lest ye should be wise in your own conceits...

[Eventide]

So who is teaching believers today that the church of God is Israel ?

We have a person teaching this over in the Apologetics Forum..

Why ?

 

[Ryan]

So who is teaching believers today that the church of God is Israel ?

We have a person teaching this over in the Apologetics Forum..

Why ?

I had no idea this thread was even here. As I already pointed out in "Is Dispensationalism Darwinism?" in God's eyes, Israel is only those who belief in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob revealed through his Son Jesus. [MENTION=47381]reba[/MENTION] made such an important point on the previous page about who got the birthright. It was the 2nd son. God is making such an important point here that is foundational for the rest of scriptures. The birthright was not based on anything physical, it was based on faithfulness.

Genesis 22:2
He said, “Take now your son, your only son, whom you love, Isaac, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I will tell you.”

How many physical sons did Abraham at this time? Did he not have Ishmael as well? So then why did God tell him to take his only son? It was because in God's eyes, his son is the one who has the "seed of faith" in them, not the physical seed. If Ishmael had the seed of faith in him, he would have received the birthright, but he was a wild donkey of a man. This is played out after this so we get the idea that God only calls his own who believe in him. This is foundational so when we get to the Gospels, we know what is being played out. So when we get to the Pharisees in Luke 3:8, God is no respector of persons and what does it matter if you are of the physical lineage of Abraham he is saying? It means nothing, unless you believed in Jesus. IMO

 

[John 8:32]

So who is teaching believers today that the church of God is Israel ?

We have a person teaching this over in the Apologetics Forum..

Why ?

I had no idea this thread was even here. As I already pointed out in "Is Dispensationalism Darwinism?" in God's eyes, Israel is only those who belief in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob revealed through his Son Jesus. [MENTION=47381]reba[/MENTION] made such an important point on the previous page about who got the birthright. It was the 2nd son. God is making such an important point here that is foundational for the rest of scriptures. The birthright was not based on anything physical, it was based on faithfulness.

Genesis 22:2
He said, “Take now your son, your only son, whom you love, Isaac, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I will tell you.”

How many physical sons did Abraham at this time? Did he not have Ishmael as well? So then why did God tell him to take his only son? It was because in God's eyes, his son is the one who has the "seed of faith" in them, not the physical seed. If Ishmael had the seed of faith in him, he would have received the birthright, but he was a wild donkey of a man. This is played out after this so we get the idea that God only calls his own who believe in him. This is foundational so when we get to the Gospels, we know what is being played out. So when we get to the Pharisees in Luke 3:8, God is no respector of persons and what does it matter if you are of the physical lineage of Abraham he is saying? It means nothing, unless you believed in Jesus. IMO

Excellent understanding Ryan my friend.

 

[Ryan]

Hey [MENTION=88954]John 8:32[/MENTION] You know, my thoughts about this topic has evolved over time based on scripture. We are either in Covenant with him, or out of Covenant. Those are the only two statuses we have with God. We are either his, or we are not. Pretty simple. In the simplicity of it, God did not design his Word to be confusing. We, including myself, butcher it up at times and makes it sound what we want it to make it say. Could my position on this change over time? Possibly, but I know beyond a shadow of a doubt, there is no difference with believing Israel (you and I), and the Church (you and I).

 

[Ryan]

P.S. There is only one Renewed Covenant in Jeremiah 31 and Hebrews 8 that is only with the House of Judah and the House of Israel. Someone please show me a scripture that says in the same covenant language another covenant with a separate entity called the church. One cannot find it. If you think there is another covenant with "the church" separate from the covenant with Israel, one cannot find it. It takes a twisting of scriptures, and a dispensational twist to it to come up with that conclusion.

 

[Deborah13]

So who is teaching believers today that the church of God is Israel ?

We have a person teaching this over in the Apologetics Forum..

Why ?

I had no idea this thread was even here. As I already pointed out in "Is Dispensationalism Darwinism?" in God's eyes, Israel is only those who belief in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob revealed through his Son Jesus. [MENTION=47381]reba[/MENTION] made such an important point on the previous page about who got the birthright. It was the 2nd son. God is making such an important point here that is foundational for the rest of scriptures. The birthright was not based on anything physical, it was based on faithfulness.

Genesis 22:2
He said, “Take now your son, your only son, whom you love, Isaac, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I will tell you.”

How many physical sons did Abraham at this time? Did he not have Ishmael as well? So then why did God tell him to take his only son? It was because in God's eyes, his son is the one who has the "seed of faith" in them, not the physical seed. If Ishmael had the seed of faith in him, he would have received the birthright, but he was a wild donkey of a man. This is played out after this so we get the idea that God only calls his own who believe in him. This is foundational so when we get to the Gospels, we know what is being played out. So when we get to the Pharisees in Luke 3:8, God is no respector of persons and what does it matter if you are of the physical lineage of Abraham he is saying? It means nothing, unless you believed in Jesus. IMO

Very well said, Ryan. Thank you.

 

[reba]

Dispy or dispensationalist is not a bad word or bad label

Futurist is not a bad word or bad label

preterist is not a bad word or bad label

post triber is not a bad word or bad label

pre triber is not a bad word or bad label

mid triber is not a bad word or bad label

We are all one in the Lord these are just some of the descriptive words we use....

My views on ET have changed over the years I am as saved now as I was then.....


2.4: No Trolling. Do not make an inflammatory remark just to get a response. Address issues not personalities. Respect where people are in their spiritual walk, and respect all others in general. Respect where others are in their spiritual walk, do not disrupt the flow of discussion or act in a way that affects others negatively including when debating doctrinal issues, in the defense of the Christian faith, and in offering unwelcome spiritual advice.

Not necessarily directed at the last poster.

 

[Deborah13]

P.S. There is only one Renewed Covenant in Jeremiah 31 and Hebrews 8 that is only with the House of Judah and the House of Israel. Someone please show me a scripture that says in the same covenant language another covenant with a separate entity called the church. One cannot find it. If you think there is another covenant with "the church" separate from the covenant with Israel, one cannot find it. It takes a twisting of scriptures, and a dispensational twist to it to come up with that conclusion.

Once again, I agree. That covenant made with Abraham and his Seed. Not of many seeds, but One Seed, and the is Jesus the Christ. All those of the body of Christ are His seed by faith.
If I worded that incorrectly please feel free to comment.

 

[jasoncran]

So who is teaching believers today that the church of God is Israel ?

We have a person teaching this over in the Apologetics Forum..

Why ?

I had no idea this thread was even here. As I already pointed out in "Is Dispensationalism Darwinism?" in God's eyes, Israel is only those who belief in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob revealed through his Son Jesus. [MENTION=47381]reba[/MENTION] made such an important point on the previous page about who got the birthright. It was the 2nd son. God is making such an important point here that is foundational for the rest of scriptures. The birthright was not based on anything physical, it was based on faithfulness.

Genesis 22:2
He said, “Take now your son, your only son, whom you love, Isaac, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I will tell you.”

How many physical sons did Abraham at this time? Did he not have Ishmael as well? So then why did God tell him to take his only son? It was because in God's eyes, his son is the one who has the "seed of faith" in them, not the physical seed. If Ishmael had the seed of faith in him, he would have received the birthright, but he was a wild donkey of a man. This is played out after this so we get the idea that God only calls his own who believe in him. This is foundational so when we get to the Gospels, we know what is being played out. So when we get to the Pharisees in Luke 3:8, God is no respector of persons and what does it matter if you are of the physical lineage of Abraham he is saying? It means nothing, unless you believed in Jesus. IMO

actually jesus if Rueben didn't sin would have been from the line Rueben not Judah. Judah wasn't Jacob's firstborn either neither was the son of Judah as his sons died.

 

[Eventide]

So who is teaching believers today that the church of God is Israel ?

We have a person teaching this over in the Apologetics Forum..

Why ?

I had no idea this thread was even here. As I already pointed out in "Is Dispensationalism Darwinism?" in God's eyes, Israel is only those who belief in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob revealed through his Son Jesus. [MENTION=47381]reba[/MENTION] made such an important point on the previous page about who got the birthright. It was the 2nd son. God is making such an important point here that is foundational for the rest of scriptures. The birthright was not based on anything physical, it was based on faithfulness.

Genesis 22:2
He said, “Take now your son, your only son, whom you love, Isaac, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I will tell you.â€

How many physical sons did Abraham at this time? Did he not have Ishmael as well? So then why did God tell him to take his only son? It was because in God's eyes, his son is the one who has the "seed of faith" in them, not the physical seed. If Ishmael had the seed of faith in him, he would have received the birthright, but he was a wild donkey of a man. This is played out after this so we get the idea that God only calls his own who believe in him. This is foundational so when we get to the Gospels, we know what is being played out. So when we get to the Pharisees in Luke 3:8, God is no respector of persons and what does it matter if you are of the physical lineage of Abraham he is saying? It means nothing, unless you believed in Jesus. IMO

And what does any of this have to do with your claim that the church of God is Israel ?

You ignored it in the other thread, so here you go again...

If there is neither Jew or Gentile IN CHRIST, then why (according to you Ryan) am I an Israelite ?

 

[Eventide]

While you're here Ryan, perhaps you can enlighten us to your views on eschatology...

 

[Ryan]

While you're here Ryan, perhaps you can enlighten us to your views on eschatology...

My views are this, while the future is not completely clear, and for all we know Jesus may not be coming back for another generation, what I do know is my family is burning, my friends are burning, my co-workers are burning, my city, province, country as well are going down the tubes and I am supposed to take my time why you are part of the commonwealth of Israel when you don't even care, or don't even want to be associated with anything Israel, earthly or heavenly. That is completely fine with me. All I know is people all around me are burning before my eyes and they continue to eat, drink and giving into marriage not having a care of the afterlife. The earth is literally vomiting us up before our eyes due to wickedness, and as we await his coming, we continue to be silent on sin, immorality and a calling of nations to repent, yet we bicker back and forth whether we are Israel. I am just as guilty of that as the next person, so I am including myself as well. Fine, don't call yourself Israel, I will do so proudly. "Hear O Israel, the LORD OUR GOD, the LORD is one."

 

[Ryan]

So who is teaching believers today that the church of God is Israel ?

We have a person teaching this over in the Apologetics Forum..

Why ?

I had no idea this thread was even here. As I already pointed out in "Is Dispensationalism Darwinism?" in God's eyes, Israel is only those who belief in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob revealed through his Son Jesus. @reba made such an important point on the previous page about who got the birthright. It was the 2nd son. God is making such an important point here that is foundational for the rest of scriptures. The birthright was not based on anything physical, it was based on faithfulness.

Genesis 22:2
He said, “Take now your son, your only son, whom you love, Isaac, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I will tell you.â€

How many physical sons did Abraham at this time? Did he not have Ishmael as well? So then why did God tell him to take his only son? It was because in God's eyes, his son is the one who has the "seed of faith" in them, not the physical seed. If Ishmael had the seed of faith in him, he would have received the birthright, but he was a wild donkey of a man. This is played out after this so we get the idea that God only calls his own who believe in him. This is foundational so when we get to the Gospels, we know what is being played out. So when we get to the Pharisees in Luke 3:8, God is no respector of persons and what does it matter if you are of the physical lineage of Abraham he is saying? It means nothing, unless you believed in Jesus. IMO

And what does any of this have to do with your claim that the church of God is Israel ?

You ignored it in the other thread, so here you go again...

If there is neither Jew or Gentile IN CHRIST, then why (according to you Ryan) am I an Israelite ?

See above.

God bless

 

[Eventide]

So who is teaching believers today that the church of God is Israel ?

We have a person teaching this over in the Apologetics Forum..

Why ?

I had no idea this thread was even here. As I already pointed out in "Is Dispensationalism Darwinism?" in God's eyes, Israel is only those who belief in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob revealed through his Son Jesus. @reba made such an important point on the previous page about who got the birthright. It was the 2nd son. God is making such an important point here that is foundational for the rest of scriptures. The birthright was not based on anything physical, it was based on faithfulness.

Genesis 22:2
He said, “Take now your son, your only son, whom you love, Isaac, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I will tell you.â€

How many physical sons did Abraham at this time? Did he not have Ishmael as well? So then why did God tell him to take his only son? It was because in God's eyes, his son is the one who has the "seed of faith" in them, not the physical seed. If Ishmael had the seed of faith in him, he would have received the birthright, but he was a wild donkey of a man. This is played out after this so we get the idea that God only calls his own who believe in him. This is foundational so when we get to the Gospels, we know what is being played out. So when we get to the Pharisees in Luke 3:8, God is no respector of persons and what does it matter if you are of the physical lineage of Abraham he is saying? It means nothing, unless you believed in Jesus. IMO

And what does any of this have to do with your claim that the church of God is Israel ?

You ignored it in the other thread, so here you go again...

If there is neither Jew or Gentile IN CHRIST, then why (according to you Ryan) am I an Israelite ?

See above.

God bless

Well, if this is how you have concluded that there is neither Jew nor Gentile in Christ, so be it.

Thanks and yes, God Bless

 

[Ryan]

[MENTION=29288]Eventide[/MENTION] My answer is in post #152. It is unprofitable to the both of us to continue, so till the next thread.

 

[Eventide]

@Eventide My answer is in post #152. It is unprofitable to the both of us to continue, so till the next thread.

I would agree..yes, it's unprofitable to continue..

 

[Eventide]

Doesn't anyone remember the book of Acts ?

The Apostle to the circumcision teaches the Israelites that they had crucified the Son of God and had a murderer and a thief released to them instead... and even that didn't stop the grace of God from being preached to them FIRST..

For the gospel is to the Jew first, and then after their continued rejection of it, the LORD raised up Paul to take the gospel to the GENTILES..

Israel's house has been left desolate... they're cut off from the root and they're blinded in part until the fulness of the GENTILES be come in...

The nation of ISRAEL, til this day, rejects that the Lord Jesus Christ is their Savior and King...

When that's finished... when the LORD is finished building His church, then shall the Deliverer come from Sion and turn ungodliness from JACOB... for this is My covenant to them when I shall take away their sins..

It's going to happen, in that Day... the Day of the Lord, the Day of Jesus Christ... which shall come as a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child.

 

[gr8grace]

While you're here Ryan, perhaps you can enlighten us to your views on eschatology...

My views are this, while the future is not completely clear, and for all we know Jesus may not be coming back for another generation, what I do know is my family is burning, my friends are burning, my co-workers are burning, my city, province, country as well are going down the tubes and I am supposed to take my time why you are part of the commonwealth of Israel when you don't even care, or don't even want to be associated with anything Israel, earthly or heavenly. That is completely fine with me. All I know is people all around me are burning before my eyes and they continue to eat, drink and giving into marriage not having a care of the afterlife. The earth is literally vomiting us up before our eyes due to wickedness, and as we await his coming, we continue to be silent on sin, immorality and a calling of nations to repent, yet we bicker back and forth whether we are Israel. I am just as guilty of that as the next person, so I am including myself as well. Fine, don't call yourself Israel, I will do so proudly. "Hear O Israel, the LORD OUR GOD, the LORD is one."

It is a personal walk and our relationship is between the Lord and the individual. I can stomp and holler for years and it does not matter what I believe when it comes to your personal relationship with the Lord. You and Him will get it worked out to the Lords ultimate conclusion in the end no matter what.

OTOH, if I could say that my family, friends and co workers are burning all around me. I would check what I believe and what the gospel REALLY means to me and my witness to those folks. Maybe I believe and preach the wrong thing if everybody around me is burning.

2 Pet 3:9~~The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

 

[Ryan]

While you're here Ryan, perhaps you can enlighten us to your views on eschatology...

My views are this, while the future is not completely clear, and for all we know Jesus may not be coming back for another generation, what I do know is my family is burning, my friends are burning, my co-workers are burning, my city, province, country as well are going down the tubes and I am supposed to take my time why you are part of the commonwealth of Israel when you don't even care, or don't even want to be associated with anything Israel, earthly or heavenly. That is completely fine with me. All I know is people all around me are burning before my eyes and they continue to eat, drink and giving into marriage not having a care of the afterlife. The earth is literally vomiting us up before our eyes due to wickedness, and as we await his coming, we continue to be silent on sin, immorality and a calling of nations to repent, yet we bicker back and forth whether we are Israel. I am just as guilty of that as the next person, so I am including myself as well. Fine, don't call yourself Israel, I will do so proudly. "Hear O Israel, the LORD OUR GOD, the LORD is one."

It is a personal walk and our relationship is between the Lord and the individual. I can stomp and holler for years and it does not matter what I believe when it comes to your personal relationship with the Lord. You and Him will get it worked out to the Lords ultimate conclusion in the end no matter what.

OTOH, if I could say that my family, friends and co workers are burning all around me. I would check what I believe and what the gospel REALLY means to me and my witness to those folks. Maybe I believe and preach the wrong thing if everybody around me is burning.

2 Pet 3:9~~The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

I guess I was contrasting the ridiculousness of me and Eventide going back and forth about who is and isn't Israel, while in the meantime our culture is going down the proverbial toilet we are wasting our time on each other versus telling people who aren't saved why they need a Messiah. Most of my family ain't saved, most of my friends aren't, coworkers, clients, etc, etc. I know the outcome, even if they don't, or don't want to admit it. But to take a 4 sentence statement i made about burning and make a blanket thought assuming that is how I witness to the people I love, is in error.

 

[Eventide]

I guess I was contrasting the ridiculousness of me and Eventide going back and forth about who is and isn't Israel.

Perhaps you should try to restrain yourself from starting ridiculous threads like the one you have comparing dispensational teaching with evolution.

Just a thought...