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OSAS

that would be judging salvation .i cant prove when they would no longer be saved .it appears as you dont like the fact i wont give you a answer .first thing if they depart was they ever saved. ?

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1

  • some will depart from the faith

A person who is in the faith is a reference to being in our common faith in Christ Jesus.


A person who is not saved, or not born again is certainly not in the faith.


Only a person who is in “the faith“ can depart from it.


Why would the Holy Spirit warn of unbelievers, people who are not in the faith, departing from something they were never in ?


Christians, followers of Christ, “His sheep“, can and do become lost.

  • Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’




JLB
 
Christians, followers of Christ, “His sheep“, can and do become lost.
then by all mean hold on to that. i stand alone on my belief i could counter your lost sheep but wondering did all that in a different post. i have made my stand
 
Seems to me, a person that holds to OSNAS in effect is proclaiming that Jesus is not sufficient to save. IOW it takes my obedience to help Him out.

Do you understand what the term “obedience of faith” refers to?


But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26


Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 1 Peter 1:22-23


A person must obey the Gospel to be saved; born again, regenerated.

This is accomplished by grace, which is the power of the Spirit, through faith, which is a gift from God.

However, faith must be activated by our obedience, otherwise it’s incomplete and dormant and can not function to save.


Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
James 2:21-22



JLB
 
then by all mean hold on to that. i stand alone on my belief i could counter your lost sheep but wondering did all that in a different post. i have made my stand

Nobody has “countered” the scriptures.

Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’


JLB
 
Do you understand what the term “obedience of faith” refers to?


But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26


Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 1 Peter 1:22-23
I don't see what this has to do with my quote you quoted...
Seems to me, a person that holds to OSNAS in effect is proclaiming that Jesus is not sufficient to save. IOW it takes my obedience to help Him out.

A person must obey the Gospel to be saved; born again, regenerated.
Here is the Gospel...
"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:" (1Co 15:1-4)

..Faith obeys that by believing it.
This is accomplished by grace, which is the power of the Spirit, through faith, which is a gift from God.

Grace comes through Jesus Christ and His work at Calvary. (Jn 1.17)
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the (preached Gospel) Word. (Rom 10:17).
Yes, the Holy Spirit convicts us of our sin preparing our hearts to receive/hear the Gospel. (Jn 16:8). Yet some who spurn the convicting power of the Holy Spirit concerning their sins also will spurn the Gospel. (If they will not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they believe if someone rose from the dead. Lu 16:31)

However, faith must be activated by our obedience, otherwise it’s incomplete and dormant and can not function to save.
Rather our obedience is activated by faith.

Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
James 2:21-22
That is speaking of growth of faith in Abraham's life to the point where Abraham's faith was willing to sacrifice his son, but it was not always like that as his faith faltered in nearly giving his wife over to Pharoah through a half lie Gen 12:13. He grew in faith as we are to.

Romans 4:5 (KJV) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

How is 'faith activated by our obedience' in the verse above???
 
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Seems to me, a person that holds to OSNAS in effect is proclaiming that Jesus is not sufficient to save. IOW it takes my obedience to help Him out.
I see this argument but honestly it is not a fair criticism. We know of those who have faith yet it dims and fades away. Not to be fair to the seed, it is eternal life yet equally did not take root.

Like a plant things can develop and grow and then die and fade away.

The gospel is to bring us to the likeness of Christ. If this fails, who fails, man or God? If man is part of the process, then OSAS in the broadest sense is heresy, for it says love is only God with a puppet.

In history the elect are eternal from the beginning, except they are hidden till the end to declare justice. Justice is to give all the chance to respond, yet it is only the elect who do finally come through.

God bless you
 
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Here is the Gospel...
"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:" (1Co 15:1-4)

Why did you stop at verse 4?

Paul was teaching them from the scriptures as well as testifying that he saw the risen Christ, that he was resurrected from the dead, along with the other apostles.

The context of this chapter deals with the resurrection.

His point he is making is they must continue to believe, hold fast to the Gospel message or their initial believing was done in vain.



Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time. 1 Corinthians 15:1-8


We know for sure that Jesus sent Paul to preach the same Gospel Jesus preached, because Paul recounts his encounter with Jesus on the road to Damascus, and testifies what Jesus told him, as it is recorded for us.

Words of Christ in red —


But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:16-20


The Gospel must contain the word repent, which means turn to God s submission to Him as Lord.


IOW, if we are called to turn to God, then by default we are called to turn away from Satan as our lord.

The way we do this is by confessing Jesus Christ as Lord.

We believe Jesus Is Lord BECAUSE He was raised from the dead....


Therefore we believe in our heart that God raised Him from the dead, and we confess with our mouth Jesus is Lord.


Confessing Jesus is Lord is the action of faith that brings about our salvation.


For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:10


Confessing Jesus is Lord is how we repent.


Repenting is how we are delivered from the dominion of darkness into the kingdom of God.


The Gospel must contain the word repent.


Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38


Jesus said this Gospel of the kingdom, the gospel that was preached in His day, will be preached in all the world in the last days, then the end will come.


Repent is the command of the Gospel that must be obeyed.


How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:14-17



For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? 1 Peter 4:17



in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Thessalonians 1:8


There’s more I want to share about this but getting to long.



JLB
 
i dont need to answer the question. go back read the scriptures i gave wondering .tell me which ones you disagree with. the Bible says the way of a transgressor is hard. i dont plan on finding out . would you walk up to a person who has been out of church months .say to them you have departed from the faith. your going to hell?

Why do you keep trying to make this about “judging salvation“

The discussion is not about judging salvation, but OSAS.

I have proven from the scriptures that OSAS is a false teaching.

I have not once mentioned anything about judging whether a person is saved or not, that is up to the Holy Spirit.

Im just showing what the scriptures say.


Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1


Those who depart from the faith are no longer saved.


JLB
 
I like to say if you lose your salvation, you deserved it, next time try His salvation.

The term “lose your salvation” is not in the Bible.


There are terms to describe this such as:

Lost
Dead
Will not inherit the kingdom of God
Have their part in the lake of fire
Perish
Death
Corruption
Cast into outer darkness
Cast into hell
Tormented with fire and brimstone

To name a few.


the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
Luke 12:46



JLB
 
Why did you stop at verse 4?

Paul was teaching them from the scriptures as well as testifying that he saw the risen Christ, that he was resurrected from the dead, along with the other apostles.

The context of this chapter deals with the resurrection.

His point he is making is they must continue to believe, hold fast to the Gospel message or their initial believing was done in vain.



Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time. 1 Corinthians 15:1-8


We know for sure that Jesus sent Paul to preach the same Gospel Jesus preached, because Paul recounts his encounter with Jesus on the road to Damascus, and testifies what Jesus told him, as it is recorded for us.

Words of Christ in red —


But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:16-20


The Gospel must contain the word repent, which means turn to God s submission to Him as Lord.


IOW, if we are called to turn to God, then by default we are called to turn away from Satan as our lord.

The way we do this is by confessing Jesus Christ as Lord.

We believe Jesus Is Lord BECAUSE He was raised from the dead....


Therefore we believe in our heart that God raised Him from the dead, and we confess with our mouth Jesus is Lord.


Confessing Jesus is Lord is the action of faith that brings about our salvation.


For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:10


Confessing Jesus is Lord is how we repent.


Repenting is how we are delivered from the dominion of darkness into the kingdom of God.


The Gospel must contain the word repent.


Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38


Jesus said this Gospel of the kingdom, the gospel that was preached in His day, will be preached in all the world in the last days, then the end will come.


Repent is the command of the Gospel that must be obeyed.


How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:14-17



For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? 1 Peter 4:17



in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Thessalonians 1:8


There’s more I want to share about this but getting to long.



JLB
Could you please sum up your point in a paragraph?
 
The term “lose your salvation” is not in the Bible.


There are terms to describe this such as:

Lost
Dead
Will not inherit the kingdom of God
Have their part in the lake of fire
Perish
Death
Corruption
Cast into outer darkness
Cast into hell
Tormented with fire and brimstone

To name a few.


the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
Luke 12:46



JLB
I know it's not in the bible, that was my point. It's not in the bible because it is not 'ours' to begin with. Salvation, is of God from beginning to end.
By Grace alone
through Faith alone,
on account of Christ alone,
to the glory of God alone.

Romans 3:27 ESV
[27] Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith.
 
Could you please sum up your point in a paragraph?

The Gospel includes the word repent.

This is the Gospel Jesus sent Paul to reach.

We must obey the Gospel to be saved.



JLB
 
I know it's not in the bible, that was my point. It's not in the bible because it is not 'ours' to begin with. Salvation, is of God from beginning to end.
By Grace alone
through Faith alone,
on account of Christ alone,
to the glory of God alone.

Romans 3:27 ESV
[27] Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith.


No use bringing up a point with a term not used in the Bible.




JLB
 
No use bringing up a point with a term not used in the Bible.




JLB
It is used in Scripture...

Jonah 2:9 ESV
[9] But I with the voice of thanksgiving will sacrifice to you; what I have vowed I will pay. Salvation belongs to the LORD!"
 
So which is it?

Grace alone or faith alone?


If faith is alone then it doesn’t need grace, or visa versa.



JLB
BY grace THROUGH faith alone.
Or maybe take it up with Paul...

Romans 4:16 ESV
[16] That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring-not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,
 
Yes and we repent daily as the Holy Spirit convicts us of sin, (as we fall short daily).

There are different people at different levels of maturity.

We know that if we confess...
 
It is used in Scripture...

Jonah 2:9 ESV
[9] But I with the voice of thanksgiving will sacrifice to you; what I have vowed I will pay. Salvation belongs to the LORD!"

Losing your salvation is a term not used in the Bible.
 
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