OSAS

[GodsGrace]

WHY would Jesus say to believe in the gospel if not for the forgiveness of sin?

Because that is how one gets Saved in the Age Of Grace......To Repent means to undergo a “Mind Change” ( from the Greek “ metanoia” , translated as Repent ) If Anybody goes from NOT Believing the Gospel ( 1cor14:1-4 ) to changing their mind about it and actually starts Trusting in it Alone for their Salvation.....they will be Saved.

Being sorry for sin ( the typical thinking in regard to repentance ) can play a part in your Salvation but it is NOT the Key to it.....If That were the case, Judas would be in Heaven today....Judas was truly sorry and regretted what he did so badly, he returned the money he was given.....Judas was Convicted Of Sin and felt Remorse , so what was his problem? The Saved man , when convicted of Sin must turn to God with Faith in Jesus Christ .Judas did not Turn to God—-He turned to a Hangman’s Noose......
As I said, nowhere in the KJV Bible will you find “ Repent Of Sins to be Saved”......One gets Saved by hearing the Gospel and Believing the Gospel.Plus Nothing.....

We were good until:

PLUS NOTHING.

What does that mean in this day and age anyway?

Usually, if someone is sorry for their sin, they're probably saved. Are unsaved persons sorry for their sins? I don't think so.

I agree about remorse....this is a secular feeling.

I agree about Judas.

But what does PLUS NOTHING mean?

Did JESUS say this?
Where?

 

[GodsGrace]

I totally agree with this.




The removal of a brother who won’t repent, and refuses to stop his evil behavior toward the one he sinned against is biblical.


However, it not necessarily for the destruction of his flesh.


The hope is he will come to himself and repent, then if he does this he is to be restored in gentleness and meekness.


The example you gave from 1 Corinthians 5, is the action taken in an extreme circumstance of gross sexually immorality as the context reveals.


One must know that a sinning brother who refuses to repent after being confronted by the Church is truly in danger of being lost for eternity if he chooses not to turn back to Christ.


Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20


It’s critical to understand that a brother who wanders from the truth is called a sinner, and must repent and return and be restored or be in danger of perishing; death, eternal death.




JLB

In John 20 Jesus tells the Apostles that they can forgive sins and if they retain the sins of any, they will be retained. Verse 23

This is my own understanding of this verse....

In regards to 1 Corinthians 5, that person IS then taken back into the church because Paul felt he had been punished enough.

If a person is dismissed from a church...it would stand to reason that the person is in a bad situation with his fellow Christian family and with God also. Jesus said that if we approach the altar with an offering and remember that a brother is upset with us,,,we should first go to that brother and make peace. Matthew 5:23

Hating a person can be the same as killing a person,,,also Matthew 5.
So if we are not sorry for the discord with our brothers,,,eventually it will be transgression.

As to John 20 and in relation to 1 Corinthians....
I believe Jesus meant that if someone wanted to join a Christian community they must be sorry for their sins and the Apostles could decide if that person should join the community or if they are not really repenting perhaps they would not be accepted. Only true believers were in the churches at this time.

 

[JLB]

When one gets down to the Nitty-Gritty, 200 verses seem to deny that OSAS is True.....400 verses support it.

There is not one single verse in the Bible that supports OSAS, let alone 400.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15



This verse is open and shut, and ends OSAS.



JLB

 

[jerry63935]

This verse is open and shut, and ends OSAS.

really thus saith jlb so its sealed etched in stone the gavel slams case closed there going to be some moths hanging wide open in heaven , when we see some one who made it that we labeled lost forgive me for adding my 2 cents in.. i should have stayed out of it. i wonder how this promotes unity

 

[JLB]

really thus saith jlb so its sealed etched in stone the gavel slams case closed there going to be some moths hanging wide open in heaven , when we see some one who made it that we labeled lost forgive me for adding my 2 cents in.. i should have stayed out of it. i wonder how this promotes unity

It’s not up to us to label anyone as lost, to pass judgement on them.


It is up to us to be led by the Spirit to pray for and reach out to those whom He leads to us to.


Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20

• Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back

• let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

Notice the “love language“ expressed by James in this verse ?

• he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins

Love covers a multitude of sins.


JLB

 

[jerry63935]

It’s not up to us to label anyone as lost, to pass judgement on them.

you did in your post

There is not one single verse in the Bible that supports OSAS, let alone 400.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15



This verse is open and shut, and ends OSAS.

the osas doctrine teaches this verse . lets turn the tables you believe in speaking in tongues .. what if i said this scripture proves tongues are not for today Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. .

it is written If anyone speaks in a tongue, there are to be only two, or at the most three, each in turn, and let someone interpret. 28 But if there is no interpreter, that person is to keep silent in the church and speak to himself and God.

i have been in church services where the preacher spoke in tongues no one interpreted and i been in services where man in the cong doing same yet no interpretation. so can i say that tongues is no need for tongues today..

even though i dont belong to a church that teaches osas nor do i teach it my self. osas /eternal security is not to far off. it depend on how the individual uses it . if the use osas as there doctrine and are living like hell / a total sinful life.. there NOT saved .its not in line with 2 cor 5:17 the new creation there is a security in our salvation

 

[JLB]

you did in your post

Ok. Which post number?

Cut and paste it so I can see where I may have sounded like it was up to us to pass judgment on people , whether they were lost or not?


JLB

 

[JLB]

the osas doctrine teaches this verse . lets turn the tables you believe in speaking in tongues .. what if i said this scripture proves tongues are not for today Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. .

I believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit with evidence that is seen and heard, as the pattern shown us from the day of Pentecost.


If you don’t believe in the baptism with the Holy Spirit then that’s between you and the Lord.


If you want to present some scriptures that teach the baptism with the Holy Spirit is not for today I will be glad to discuss.


JLB

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

There is not one single verse in the Bible that supports OSAS, let alone 400.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15



This verse is open and shut, and ends OSAS.



JLB

We were good until:

PLUS NOTHING.

What does that mean in this day and age anyway?

Usually, if someone is sorry for their sin, they're probably saved. Are unsaved persons sorry for their sins? I don't think so.

I agree about remorse....this is a secular feeling.

I agree about Judas.

But what does PLUS NOTHING mean?

Did JESUS say this?
Where?
[/QUOTE]

Judas proves that one can be , “Sorry for Sins” and still be Lost......He is the Poster Boy to show that sorrow ...guilt .....remorse......and anything else you care to throw in there is NOT the type of “Repentance” that God demands for Salvation......Any type of “ repentance” that does lead to Faith in Jesus Christ is going to fall way short of Salvation—- here is what a Repentance That will lead to Salvation looks like....
Remember the Sinful Tax- Collector Who was praying in the Temple and would not even look up to Heaven as he prayed? Jesus said he went home a Saved man ( Justified) What did that guy do to get Saved? He “ Turned to God” with a Contrite Heart and pleaded, “Lord, have Mercy on me , a Sinner”. It worked for that Sinner.It also worked for “ this” Sinner....
Faith is what saves . Faith is Believing a Promise Of God. God’s Promise is this—-“ Turn to Me, and I will turn to you”......very simple......very effective....
“ Plus Nothing” comes from two Warnings.The First one comes from Jesus, using Paul as His Mouthpiece . In Galations, it is written that simply believing that Jesus died for your sins and then later rose from the dead is what a person does to be Saved.Any Addition to that Gospel Of Pure Grace is a “ False Gospel”. Those that believe in a False Gospel Of Works , no matter how Good it sounds ( church attendance, Tithing, obedience to the Law, Repenting Of all known sins before you die, doing your best, etc) will “ Fall From Grace”—- some say that equals a loss of Salvation, others say it shows you were never saved to begin with and others maintain that it just means your Christian Walk will be a Crippled one.Take your pick, I suppose.Regardless, one does not Add to the Gospel.Its the Gospel plus Nothing. One could also say Faith Plus Nothing or one could say Grace Plus Nothing , or Jesus Plus Nothing or just go with the song , “Nothing But The Blood” ......Any Of these Doctrines can be deduced from 1Cor15:1-4, which is the Gospel
The Second Warning comes from Heb3 and 4.......God Commands us to REST in the Gospel or be guilty of “ Disobedience and UNbelief”.....that means to be Assured Of your Salvation and KNOW that you are Forever Saved by the Finished Work Of The Cross ALONE.God does NOT say Trust in the Gospel PLUS anything. The Gospel Plus Nothing......
Paul says that HIS Gospel ( That’s Right— Paul’s Gospel — google it ) is what God will be asking you about come Judgement Day . Make sure God knows that you did not show “ UNbelief” by thinking that even though the Gospel was “Essential” for your Salvation , it just was not “ Adequate”. Don’t insult , or tread on the Blood Of Christ......It is VERY Adequate.God Bless ....

 

[jerry63935]

I believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit with evidence that is seen and heard, as the pattern shown us from the day of Pentecost.


If you don’t believe in the baptism with the Holy Spirit then that’s between you and the Lord.


If you want to present some scriptures that teach the baptism with the Holy Spirit is not for today I will be glad to discuss.


JLB

aww i found a subject that is close to you notice the if you dont .. maybe it will help you see .but here is the point 1, i never said one way or the other. 2. you become defensive , my point has been made on your claim

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

It’s not up to us to label anyone as lost, to pass judgement on them


Only God knows who is “ Lost” ........
Paul tells us we ARE to judge fellow Believers .......Judging those Of the World is God’s Job...

 

[JLB]

It’s not up to us to label anyone as lost, to pass judgement on them


Only God knows who is “ Lost” ........
Paul tells us we ARE to judge fellow Believers .......Judging those Of the World is God’s Job...

Yes judging is up to God.


However, as you see from the scripture I presented, it is up to the church to go after the lost.


Here’s my post again —


It’s not up to us to label anyone as lost, to pass judgement on them.


It is up to us to be led by the Spirit to pray for and reach out to those whom He leads to us to.


Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20

• Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back

• let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

Notice the “love language“ expressed by James in this verse ?

• he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins

Love covers a multitude of sins.


JLB

 

[JLB]

aww i found a subject that is close to you notice the if you dont .. maybe it will help you see .but here is the point 1, i never said one way or the other. 2. you become defensive , my point has been made on your claim

Second request —


Ok. Which post number?

Cut and paste it so I can see where I may have sounded like it was up to us to pass judgment on people , whether they were lost or not?


JLB

 

[JLB]

We were good until:

PLUS NOTHING.

What does that mean in this day and age anyway?

Usually, if someone is sorry for their sin, they're probably saved. Are unsaved persons sorry for their sins? I don't think so.

I agree about remorse....this is a secular feeling.

I agree about Judas.

But what does PLUS NOTHING mean?

Did JESUS say this?
Where?

Judas proves that one can be , “Sorry for Sins” and still be Lost......He is the Poster Boy to show that sorrow ...guilt .....remorse......and anything else you care to throw in there is NOT the type of “Repentance” that God demands for Salvation......Any type of “ repentance” that does lead to Faith in Jesus Christ is going to fall way short of Salvation—- here is what a Repentance That will lead to Salvation looks like....
Remember the Sinful Tax- Collector Who was praying in the Temple and would not even look up to Heaven as he prayed? Jesus said he went home a Saved man ( Justified) What did that guy do to get Saved? He “ Turned to God” with a Contrite Heart and pleaded, “Lord, have Mercy on me , a Sinner”. It worked for that Sinner.It also worked for “ this” Sinner....
Faith is what saves . Faith is Believing a Promise Of God. God’s Promise is this—-“ Turn to Me, and I will turn to you”......very simple......very effective....
“ Plus Nothing” comes from two Warnings.The First one comes from Jesus, using Paul as His Mouthpiece . In Galations, it is written that simply believing that Jesus died for your sins and then later rose from the dead is what a person does to be Saved.Any Addition to that Gospel Of Pure Grace is a “ False Gospel”. Those that believe in a False Gospel Of Works , no matter how Good it sounds ( church attendance, Tithing, obedience to the Law, Repenting Of all known sins before you die, doing your best, etc) will “ Fall From Grace”—- some say that equals a loss of Salvation, others say it shows you were never saved to begin with and others maintain that it just means your Christian Walk will be a Crippled one.Take your pick, I suppose.Regardless, one does not Add to the Gospel.Its the Gospel plus Nothing. One could also say Faith Plus Nothing or one could say Grace Plus Nothing , or Jesus Plus Nothing or just go with the song , “Nothing But The Blood” ......Any Of these Doctrines can be deduced from 1Cor15:1-4, which is the Gospel
The Second Warning comes from Heb3 and 4.......God Commands us to REST in the Gospel or be guilty of “ Disobedience and UNbelief”.....that means to be Assured Of your Salvation and KNOW that you are Forever Saved by the Finished Work Of The Cross ALONE.God does NOT say Trust in the Gospel PLUS anything. The Gospel Plus Nothing......
Paul says that HIS Gospel ( That’s Right— Paul’s Gospel — google it ) is what God will be asking you about come Judgement Day . Make sure God knows that you did not show “ UNbelief” by thinking that even though the Gospel was “Essential” for your Salvation , it just was not “ Adequate”. Don’t insult , or tread on the Blood Of Christ......It is VERY Adequate.God Bless ....

[/QUOTE]

I don’t understand this post, it almost looks like you were addressing wondering.


What is your point and how does it relate to OSAS.


Can you address and discussing the scripture I gave?


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15



JLB

 

[JLB]

really thus saith jlb

Last time I checked, 1 John 3:15 is scripture, and was written by the Apostle John, who was discipled personally by Jesus Christ, and inspired by the Holy Spirit to write 1 John 3:15.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15


Whoever hates his brother —

John is teaching us about two brothers in Christ, in which one begins to hate the other. If both are Christians then the hatred had to occur sometime after they both were born again and became brothers in Christ.


If we begin to hate our brother, then we are in danger of no longer having eternal life. We must ask the Lord to help us to forgive whatever offense that occurred in which the anger and hatred took place.


Each and every one of us will most likely deal with this issue before we die, especially in the days we are living.


Anger, bitterness, and unforgivness will lead to hatred if not dealt with.

If someone hates his brother it’s because of some offense that occurred and went unforgiven.


“You have heard that it was said to those of old, You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire.
Matthew 5:21-22



JLB

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

I totally agree with this.




The removal of a brother who won’t repent, and refuses to stop his evil behavior toward the one he sinned against is biblical.


However, it not necessarily for the destruction of his flesh.


The hope is he will come to himself and repent, then if he does this he is to be restored in gentleness and meekness.


The example you gave from 1 Corinthians 5, is the action taken in an extreme circumstance of gross sexually immorality as the context reveals.


One must know that a sinning brother who refuses to repent after being confronted by the Church is truly in danger of being lost for eternity if he chooses not to turn back to Christ.


Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20


It’s critical to understand that a brother who wanders from the truth is called a sinner, and must repent and return and be restored or be in danger of perishing; death, eternal death.




JLB

For clarification, what you quoted was not from me but taken from a website that was trying to argue that it is not possible for a Christian to be lost. The article tried to use 1 Cor 3:15 to show the Christian's sinful works will be burned but the Christian himself would be saved. But this is NOT what the context in 1 Cor 3 is saying.

The point of that post of mine was to show the misuse of verses by OSAS proponents. For example, what if a practicing Christian for many years runs off with his neighbors wife to live in adultery and dies living in that adulterous state. Some OSAS proponents turn to 1 Cor 3:15 and argue his sinful works will be burned but he will be saved anyway. Other OSAS proponents turn to 1 Jn 2:19 and argue his running off to live in adultery proves he was never really saved.

OSAS have created an obvious contradiction between two of their so called "proof texts" for he cannot be at the same time both "saved anyway" and "never really saved" .

And my question to OSAS proponents is which is it? Saved anyway? Never really saved?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

I will be happy to respond....Perhaps “ to fall” does not equate to being damned....

Perhaps the Sow fell into error and the “ Mire” was adding to the Gospel with Works...... The Mire Of Believing , “ Jesus Saves , B U T......”

If one adds any type of Human Merit to the Gospel Of Grace, Galatians 5 makes it clear that they are “ severed from the Cross” and they have “ Fallen From Grace”...... some say this is a loss of Salvation.....others say it leads to a “Crippled” Walk Of Faith..... I believe the latter

The Bible says that God has Promised to “ Save to the UTTERMOST” all that come to Him through His Son.......Do Your Part, which is Turning to God with Faith in Jesus , and God will do HIS part.....if any of these scenarios are talking about a Loss Of Salvation, the onus is on God to insure that the Believer does not do them....I trust God to keep His Word and I never worry about any of these “ scary” verses..... why should I ? Jesus said that those that Trust in Him “ already HAVE Eternal Life, and shall NEVER come into Condemnation”....
Such Clear Verses should always Trump verses that can be argued for and against.....don’t you think?

The word 'apostate' along with the word 'fall' implies one's standing has changed. A person in a saved state and remains in that saved state is not an apostate, is not fallen. But going from a saved state to a lost state is a change in one's standing falling from saved to lost.

Some facts given us about those Galatians:
-they were removed from the gospel Gal 1:6;
-quit obeying the truth Gal 3:1; Gal 5:7
-Paul was afraid his labor with them was in vain, that he had become their enemy Gal 4:11,16
-severed from Christ, fallen from grace Gal 5:4

From these facts given to us it would be impossible for them to be saved. There is no salvation outside the gospel which they had left. Salvation can only be had by obeying the truth, not by obeying lies/false teachings. They had become an enemy to the truth taught them by Paul. They had left (severed from) Christ. Salvation is only found "in Christ". Again, fall implies one's position had changed. Fallen from grace implies they were in grace but now outside of grace. In order to saved without grace implies one must be perfectly sinless. Those Galatians were not perfectly sinless therefore required grace for them to be saved.

Heb 7:25 "Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them."

--"uttermost' does not mean God will go against what He has said-promised for God cannot lie. God will not go against His word and save those apart from Christ, apart from the gospel, apart from the truth who are outside of grace.

--uttermost means completely, that being, Christ saves one completely from sin, from the consequence of sin. Christ will not leave salvation undone or in part.

--this utmost, complete, total salvation is available to those that conditionally come unto God by Christ. The verb 'come' being in the present tense denotes a sustained, ongoing action. Those that quit coming to God, as those Galatians, will no longer have Christ making intercession for them. As you say yourself, as long as man does his part in coming to God. Christ does His part in making their salvation complete. Yet men can quit coming to God and their is no onus upon God to see to it man quit coming to Him.

You cite John 5:24 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."

The "not come into condemnation" is NOT UNconditional. In order to not come into condemnation requires one CONDITIONALLY hear Christ's word and believe on Christ. Both verbs "heareth" and "beleiveth" being present tense denotes an ongoing, sustained action. Therefore those that quit hearing and coming to Christ will be in condemnation.

The Christian has promise of eternal life (1 Jn 2:25) and not eternal life itself. Those that quit hearing and believing lose the promise of eternal life.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

There is not one single verse in the Bible that supports OSAS, let alone 400.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15



This verse is open and shut, and ends OSAS.



JLB

There is not one single verse in the Bible that supports OSAS, let alone 400.

I would beg to differ.....How do explain this One? Just one. “ All Of Those That Believe in ME ALREADY HAVE Eternal Life, and Shall NEVER be Condemned.....” Get out of “ that” one, and then we will just have 399 to go....

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

There is not one single verse in the Bible that supports OSAS, let alone 400.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15



This verse is open and shut, and ends OSAS.



JLB

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15

If I hate my Brother..... and If hating my Brother makes me a Murderer.....and if no Murderer has Eternal Life abiding him, The Monkey is on God’s Back to see that I never “ hate my Brother”. I got a Promise from Jesus that if I put my Faith in Him Alone for my Salvation, He will Present me as “ Blameless” before His Father.....So why would Any Believer worry about any of this stuff ? I Trust the Promises Of God. Jesus said all one had to do is acknowledge Him before others and He would acknowledge them before His Father.......Those people will never be “ Brother Haters “ either if that designation means their Damnation......Jesus made the Rules.....Jesus made the Promises.....Let Him figure things out.....while I Rest in the Security Of His Promises.Here’s another Good One.....” Anybody that asks to be Saved, WILL BE SAVED”........ God bless...

 

[JLB]

There is not one single verse in the Bible that supports OSAS, let alone 400.

I would beg to differ.....How do explain this One? Just one. “ All Of Those That Believe in ME ALREADY HAVE Eternal Life, and Shall NEVER be Condemned.....” Get out of “ that” one, and then we will just have 399 to go....

Could please post the chapter and verse with context?


We all need to embrace and believe God’s word, not try and
“get out of it”.


Eternal life has a condition. The condition is to believe.

Understanding what believe means is vital.

If our believing doesn’t result is doing what we believe, then we are no better off than the demons who believe.


Here are some verses that pertain to this subject of believe and eternal life.


He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36



Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13


So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life. Matthew 19:28-29



JLB