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Is Jesus genetically related to Mary?

Hopeful 2 said:
Sin is not passed down to the next of kin, so-to-speak.
It is written..."The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him." (Ezek 18:20)
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Romans 5:13 kjv
13. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

I am well aware of the Ezekiel passage, and the scripture of teeth set on edge.

The soul that sins shall die, but not the one who resists the sin nature.

eddif
 
eddif said:
Romans 5:13 kjv
13. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

I am well aware of the Ezekiel passage, and the scripture of teeth set on edge.

The soul that sins shall die, but not the one who resists the sin nature.

eddif
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Resisting the sin nature, (which is of the old man who is destroyed at baptism into Christ's death), equates to sin free.
 
Hopeful 2 said:
the old man who is destroyed at baptism
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I do have a job for you.

1 Corinthians 15:52 kjv
52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

IMHO
Chapter 15 defines the Gospel and moves on to the Resurrection.

Changes happen at the Resurrection, that do not happen at our baptism.

IMHO sin no longer has dominion over us at our conversion, but it is all the way to the resurrection till we are what we shall be.

Regeneration (is that a religious word?) seems to happen at the resurrection.

Our states (is that an eddif word?)

Under dominion of sin
Aware of sin and Repent - Cry out for salvation
Baptized into Christ Jesus
Baptized into the Holy Spirit
Become a witness of Jesus (on our individual level).
IMHO we do not totally cease from every sin till the Resurrection.

Work up and resolve your explanation. Scripture and comments.

Mississippi redneck
eddif
 
Hi Hopeful 2
Hopeful 2 said:
The second "Adam" was born of a woman.
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You may be correct that it's death and not sin, but some of the commentaries I've read indicate that there is a sin nature that is passed down from generation to generation because of Adam's sin.

Benson's commentary:
Since the very essence of sin consists in the violation of a law. And consequently, since we see, in fact, that sin was imputed, we must conclude that the persons, to whose account it was charged, were under some law. Now this, with respect to infants, could not be the law of nature, (any more than the law of Moses,) for infants could not transgress that; it must therefore have been the law given to Adam, the transgression whereof is, in some sense, imputed to all, even to infants, he being the representative of all his posterity, and they all being in his loins. In other words, they do not die for any actual sins of their own, being incapable, while in infancy, of committing any, but through Adam’s sin alone.

Matthew Henry's commentary:
Adam sinning, his nature became guilty and corrupted, and so came to his children. Thus in him all have sinned. And death is by sin; for death is the wages of sin.

Anyway, the issue isn't that Jesus was birthed through the birth canal of Mary. The issue is whether the zygote of the human body of Jesus, as he began maturing in Mary's womb, was a fully formed and functioning zygote when the Holy Spirit did what he did to implant it to the wall of Mary's womb.

Did the Holy Spirit just somehow put sperm in Mary's abdomen that then entered into one of her eggs? Or, did the Holy Spirit implant a fully formed and ready to grow fertilized egg into Mary's womb that needed neither the sperm of Joseph nor the egg of Mary to begin its maturation to become the baby Jesus?

God bless,
Ted
 
eddif said:
I do have a job for you.
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I am retired from "jobs", thanks be to God.
But thanks for the offer.
eddif said:
1 Corinthians 15:52 kjv
52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
IMHO
Chapter 15 defines the Gospel and moves on to the Resurrection.
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Agreed
eddif said:
Changes happen at the Resurrection, that do not happen at our baptism.
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Agreed.
eddif said:
IMHO sin no longer has dominion over us at our conversion, but it is all the way to the resurrection till we are what we shall be.
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That was an incomplete sentence.
"...but it is all the way...", what is all the way?
At our conversion, we quit walking after the flesh and start walking after the Spirit.
That is, if our conversion included being reborn from God's seed.
Being in skin and bones has no bearing on who we serve.
eddif said:
Regeneration (is that a religious word?) seems to happen at the resurrection.
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It happens when we are "raised with Christ to walk in newness of life"
After we are water "immersed" into Christ and into His death and burial.
It is written..."Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life." (Rom 6:4)
BTW, regenerated means remade.
It is used in Titus 3:5..."Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;".
Again referring to the washing of baptism.
Regeneration, rebirth, new creature; all are the same thing
eddif said:
Our states (is that an eddif word?)
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"Conditions" may have been a better word, if you had added "...during our lives".
eddif said:
Under dominion of sin
Aware of sin and Repent - Cry out for salvation
Baptized into Christ Jesus
Baptized into the Holy Spirit
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I'ld say "baptized BY the Holy Ghost", but no big deal.
eddif said:
Become a witness of Jesus (on our individual level).
IMHO we do not totally cease from every sin till the Resurrection.
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If there is no cessation of sin, there was also no repentance from sin.
Repentance is a gift from God, an ability, or power, and must be permanent !
More sin betrays you as unregenerated, as you are still bringing forth the fruit of the devil's seed. (1 John 3:9-10)
eddif said:
Work up and resolve your explanation. Scripture and comments.

Mississippi redneck
eddif
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miamited said:
Hi Hopeful 2

You may be correct that it's death and not sin, but some of the commentaries I've read indicate that there is a sin nature that is passed down from generation to generation because of Adam's sin.

Benson's commentary:
Since the very essence of sin consists in the violation of a law. And consequently, since we see, in fact, that sin was imputed, we must conclude that the persons, to whose account it was charged, were under some law. Now this, with respect to infants, could not be the law of nature, (any more than the law of Moses,) for infants could not transgress that; it must therefore have been the law given to Adam, the transgression whereof is, in some sense, imputed to all, even to infants, he being the representative of all his posterity, and they all being in his loins. In other words, they do not die for any actual sins of their own, being incapable, while in infancy, of committing any, but through Adam’s sin alone.

Matthew Henry's commentary:
Adam sinning, his nature became guilty and corrupted, and so came to his children. Thus in him all have sinned. And death is by sin; for death is the wages of sin.

Anyway, the issue isn't that Jesus was birthed through the birth canal of Mary. The issue is whether the zygote of the human body of Jesus, as he began maturing in Mary's womb, was a fully formed and functioning zygote when the Holy Spirit did what he did to implant it to the wall of Mary's womb.

Did the Holy Spirit just somehow put sperm in Mary's abdomen that then entered into one of her eggs? Or, did the Holy Spirit implant a fully formed and ready to grow fertilized egg into Mary's womb that needed neither the sperm of Joseph nor the egg of Mary to begin its maturation to become the baby Jesus?

God bless,
Ted
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I would ignore the commentaries of men, and depend on the Holy Spirit to guide you.
Pray to God for an answer to your questions instead of relying on men of unknown spirit.
 
Hopeful 2 said:
I would ignore the commentaries of men, and depend on the Holy Spirit to guide you.
Pray to God for an answer to your questions instead of relying on men of unknown spirit.
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That is unbiblical, spiritually proud advice that gets people into a lot of trouble and erroneous theology. Do we depend on the Holy Spirit? Of course. But the way the Holy Spirit speaks to us and leads us most often is through others. That is why God gives pastors, teachers, and evangelists. Christians are called into community and that includes coming to understand the Bible in community, including what all those who have gone before us have to say.
 
Hopeful 2 said:
That was an incomplete sentence.
"...but it is all the way...", what is all the way?
At our conversion, we quit walking after the flesh and start walking after the Spirit.
That is, if our conversion included being reborn from God's seed.
Being in skin and bones has no bearing on who we serve.
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That incompleteness was on purpose.

2 Timothy 2:18
18. Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

We get rid of the dominion of sin at baptism, but we are a liar if we say we have no sin. No sin does not come till the last trump.
eddif said:
53. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
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The totality of who we will be awaits the last trump.

When water are spiritual baptism is seen on earth we are basically saying there is no sin in our life.

1 John 1:8 kjv
8. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Not eddif saying original words.

If we state we have no sin, then we are saying the Resurrection has already happened. Are we grieved about our sin? Yes.

If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
The total cleanse is at the last trump. LOL

Be I done said it enough times?

eddif
 
Hopeful 2 said:
I would ignore the commentaries of men, and depend on the Holy Spirit to guide you.
Pray to God for an answer to your questions instead of relying on men of unknown spirit.
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We hit a rough spot when we get to side notes.

The Jews take rabbinical notes as truth.
Gentile Christians take commentaries as truth.

My notes could be considered side notes. Always examine my comments.

The spiritual gifts are needed to get to the truth.

Mississippi redneck
eddif
 
SyrianMariam said:
Jesus was borne by Mary, but he was concieved by the Holy Spirit within Mary. Jesus is not genetically related to Joseph, is he genetically related to Mary?
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Yes, He is genetically related to Mary.
He was prophesied to be human.
And God.
The Divine came from the Holy Spirit and the human came from mom.
 
Free said:
That is unbiblical, spiritually proud advice that gets people into a lot of trouble and erroneous theology. Do we depend on the Holy Spirit? Of course. But the way the Holy Spirit speaks to us and leads us most often is through others. That is why God gives pastors, teachers, and evangelists. Christians are called into community and that includes coming to understand the Bible in community, including what all those who have gone before us have to say.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your opinion.
 
eddif said:
That incompleteness was on purpose.
2 Timothy 2:18
18. Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
Click to expand...
You seem to be awaiting the resurrection of the dead for your power to resist temptation.
That will be too late.
I got my power to resist from the gift of repentance and the destruction of the old man at my water baptism into Christ's death; from which I was raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.
eddif said:
We get rid of the dominion of sin at baptism, but we are a liar if we say we have no sin. No sin does not come till the last trump.
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You say the dominion of sin is gone at baptism, but then add you won't stop sinning until your resurrection.
That doesn't speak to the end of sin's dominion over you.
BTW, the ones who are lying if they say they have no sin are those who walk in sin/darkness.
Thank God we can walk in the light/God, in Whom is no sin.
eddif said:
The totality of who we will be awaits the last trump.
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We will be given a new body then, if we are sinless.
eddif said:
When water are spiritual baptism is seen on earth we are basically saying there is no sin in our life.
Click to expand...
I can't understand your presentation of that.
eddif said:
1 John 1:8 kjv
8. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
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If we are walking in sin, it would be a lie to say we have no sin.
But if we are walking in light/God, it is not a lie, as there is no sin in our God in Whom we walk.
eddif said:
Not eddif saying original words.
If we state we have no sin, then we are saying the Resurrection has already happened.
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No, we are not saying any such thing.
If we state we have no sin, it glorifies the God in Whom we walk. (1 John 1:7)
eddif said:
Are we grieved about our sin? Yes.
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If we are grieved with our sins, we will quit doing them.
Any other outcome manifests the sorrow of the world and equates to death, (2 Cor 7:10)
eddif said:
If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
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If we have been cleansed of ALL unrighteousness, that will allow us to say we have no sin...right ?
eddif said:
The total cleanse is at the last trump. LOL
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Were that the case, Jesus died in vain.
His blood washed away all my past sins, (1 John 1:7), and with a true repentance from sin, further sin will not occur.
eddif said:
Be I done said it enough times?

eddif
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Hopeful 2 said:
If we have been cleansed of ALL unrighteousness, that will allow us to say we have no sin...right ?
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It does seem to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:9 kjv
9. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

That verse does not specify when.

The last trump defines when.

Try another verse I may have missed.

Mississippi redneck
eddif
 
Hi jeremiah1five

Well, the argument seems to be that Mary must have had some genetic influence in the birth of Jesus because, otherwise, he wouldn't have been human. So I ask, how were Adam and Eve then humans if they weren't created from some previously existing human's DNA? If Adam and Ever were human, though obviously not formed from any previous DNA, although Eve did have a part of Adam's rib cage, then wouldn't it stand that Jesus could also be human while not having been created from some previous human DNA?

As I say, we don't any of us know the actual 'how' Jesus came to be implanted in Mary's womb, but I'm going to give credit that if God can make humans without using some previous human's DNA, then He 'could' have done that with Jesus. The 'coming over' of the Holy Spirit with Mary could just as well have been to implant an already fully formed zygote. Otherwise, it just gets kind of messy to me that the Holy Spirit only brought the male part of the equation, but apparently could not have provided the female part of the equation. How then was Jesus born a male, if there were no male chromosomes in his genetic makeup...only female?

But I fully admit that it's not something that God has made clear to us through the Scriptures, the 'how' Jesus came to be in Mary's womb other than to say that the Holy Spirit came over her. What did he actually do to affect the zygote of Jesus attached to her uterine wall, to then be born as any other human child is born. Which was necessary for the prophecy of the Scriptures to be true. The virgin will be with child! And it is merely an esoteric discussion of the possibilities of 'how' Jesus came to be implanted in Mary's womb and born unto us.

That's all.

God bless,
Ted
 
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