Otherwise, it just gets kind of messy to me that the Holy Spirit only brought the male part of the equation, but apparently could not have provided the female part of the equation. How then was Jesus born a male, if there were no male chromosomes in his genetic makeup...only female?

Oh no. God used the DNA from Mary to birth Jesus. This is the humanity of Israel's Messiah.

But I fully admit that it's not something that God has made clear to us through the Scriptures, the 'how' Jesus came to be in Mary's womb other than to say that the Holy Spirit came over her. What did he actually do to affect the zygote of Jesus attached to her uterine wall, to then be born as any other human child is born. Which was necessary for the prophecy of the Scriptures to be true. The virgin will be with child! And it is merely an esoteric discussion of the possibilities of 'how' Jesus came to be implanted in Mary's womb and born unto us.
That's all.
God bless,
Ted

The Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary, called forth the right egg from her reproductive organs and miraculously joined both the Seed of God with her egg such as the egg of woman and sperm of man are joined in conception and viola' Jesus Christ is born about 9 months later.
Now, it seems to me you're asking questions that we may never know the answer to.
Some things are just meant never to be known, like seeing the singularity of a black hole. Impossible. But who knows? You can ask the Lord this when you get to glory.

 

[miamited]

Hi jeremiah1five

God created everything that is in the human body when He created Adam and the woman. God IS the Creator is He not?
There was no existing DNA or RNA or muscle or bone or tendons before the creation of Adam and the woman. For Adam God created everything that is human from the dust of the ground. For the woman God created everything that is woman from the rib bone of Adam.

I'm not sure why you're preaching that message. I don't have any question on that. But yes, because God can create something such as DNA, RNA, muscle, bone or tendon from nothing. He can also do the same thing to bring forth His Son's human body.

Oh no. God used the DNA from Mary to birth Jesus. This is the humanity of Israel's Messiah.

And yet you call out the same argument. You want to equate being 'human' as only being someone who must have someone's previously existing DNA.

I honestly don't think you understand my questions here. Thanks for your response.

The Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary, called forth the right egg from her reproductive organs and miraculously joined both the Seed of God with her egg such as the egg of woman and sperm of man are joined in conception and viola' Jesus Christ is born about 9 months later.

You were there and that's your eyewitness account or you have some other evidence to back that up? We don't know 'how' the Holy Spirit accomplished the task of making Mary pregnant with child. 'called forth the right egg'? Really??? You've got a theological treatise that supports that as truth? Do you believe that it would have been impossible for God to have implanted Mary, through the Holy Spirit, with a fully formed and functioning zygote?

God bless,
Ted

 

[eddif]

God created everything that is in the human body when He created Adam and the woman. God IS the Creator is He not?
There was no existing DNA or RNA or muscle or bone or tendons before the creation of Adam and the woman. For Adam God created everything that is human from the dust of the ground. For the woman God created everything that is woman from the rib bone of Adam.

God had already made some plants and animals before man was created. The genetic dust may be in man also.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[eddif]

No, Ted.
Adam and the woman were created first from the dirt/dust of the ground (Adam), and from Adam's rib bone (the woman), and they were to be what we in English call human. And I believe they were created sinful, or as Strong's defines the word "sin" as "missing the mark." What is the "mark" they missed or fell short of (think archery)?
The glory of God, or the glory that is God.
I believe they were created sinful because of several facts but the one I want to say is they sinned because they were created sinful.

Adam and Eve became living souls. That is a very good creation, but they did not know the difference between good and evil.
The spiritual gifts of 1 Corinthians 12 were not in them. They had the breath of life in them from Spirit the Holy, but they did not have the Holy Spirit in themselves.

Satan/serpent wanted them to know good and evil. Not the difference between good and evil, but break the (not eat) commandment and become sinful.

It is all the way to Pentecost before sons and daughters had the new man birth.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[eddif]

Why does he have to be descended from a man? Why is that important? What is so special about David?I notice you are still on the site, but not posting in your thread.

SyrianMariam
I notice you are still on the site, but not posting on your thread.

1 Peter 2:24 kjv
24. Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

He has to be descended from a man!
Because?:
The sins of man must be in Jesus on the cross.
If the egg of Mary is the source of sins, then the source of sins are from ancestors of man.
Mary does not have to be a sinner, because bad actions can be turned off in her.

If God/Holy Spirit had to create an evil thing to be placed in Mary, then God is creating evil. Evil was found in Lucifer. How and where it came from I do not know.

The solution for our sins comes from Jesus. So human history needs to be in Jesus.

The good side of Jesus’s genetic Double Helix was from God. That allows God to be creator of Good. It also allows the domonate genes to be from God.

I realize I am bypassing some longstanding church doctrine. We as individuals ask God for wisdom and understanding.

James 1:5 kjv
5. If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

Don’t ask eddif, he probably does not know.

The traditions of man can be wrong. Doctrine is a scary area.

Thanks for starting the thread,

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[hawkman]

Hi hawkman

Thanks. That' worth looking into and something that hadn't ever entered into the discussions of it before.

God bless,
Ted

Let us start at the beginning of the issue of seed of a woman .

King James 2000​

And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.

The he is Jesus and he will be the seed of the woman. Their is no man involved in the procreation of Jesus but He comes from the seed of a woman .

And what did God tell Abraham .
Genesis 22:18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice

Galatians 3
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

And what did the prophet Nathan tell to David in 2 Samuel 7 .

12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.

13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.

thy seed
Romans1
3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

Not only do we have seed in this verse but we have flesh also !

And in Acts13

22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave their testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.

23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

According to His promise of this man's seed .

Jesus was born of a seed of a woman , Mary . Mary and Jesus are genetically related .
Jesus the Son of man , Jesus the Son of David .

 

[eddif]

Let us start at the beginning of the issue of seed of a woman .

King James 2000​

And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.

The he is Jesus and he will be the seed of the woman. Their is no man involved in the procreation of Jesus but He comes from the seed of a woman .

And what did God tell Abraham .
Genesis 22:18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice

Galatians 3
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

And what did the prophet Nathan tell to David in 2 Samuel 7 .

12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.

13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.

thy seed
Romans1
3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

Not only do we have seed in this verse but we have flesh also !

And in Acts13

22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave their testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.

23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

According to His promise of this man's seed .

Jesus was born of a seed of a woman , Mary . Mary and Jesus are genetically related .
Jesus the Son of man , Jesus the Son of David .

Boy you opened a little more a good thought.

King David had the history of man in his genes. So sin would appear in David’s life, but David would seek to turn off that sin tendency in his life.

Jesus managed to turn off temptation before sin manifested in heart or mind.

So
The best genetics of David (with evil turned off) and the no sin of the Holy Spirit were combined to beget Jesus.

hawkman you done Good.

eddif

 

[eddif]

And
To those who mentioned King David ealier, I did not miss those quotes. It took those quotes and time for it to all soak in.

eddif