OSAS

[Ernest T. Bass]

there are those who teach a work based salvation and those who say speaking in tongues shows your saved . ignore the fleshly teachings focus on your walk

One cannot work and earn salvation but one can meeting the necessary condition of obedience God has placed upon His free gift of grace.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

i respect charles stanley the other guy i have no clue who he is.. me personally i lean towards eternal security "not a osas or eternal security teacher " ..but the above statements as far as i am concerned is WRONG will we sin yes do we have a advocate yes .is our salvation kept by the power of God . does this give us the license to do as we please ? NO a person doing the above AND CLAIMING SALVATION was never saved .... eternal security is about trusting HIM not ourselves nor is it a reason to sin.. that's like being a law enforcement officer and breaking the law saying because i am the law its ok

The OP of this thread claimed if a Christian did not remain a Christian, did not endure to the end then he was not a 'real" christian.

If this were the case, then why does the Bible warn the Christian about apostasy/backsliding and falling? Heb 6:6 how can they "have fallen" if they were never saved but always fallen?

--What sense could be made of the proverb "the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire"?

--"Ye are severed from Christ,..." Gal 5:4, how can one be severed from what he was "never really" a part of? And how can one "fall from grace" if he was "never really" in grace to begin with?

Currently waiting to see if there is a response to these questions.

 

[jerry63935]

Currently waiting to see if there is a response to these questions.

have you read where the apostle paul wrote work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. that is my advice .

If this were the case, then why does the Bible warn the Christian about apostasy/backsliding and falling? Heb 6:6 how can they "have fallen" if they were never saved but always fallen?

. i am not going over this again.all this subject does is create strife and division . after a period of time it gets old. i am working out my own salvation . i know in whom i have believed. i consider this dead horse theology . none of us are the judge of who is saved or who is not . scriptures can be posted back and forth and nothing will be solved

 

[jerry63935]

"fall from grace"

you can fall from graCE HIS FAVOR STILL BE SAVED... grace has many different functions . when i was younger i drove hard and fast . i had few wrecks that could have took me out of this world.. his grace favor kept me from physical death. see that Grace was not the saving grace . what else would you call it LUCK ?

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

When one gets down to the Nitty-Gritty, 200 verses seem to deny that OSAS is True.....400 verses support it.The 200 verses can be shown either to be taken out of context or are not being addressed to the Body Of Christ.The 400 verses in support are mostly clear and beyond argument.Take your pick.

 

[jerry63935]

200 verses seem to deny that OSAS is True.....400 verses support it.

my whole point is not to promote either .but we can know our salvation inheritance is kept by the power of God . yes we can be secure and NO it is not a license to sin as some have suggested

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

have you read where the apostle paul wrote work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. that is my advice .

. i am not going over this again.all this subject does is create strife and division . after a period of time it gets old. i am working out my own salvation . i know in whom i have believed. i consider this dead horse theology . none of us are the judge of who is saved or who is not . scriptures can be posted back and forth and nothing will be solved

The questions I asked show the shortcomings of OSAS. Also, if OSAS were true, then the words of those 3 men I quoted would be 100% true. But reading those words cause some of the believers in OSAS to take a pause and can cause OSAS apologist to come out of the woodwork to put a spin on those words.

(I have not really understood why OSAS is a banned topic for being contentious when many other subjects are just as contentious.)

 

[jerry63935]

(I have not really understood why OSAS is a banned topic for being contentious when many other subjects are just as contentious.)

you just answered your own question.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

you can fall from graCE HIS FAVOR STILL BE SAVED... grace has many different functions . when i was younger i drove hard and fast . i had few wrecks that could have took me out of this world.. his grace favor kept me from physical death. see that Grace was not the saving grace . what else would you call it LUCK ?

No one can be saved outside of grace for no one will be perfectly sinless. Men sin, hence men have to have grace to be saved. This saving grace is only found "in Christ Jesus" 2 Tim 2:1. Being outside of Christ is being out of saving grace and there is no salvation outside of Christ.

The fact you happen to not have a wreck while speeding when many, many others did have wrecks (and had loss of life in some instances) proves it was a matter of 'time and chance' (Eccl 9:11) not grace.

The BIble does not teach OSAS and you went to great lengths to find away to get around the fact one can fall from grace and be lost. Those Christians at Galatia who had fallen from grace had allowed false Judaizing teachers lead them away from the NT gospel back to the OT law thinking the OT law could justify them. Paul's point to them was the OT law cannot justify for it requires keeping the "whole law" flawlessly. Hence those Galatians had fallen from grace, that is, they left a system of justification by grace thru faithful obedience of the NT and went back to the OT law that required strict, perfect flawless law keeping to be justified

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

you just answered your own question.

How did I answer my own question? Water baptism and its necessity to salvation is a "contentious" topic but it is not banned. I could come up with other topics that would be equally or more contentious as OSAS.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

When one gets down to the Nitty-Gritty, 200 verses seem to deny that OSAS is True.....400 verses support it.The 200 verses can be shown either to be taken out of context or are not being addressed to the Body Of Christ.The 400 verses in support are mostly clear and beyond argument.Take your pick.

Acutually 0 verses support OSAS. In the many years I have spent on various religious forums, it is those that support OSAS that remove a verse from all other Bible contexts and then spin the idea of OSAS in that out of context verse. John 10:28 is probably the one verse this is done to the most. John 10:28 when removed from all other BIble verses/contexts tells us nothing. When I put it back into context and show it does NOT teach OSAS that's when the feathers start to get ruffled.

In the other 399 verses that is claimed to support OSAS, in many of those verses the present tense of verbs gets ignored (and some cases gets attacked) by OSAS proponents.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

my whole point is not to promote either .but we can know our salvation inheritance is kept by the power of God . yes we can be secure and NO it is not a license to sin as some have suggested

Here is an example. The entire verse says " Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." 1 Pet 1:5

They are not kept UNCONDITIONALLY but kept CONDITIONALLY "through faith".

God has never promise to keep/protect/guard the unfaithful, the disobedient therefore they are not kept by the power of God hence those that fall into unbelief will not be among those guarded/protected by God. When it come to salvation, God provides the grace and forgiveness, man must provide the faith to receive grace and forgiveness. It is faith that gives access to grace (Romans 5:2) so those that lose their faith lose access to grace. So Mr Stanley is dead wrong to say the Christian can lose faith and still be saved. If he argues one can be saved without faith then he must believe one can be saved without grace also.

 

[jerry63935]

they are not kept by the power of God

then take it up with God i dont care sorry back on ignore

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

then take it up with God i dont care sorry back on ignore

That's 'not kept by the power of God UNCONDITIONALLY'.

Kept CONDITIONALLY by faith.

 

[GodsGrace]

That's because it is unscriptural.
I used it in a hypothetical sense, mimicking others that say you can. My main point is on the phrase 'your salvation' when it is not 'ours' to begin with.

Who does our salvation belong to Crossnote?
When I became saved...I became saved.
Father, Son and Holy Ghost were already saved.
My neighbor down the street might or might not be saved.
WHO does our salvation belong to?

 

[GodsGrace]

Something else that will never be found in Scripture— “ Repent of your SINS to be Saved......”

BB,,,,
Matthew 4:17 Repent for the Kingdom of heaven is at hand. JESUS

Mark 1:15 The time is fulfilled, and the Kingdom of God is at hand, repent and believe in the gospel.
JESUS.

WHY would Jesus say to believe in the gospel if not for the forgiveness of sin?

1 John 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world. JOHN

 

[GodsGrace]

BY grace THROUGH faith alone.
Or maybe take it up with Paul...

Romans 4:16 ESV
[16] That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring-not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,

Are the adherents of the Law lost?

Is it wrong to be born again AND to obey God?

 

[JLB]

sin. Matthew 18:15-20 gives clear instructions as to how sinning believers are to be handled. Ultimately, if they refuse to stop sinning, we are to put them out of the church.

I totally agree with this.

This is for the destruction of their flesh, not that they would lose their salvation

The removal of a brother who won’t repent, and refuses to stop his evil behavior toward the one he sinned against is biblical.


However, it not necessarily for the destruction of his flesh.


The hope is he will come to himself and repent, then if he does this he is to be restored in gentleness and meekness.


The example you gave from 1 Corinthians 5, is the action taken in an extreme circumstance of gross sexually immorality as the context reveals.


One must know that a sinning brother who refuses to repent after being confronted by the Church is truly in danger of being lost for eternity if he chooses not to turn back to Christ.


Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20


It’s critical to understand that a brother who wanders from the truth is called a sinner, and must repent and return and be restored or be in danger of perishing; death, eternal death.




JLB

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

BB,,,,
Matthew 4:17 Repent for the Kingdom of heaven is at hand. JESUS

Mark 1:15 The time is fulfilled, and the Kingdom of God is at hand, repent and believe in the gospel.
JESUS.

WHY would Jesus say to believe in the gospel if not for the forgiveness of sin?

1 John 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world. JOHN

WHY would Jesus say to believe in the gospel if not for the forgiveness of sin?

Because that is how one gets Saved in the Age Of Grace......To Repent means to undergo a “Mind Change” ( from the Greek “ metanoia” , translated as Repent ) If Anybody goes from NOT Believing the Gospel ( 1cor14:1-4 ) to changing their mind about it and actually starts Trusting in it Alone for their Salvation.....they will be Saved.

Being sorry for sin ( the typical thinking in regard to repentance ) can play a part in your Salvation but it is NOT the Key to it.....If That were the case, Judas would be in Heaven today....Judas was truly sorry and regretted what he did so badly, he returned the money he was given.....Judas was Convicted Of Sin and felt Remorse , so what was his problem? The Saved man , when convicted of Sin must turn to God with Faith in Jesus Christ .Judas did not Turn to God—-He turned to a Hangman’s Noose......
As I said, nowhere in the KJV Bible will you find “ Repent Of Sins to be Saved”......One gets Saved by hearing the Gospel and Believing the Gospel.Plus Nothing.....

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

The OP of this thread claimed if a Christian did not remain a Christian, did not endure to the end then he was not a 'real" christian.

If this were the case, then why does the Bible warn the Christian about apostasy/backsliding and falling? Heb 6:6 how can they "have fallen" if they were never saved but always fallen?

--What sense could be made of the proverb "the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire"?

--"Ye are severed from Christ,..." Gal 5:4, how can one be severed from what he was "never really" a part of? And how can one "fall from grace" if he was "never really" in grace to begin with?

Currently waiting to see if there is a response to these questions.

I will be happy to respond....Perhaps “ to fall” does not equate to being damned....

Perhaps the Sow fell into error and the “ Mire” was adding to the Gospel with Works...... The Mire Of Believing , “ Jesus Saves , B U T......”

If one adds any type of Human Merit to the Gospel Of Grace, Galatians 5 makes it clear that they are “ severed from the Cross” and they have “ Fallen From Grace”...... some say this is a loss of Salvation.....others say it leads to a “Crippled” Walk Of Faith..... I believe the latter

The Bible says that God has Promised to “ Save to the UTTERMOST” all that come to Him through His Son.......Do Your Part, which is Turning to God with Faith in Jesus , and God will do HIS part.....if any of these scenarios are talking about a Loss Of Salvation, the onus is on God to insure that the Believer does not do them....I trust God to keep His Word and I never worry about any of these “ scary” verses..... why should I ? Jesus said that those that Trust in Him “ already HAVE Eternal Life, and shall NEVER come into Condemnation”....
Such Clear Verses should always Trump verses that can be argued for and against.....don’t you think?