John MacArthur: Continualists do not exist, everyone is a Cessationist or Inventionist

[hawkman]

Edit: Being born again is an internal, and entirely subjective experience. Otherwise, please post the video of someone being baptized and something supernatural occuring. Yes, it's a miracle to the one receiving it, but it's not like calling down fire from heaven to torch the Baal priests' altar.

Being born again IS a supernatural event in the person , yes or no ? Baptism has no bearing .

 

[Just_Michael]

Being born again is a subjective event. Period.
I cannot tell from looking at you physically whether or not you've been born again without you telling me. Yes, you can show me by your actions over a long range of time. I speak of objective truth in the immediate.

Are you saying that being born again is somehow objectively equivalent to Elijah calling down fire? When Elijah called down fire from the heavens, it was instant, it was blatantly apparent to all who witnessed it, and it was undeniable. Someone being born again can be argued away whereas having a pillar of fire show up on your front lawn next to your Toyota is undeniable to all who witness it.

So, it all depends on what you're seeking. If you are seeking objective truth as I am, then the subjectivity of other miracles such as internal change does not satisfy. Since God is obviously not going to simply appear at my whim, I must seek that objective truth in the form of scientific inquiry and observation. In order to satisfy that, the miracles must be repeatable, obeservable to all, and leave no possibility of other explanations (such as coincidence). Jesus walking across the surface of the lake is objectively miraculous; it's not a question of interpretation or perception. It's apparent on its face that Christ was violating physical laws that we know exist. That's what makes it supernatural. The act of someone being born again, while no less a miracle, is entirely subjective with no way to truly measure in the immediate frame of reference whether or not it's true.

Once more:
Objective: Observable by all, measurable, and repeatable. Examples: Moses parting the Red Sea. The Ark of the Covenant discharging massive amounts of electrical current into Uzziah and vaporizing him. Aaron causing the sun to stop in the sky. Elijah calling down fireballs from heaven to vaporize Baal worshippers, and their ridiculous "altar."
Subjective: Not-observable, internal, not measurable or repeatable, not measurable in the immediate frame of reference, explainable by other circumstances or factors. Examples: Being born again, weird coincidences that come about right when you need, avoiding disaster because you made an odd choice earlier in the day, etc.

Using that rubric, there are no miraculous Gifts of the Holy Spirit occuring objectively today, or Foxweiser would be all over it and broadcasting it day and night to distract from their ratings being in the toilet since Tucker Carlson left. However, there are other gifts that are more subjective such as dreams, but even those should be carefully questioned as Daniel had to not only interpret the dreams of Nebuchadnezzar, he had to first tell the king what they were to ensure he was truly a prophet of God. That was the measuring rod to determine what was truly given by God as a sign.

 

[donadams]

Being born again IS a supernatural event in the person , yes or no ? Baptism has no bearing .

Jn 3:5 what’s the water for?

 

[donadams]

The Christian sacrament* of baptismal regeneration is required for the new covenant and salvation!

*this promise acts 2:38-39 is a sacred oath from God ez 36:25-27 and a sacred oath is a sacrament!

Initiation!!!


Faith & Baptism is the initiation of the new and eternal covenant!

You cannot enter on you’re own or by “faith alone”!

You cannot receive Christ or grace by “faith alone”!

“Accept Christ as you’re personal lord and savior” is fundamentalist tradition not found scripture!

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Baptismal regeneration a new creation in Christ! 2 Cor 5:17

A sacrament is an oath! A sacred promise from God! Ez 36:25-27
Acts 2:38-39 (this promise)

No baptism no grace!

A sacrament is an outward sign for all men including infants And a gift from God to help us see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!

As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!

without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!

Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!

Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!

They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “

They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22

A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!

Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.

Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.

Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.

You cannot enter on you’re own or by faith alone!

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,


Baptism!

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!



Christ instituted the holy church for the salvation of all men, (repent and believe the gospel, with the institution of the sacraments to convey grace to sanctify souls!


Effects of faith & baptism!

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!

Faith and baptism!

Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!

 

[Alfred Persson]

Or...it's simply that God gave us physcial faculties to look at the mechanics of the universe, and then conduct introspection on what we have seen as we internalize it. Introspection is based on external knowledge; therefore, if your "learned" wisdom is wrong, your introspection will be wrong. Since as Christians we start with the Bible, our learned wisdom is that of God, whereby we then attempt to make sense out of what we see. Introspection doesn't just spring into being; it must be triggered by external knowledge being internalized.

This method has worked for countless scientists like Neils Bohr, Isaac Newton, and Einstein himself, as well as David Bohm, Thomas Townsend Brown and Nikola Tesla.

None of that discounts the existence of the supernatural or the existence of the Gifts of the Spirit, or why there is a lack of such objective experiences. And what do I mean by a lack of objective experiences? I am reminded of the dozens of people who gather in UFO hotspots to watch as lights dance about the sky in a way that violates are deepest understanding of physics. That is objective and undeniable. It is on the same level as Jesus walking across water in front of thousands of people gathered on the shore of Galilee. Those are the supernatural gifts we no longer see--unless you've seen someone walking on water and you're just not telling us...?

Such a day is coming, however, when we're all going to see signs that are objectively and undeniably supernatural, but that still doesn't mean it cannot be explained by science; it just cannot be explained by our current understanding of science. God's mathematics and formulae used to create the universe are bound to be so incomprehensible to us that it sounds like foolishness, but His truth is undeniable. I was created by God with the curiosity and love of discovery specifically so that I could gloriy God each time more is revealed to me through my five senses and interpreted through the wisdom of the Word, and I love learning new things about the universe because it is endlessly fascinating to me.

I'm sure the reason why we don't see more objectively supernatural gifts is multi-faceted because that's how all of nature operates. The leaf doesn't just provide chlorophyll, it provides shade for the roots, food for bugs, fertilizer for the soil, and oxygen to the phloem, and likely dozens of more benefits as well. Therefore, God must also have multiple reasons for doing what He does in His own time that are beyond our immediate understanding. God, being a master engineer, would strive for efficiency in energy transfer--getting the most done with the least amount of effort, despite being omnipotent. Just because one is omnipotent doesn't mean one is a profligate expender of energy. We are created in the image of God, and it is likely that just as we like to get the most bang for our buck out of every moment of the day, God likely does, too, and that's where we get it from. So the reason we don't see supernatural gifts any more is likely for a variety of reasons, not simply because the Holy Spirit no longer needs to manifest thusly, and we'll have to wait for the reason until He deigns to tell us (and He will in time because God is not the author of confusion). All things work towards the good will of God.

Now, if you can show me anything unbiblical in the above, I will gladly seek understanding and correction. However, this is what I have been able to deduce in the course of my life, and I'm humbly glad to be able to say, I'm not finished learning yet because the majesty of God is infinite.

Edit: Being born again is an internal, and entirely subjective experience. Otherwise, please post the video of someone being baptized and something supernatural occuring. Yes, it's a miracle to the one receiving it, but it's not like calling down fire from heaven to torch the Baal priests' altar.

6 Your own mouth condemns you, and not I; Yes, your own lips testify against you.
7 "Are you the first man who was born? Or were you made before the hills?
8 Have you heard the counsel of God? Do you limit wisdom to yourself?
9 What do you know that we do not know? What do you understand that is not in us? (Job 15:6-9 NKJ)

You greatly overestimate the intellectual capacity of man. "Scientists like Neils Bohr, Isaac Newton, and Einstein himself, as well as David Bohm, Thomas Townsend Brown and Nikola Tesla" have a small group of facts they ponder, not the infinity of the universe.

I love logic, and am indebted to the Greeks for defining it. But few premises can be scientifically tested, and as God's "ways are past finding out", we need Him to reveal Himself to us:

O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! (Rom. 11:33 KJV)

In the future you should "reply" to me, otherwise I might miss your response. Then the Board notifies me.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Brother Alfred Persson , we go around and around on the Gifts of the Holy Spirit . How I would like to sit across a table from you and tell you what my life is like . There are many things that have happened of a revealing of God's supernatural power (and yes it is things I have read of in the bible) I will NOT share on the internet , maybe it will come time to in the future .

We differ there. I expose the various ways Satan tempts to sin (bodily sensations hot cold electricity; telepathic voice dreams visions, feelings of a "holy presence") to warn:

Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices. (2 Cor. 2:11 KJV)

Test The Spirits in Dreams Visions Abductions | End Time News

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.(1 Jn. 4:1 NKJ) I had an "out of body" experience where the illusion I had traveled to heaven was very real, but Scripture implies Demons can "download" a...

endtimenews.net

 

[Alfred Persson]

Jn 3:5 what’s the water for?

3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. (Rom. 6:3-4 NKJ)

There is also an antitype which now saves us-- baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, (1 Pet. 3:21 NKJ)

 

[donadams]

Also fake or theoretical science is constantly in error by their own admission, just read any science journal or paper, scientists now believe … so they were wrong in what they formally believed, and it’s faith based, all theories and no facts

 

[Alfred Persson]

According to scripture we still have apostles Matt 28:19-20

No, the Twelve have gone to be with the LORD.

 

[donadams]

3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. (Rom. 6:3-4 NKJ)

There is also an antitype which now saves us-- baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, (1 Pet. 3:21 NKJ)

I agree baptism is necessary for salvation, I was replying to hawkman

 

[donadams]

No, the Twelve have gone to be with the LORD.

Who says there are only 12?
Christ said to his apostles “I am with you till the end of the world”. Matt 28:19 more to follow

 

[donadams]

The church is an extension of Christ!

The scripture says many of the same things of the apostles (the church) as Christ!

Light of the world: Jn 8:12 / Matt 5:14
Hear: Matt 17:5 / Matt 18:17
Authority: Matt 28:17 / Jn 20:21
Reconciliation: 2 cor 5:19 / 2 cor 5:18
Forgive sins: Lk 5:20 / Jn 20:23

Truth: Jn 14:6 / 1 Tim 3:15


Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles! The apostles have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, so I send you!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles!
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1

The pillar and foundation of TRUTH!
1 Tim 3:15

The TWO EDGE SWORD!
To proclaim the truth! Matt 28:19
To condemn error! 1 cor 16:22

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Jn 1:16-17) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9;4 Jn 15:1 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13) Thru the grace of God in the sanctification of souls applied in the seven sacraments!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42
1 Tim 3:15

 

[hawkman]

The Christian sacrament* of baptismal regeneration is required for the new covenant and salvation!

*this promise acts 2:38-39 is a sacred oath from God ez 36:25-27 and a sacred oath is a sacrament!

Initiation!!!


Faith & Baptism is the initiation of the new and eternal covenant!

You cannot enter on you’re own or by “faith alone”!

You cannot receive Christ or grace by “faith alone”!

“Accept Christ as you’re personal lord and savior” is fundamentalist tradition not found scripture!

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Baptismal regeneration a new creation in Christ! 2 Cor 5:17

A sacrament is an oath! A sacred promise from God! Ez 36:25-27
Acts 2:38-39 (this promise)

No baptism no grace!

A sacrament is an outward sign for all men including infants And a gift from God to help us see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!

As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!

without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!

Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!

Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!

They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “

They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22

A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!

Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.

Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.

Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.

You cannot enter on you’re own or by faith alone!

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,


Baptism!

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!



Christ instituted the holy church for the salvation of all men, (repent and believe the gospel, with the institution of the sacraments to convey grace to sanctify souls!


Effects of faith & baptism!

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!

Faith and baptism!

Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!

Without faith , baptism is bath .

 

[hawkman]

No, the Twelve have gone to be with the LORD.

Was Paul an apostle ? I have wondered who could be considered an apostle , Barnabas too ?
Modern day apostle ? Why muddy the water , why not just say you are a follower of Jesus , works for me .

 

[Alfred Persson]

Was Paul an apostle ? I have wondered who could be considered an apostle , Barnabas too ?
Modern day apostle ? Why muddy the water , why not just say you are a follower of Jesus , works for me .

It is a bit confused, Matthias numbered with the 12 by lot (Ac. 1:26) and Paul did see Christ on the road to Damascus (Ac. 9:3). Those apostles could write scripture, no one today can do that.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Who says there are only 12?
Christ said to his apostles “I am with you till the end of the world”. Matt 28:19 more to follow

Christ is with us, not apostles.

 

[hawkman]

Those apostles could write scripture, no one today can do that.

If today God told you to write down words wouldn't that be scripture ? Not saying He will but the possibility exists .

 

[donadams]

Without faith , baptism is bath .

Faith and baptism yes
Faith alone never!

 

[donadams]

Without apostles there is no church!
Eph 2:20

Teaching authority of the Apostles and their successors founded in the one true church by Jesus Christ!

Jesus Christ is the head of the church, (eph 5:23) the body of Christ,
(col 1:18) the new and eternal covenant, (pre-figured Jer 31:31) (Heb 8:8) new covenant replaces the Mosaic covenant, (Heb 8:13) holy mother church replaced Israel Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Christ replaces David as king, (Lk 1:32-33) Jesus Christ is the only mediator between God and men, (1 Tim 2:5 & Heb 12:24) but a mediator remains on earth mediating between God and His people, but Christ ascended to heaven, (acts 1) before He did He founded His church, on Peter, and the apostles, and their successors!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 2:42 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

Apostolic succession: apostles must remain till Christ returns Matt 28:19-20



Authority of the Apostles!

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission!

Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well until Christ returns in glory!

apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!

Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments for the forgiveness of sin.

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

 

[donadams]

Was Paul an apostle ? I have wondered who could be considered an apostle , Barnabas too ?
Modern day apostle ? Why muddy the water , why not just say you are a follower of Jesus , works for me .

Spiritual anarchy don’t work for anyone, you not ordained