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John MacArthur: Continualists do not exist, everyone is a Cessationist or Inventionist

Deidr said:
emersongreenblog.wordpress.com

A Naturalistic Explanation of Glossolalia (Speaking in Tongues)

As is the case with literally everything else within Christianity, there isn’t widespread agreement about speaking in tongues, or glossolalia, as it’s known to psychologists and linguists. There’s …
emersongreenblog.wordpress.com emersongreenblog.wordpress.com
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Should a Christian be seeking God's truth on a site authored by someone who's next post ,after the one you supplied, is "Why I am An atheist " ? What was it like when you attended a Pentecostal church Deidr ?
 
hawkman said:
Should a Christian be seeking God's truth on a site authored by someone who's next post ,after the one you supplied, is "Why I am An atheist " ? What was it like when you attended a Pentecostal church Deidr ?
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Hi, I was looking at the research...not the man that quoted it.
We send our children to schools whose teachers are worse than an Athiest.
 
hawkman said:
Should a Christian be seeking God's truth on a site authored by someone who's next post ,after the one you supplied, is "Why I am An atheist " ? What was it like when you attended a Pentecostal church Deidr ?
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It doesn't require Sherlock Holmes to conclude why Pentecostals haven't published a study by genuine Linguists that 100% prove tongues are real language.

They can't because it isn't a real language.

It may be an atheist running the site, but the linguist studies are from published books and articles not connected to atheists.

I found the information very interesting, touching on aspects I never thought of.

It confirms what a former tongues speaking "prophet" once told me, what he and many did while "speaking in tongues" or "prophesying", was self-generated, not from demons:

"How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Indeed they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart, (Jer. 23:26 NKJ)

At Abebooks I found a used copy of "Tongues of Men and Angels: The Religious Language of Pentecostalism", by William J Samarin , for $33. On Amazon the price was over $500. Its considered a classic study, but the article cited other resources not in that book. Its a "keeper".
 
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Alfred Persson said:
It doesn't require Sherlock Holmes to conclude why Pentecostals haven't published a study by genuine Linguists that 100% prove tongues are real language.

They can't because it isn't a real language.

It may be an atheist running the site, but the linguist studies are from published books and articles not connected to atheists.
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One can also make a case that..Christians are all on this site...and many don't teach what scripture says....mmmmm Just saying
 
Deidr said:
I had a teacher that was an Athiest and proved to himself their was A God...He's a pastor now...
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It happens. I was raised secular although my parents were nominal Lutherans. School teaches evolution, not God. As I radicalized I began spouting the usual Marxist dribble about religion, "its a crutch for the weak!"

Upon reading some good arguments for Creationism, I decided to read the Bible. The power of God's Word gripped me, I couldn't put it down. Read it cover to cover and then more. Still has supernatural power to me, even more now that I became a Christian, it was the only rational thing to do.
 
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Alfred Persson said:
Incorrect.

He denies modern apostles and prophets are the same at the NT versions.

He rejects the claim modern versions are a "continuation" of what existed in the 1st century in the pages of the New Testament, because they are different.

To illustrate his argument:

A coin expert disputes the claim a Modern $1 silver plated coin is the same pure silver $1 coin used by the Colonialists.

Modern silver plating didn't exist in 1776 proves them different.

Different construction proves the modern silver-plated coin is NOT a "continuation" of a pure silver coin used by the Colonialists.

The Coin Expert is not "anti-Capitalist, anti-American, AntiColonialist, AntiMoney, AntiCoin, AntiSilver, or anti-anything".

He demands "truth in advertising".

If you want him to buy your burger, it better be a real burger.

  • they believe in tongues that aren't languages whereas clearly in the New Testament they were languages.
  • they believe in miracles that aren't necessarily like the miracles Jesus and the apostles did.
  • and they say that they believe in revelation divine revelation but not infallible revelation.
So they have miracles that aren't the same as the New Testament, tongues that aren't the same as the New Testament, tongues prophecies that aren't the same as the New Testament prophecies, that's not continuation that is cessation and inventing something else.
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What God began in the first century, specifically on the Day of Pentecost continues today. Apostles, prophets, tongues both in earthly languages and heavenly language(s) continues today. I have first hand knowledge of tongues and of interpretation.
AND if someone gives a prophecy it matters not whether it is earthly language or of heaven. The interpreter who steps out in faith to interpret into the local language (but this is not set in stone) does not necessarily have to know the language but gives the interpretation through the unction from the Holy Spirit. All he/she has to do is SPEAK what is within them.
 
jeremiah1five said:
What God began in the first century, specifically on the Day of Pentecost continues today. Apostles, prophets, tongues both in earthly languages and heavenly language(s) continues today. I have first hand knowledge of tongues and of interpretation.
AND if someone gives a prophecy it matters not whether it is earthly language or of heaven. The interpreter who steps out in faith to interpret into the local language (but this is not set in stone) does not necessarily have to know the language but gives the interpretation through the unction from the Holy Spirit. All he/she has to do is SPEAK what is within them.
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You are entitled to your opinion. If you want my agreement, you must prove from the scriptures its the same thing.

As MacArthur points out, you can't.

So I won't.
 
Deidr said:
Hi, I was looking at the research...not the man that quoted it.
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Sometimes who provides the information tells you more than the information itself .
Deidr said:
We send our children to schools whose teachers are worse than an Athiest.
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Please tell me who "We" is in this sentence ? There are choices like home schooling and Christian schools .
 
Alfred Persson said:
It may be an atheist running the site, but the linguist studies are from published books and articles not connected to atheists.

I found the information very interesting, touching on aspects I never thought of.
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Praise God you don't have the thoughts of an atheist !
 
Alfred Persson said:
From Frame 5:15

The Pastor says:

"I think the argument is when you read the chapter and you see how unique the apostles were and when they passed away what finality that was; that defines cessationism when you cease to have apostles you cease to have the signs that were unique to the apostles. So when someone says he's Cessationist…[he doesn't] mean the Holy Spirit ceased to work or Christ ceased to work. I only mean that the things that attended the apostles have ceased when the apostles ceased." -John MacArthur

"One of the arguments I've made is that every charismatic except the really bizarre quirky ones if you take the better charismatics the ones whose theology are more on the sound end of the spectrum they're all Cessationists as well because and in fact they would admit this. Wayne grudem says contemporary prophecy the prophecies we're hearing today are fallible; everybody would acknowledge that the tongues people speak today are not like the tongues at Pentecost, they're not translatable languages. So clearly something has changed and unless you want to deny that you've embraced the kind of cessationism." - Interviewer

[John MaCarthur resumes]
"Yeah you just put your finger on what I think is the knockout punch in the final chapter of the book. The last chapter is an open letter to my continuationist friends---and my continuation friends are my friends even friends theologically in many cases, and they want to be continuationist. But in that chapter and exactly what Phil said is the case:

  • they believe in tongues that aren't languages whereas clearly in the New Testament they were languages.
  • they believe in miracles that aren't necessarily like the miracles Jesus and the apostles did.
  • and they say that they believe in revelation divine revelation but not infallible revelation.
So they have miracles that aren't the same as the New Testament, miracles terms that aren't the same as the New Testament, tongues prophecies that aren't the same as the New Testament prophecies, that's not continuation that is cessation and inventing something else.

So we need to come up with a new name for them you know they are "inventionists". I don't know what but that that is not a continuity--- once you say it's not what was then you're not really a continuationist. So I try to back them into a corner and make them admit that they're not really continuationist but rather they're guilty of putting the stamp of divine approval and labeling the work of the Holy Spirit on things that have no biblical parallel."-John MacArthur
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More nonsense using no scripture.


Please show us where in scripture that we are taught the Promise of the Father to all His children has ceased?

  • He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father

And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:4-5






JLB
 
hawkman said:
Sometimes who provides the information tells you more than the information itself .

Please tell me who "We" is in this sentence ? There are choices like home schooling and Christian schools .
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Research Christian Children in public schools with non Christian teachers.
It doesn't really matter because I did not seek out an atheist for information.
Now if a Christian got the same information He did...then what? It does not stop others that are non Christian from speaking in "tongue" nor the psychologist from giving their findings.
What one should be concerned with is the information He presented. That would be sad if that is one of the reason He became an Athiest.
That He realized what He was taught by Christians about tongues was not true.
 
I believe God can give any gift He wants when He wants. But there are thing I saw that didn't set well with scriptures. One day I went to a Baptist church and the preacher was urging everyone to speak in their prayer language all at once.....And I did not see that in scriptures.
So we left that church.
 
Deidr said:
I believe God can give any gift He wants when He wants.
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Yes , true .
Deidr said:
But there are thing I saw that didn't set well with scriptures. One day I went to a Baptist church and the preacher was urging everyone to speak in their prayer language all at once.....And I did not see that in scriptures.
So we left that church.
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After the invitation to pray in tongues like that , no way would I . That is not the way it is done in proper order .

Did you share the Bible verses with the preacher that indicate the proper order of speaking in tongues ? He needed to be told that . He needed correction .
 
Deidr said:
I believe God can give any gift He wants when He wants. But there are thing I saw that didn't set well with scriptures. One day I went to a Baptist church and the preacher was urging everyone to speak in their prayer language all at once.....And I did not see that in scriptures.
So we left that church.
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I agree, God can do anything anytime He wants. I also agree anything that contradicts scripture, isn't the same thing we see in Scripture, is not from God.

That was one of the reasons why I know the vision I had going to third heaven, was not of God.

I KNEW I was "out of the body", but when Paul went to third heaven, he didn't know:

2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago-- whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows-- such a one was caught up to the third heaven.
3 And I know such a man-- whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows--
4 how he was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. (2 Cor. 12:2-4 NKJ)

Any sign or wonder that is different than what we see in the Bible is not of God.

I AM ETERNALLY GRATEFUL TO God the Holy Spirit for causing me to remember God's command we "test the spirits", because when I asked the "glorious being of light" to confess Jesus Christ came in the flesh, its disguise dropped and I saw its evil exposed.

Otherwise, I might have become one of the "many false prophets" John warns about (1 John 4:1-4).

endtimenews.net

Test The Spirits in Dreams Visions Abductions | End Time News

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.(1 Jn. 4:1 NKJ) I had an "out of body" experience where the illusion I had traveled to heaven was very real, but Scripture implies Demons can "download" a...
endtimenews.net
 
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jeremiah1five said:
What God began in the first century, specifically on the Day of Pentecost continues today. Apostles, prophets, tongues both in earthly languages and heavenly language(s) continues today. I have first hand knowledge of tongues and of interpretation.
AND if someone gives a prophecy it matters not whether it is earthly language or of heaven. The interpreter who steps out in faith to interpret into the local language (but this is not set in stone) does not necessarily have to know the language but gives the interpretation through the unction from the Holy Spirit. All he/she has to do is SPEAK what is within them.
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Are you a prophet? That seems to be implied by "jeremiah1five"

5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations." (Jer. 1:5 NKJ)
 
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