Pre-trib Rapture is not scriptural

[Free]

Matt 12 has nothing to do with satan being bound

Oh boy...Look at context. Who do you think the strong man is and who is it that binds him? What do you think the whole point is in Jesus saying that right then, right mentioning the kingdom of God having come upon them?

 

[n2thelight]

Oh boy...Look at context. Who do you think the strong man is and who is it that binds him? What do you think the whole point is in Jesus saying that right then, right mentioning the kingdom of God having come upon them?

If satan were bound,there would not be NO evil in this world right now,and since right now one of us is deceived satan cannot be bound.

And I say again Matt 12 has nothing whatsoever to do with satan being bound for the 1000 years,which is the mil that starts on the Day of the Lord....

If satan were bound,Christ would be here on earth right now,period!!!!!!!!

 

[n2thelight]

Free

Is there peace on the earth right now?

 

[Free]

If satan were bound,there would not be NO evil in this world right now,and since right now one of us is deceived satan cannot be bound.

And I say again Matt 12 has nothing whatsoever to do with satan being bound for the 1000 years,which is the mil that starts on the Day of the Lord....

If satan were bound,Christ would be here on earth right now,period!!!!!!!!

You, too, need to read Rev. 20:3 very closely. You are making the Bible say more than it does.

 

[Free]

Free

Is there peace on the earth right now?

No but that has nothing to with it.

 

[n2thelight]

No but that has nothing to with it.

Has everything to do with it,as the mil will be a time of peace.....

 

[n2thelight]

You, too, need to read Rev. 20:3 very closely. You are making the Bible say more than it does.

You telling be I need to read Rev 20:3 very close ,I read it for what it says,yet you accuse me of making scripture say more than it does....Wow!!!!

"Revelation 20:3 "And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season."

Sooooooooo what Im missing?

 

[Jim Parker]

When rich men stand at their judgment, The Lord will get out The Book, and their name will not be in it, and He will not know their name except that he was a rich man. Away from me, I do not know you.

God knows the beggars, poor, and downtrodden, They are the meek and the mild, and He knows their names written in the Book of life. They are a nuisance, a bother and an eyesore to the rich. They were Lazarus and the rich man. God knew Lazarus, He did not know the rich man.

OK
You said he did. In your post 951 you said "Luke 16:19-31 is not a parable. No matter how many times you say it is. Christ knew their names. "
Now you're saying He did not know the rich man.
If Jesus is God (and He is) He knows everybody's name.
The only way He would not know the rich man's name is if the rich man were fictional and the story a parable.

 

[Jim Parker]

Has everything to do with it,as the mil will be a time of peace.....

Where does the sola scriptura say that?

 

[Jim Parker]

If satan were bound,Christ would be here on earth right now,period!!!!!!!!

And where does the Bible say that? (The Bible, not you.)

 

[n2thelight]

And where does the Bible say that? (The Bible, not you.)

You serious?

 

[Jim Parker]

You serious?

Yes, I'm serious.
Where doe the Bible say, "If satan were bound,Christ would be here on earth right now,period!!!!!!!!" (or words to that effect)

 

[n2thelight]

Yes, I'm serious.
Where doe the Bible say, "If satan were bound,Christ would be here on earth right now,period!!!!!!!!" (or words to that effect)

"Revelation 20:2 "And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,"

"Revelation 20:3 "And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season."

Revelation 20:4 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the Word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

Do tell where is Christ during the Mil?

 

[Jim Parker]

"Revelation 20:2 "And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,"
"Revelation 20:3 "And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season."
Revelation 20:4 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the Word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

Do tell where is Christ during the Mil?

So you are inserting YOUR belief in the "millennial reign of Christ on earth" into the scripture and then ASSUMING that the reign mentioned in v.4 has to be on earth.
That is an OPINION of what the highly symbolic apocalyptic language of Revelations means.
It is not "exactly what the scripture says."

Christ began his reign as ruler of heaven and earth about the year 33 AD. (Mat 29:18) He then ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

So you have lifted the words: "thousand years," out of that highly symbolic, apocalyptic passage and assigned a totally literal meaning to it. That's like saying the statement, "That guy drives as slow as a snail." means that snails actually drive cars.

Since Christ, according to His own very clear and non-symbolic, non-apocalyptic words, said that He began His reign in heaven and on earth almost 2000 years ago, it follows that the use of "a thousand years" in that highly symbolic apocalyptic passage should be understood to mean: "an indefinite long time." And from that we may reasonably conclude that this IS the millennial reign of Christ and Christ is reigning right now, as He told us He is, from the throne of God.

Also, there is no compelling reason to conclude that events of verses 2 and 3 occur temporally immediately before the events of v. 4. Again, this is apocalyptic literature. It is John's best effort at describing a series of visions he experienced in an ecstatic state. The application of sequence or time to them is in appropriate. When John says, "then I saw" it means that vision was the next thing he saw. It does not mean that it is the next event on the program.

The revelation is John's attempt to describe the indescribable. Treating it like the transcript of the video tape is absurdly inappropriate.

But "it preaches good" and puts butts in the pews and checks in the collection basket.

 

[n2thelight]

So you are inserting YOUR belief in the "millennial reign of Christ on earth" into the scripture and then ASSUMING that the reign mentioned in v.4 has to be on earth.
That is an OPINION of what the highly symbolic apocalyptic language of Revelations means.
It is not "exactly what the scripture says."

Christ began his reign as ruler of heaven and earth about the year 33 AD. (Mat 29:18) He then ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

So you have lifted the words: "thousand years," out of that highly symbolic, apocalyptic passage and assigned a totally literal meaning to it. That's like saying the statement, "That guy drives as slow as a snail." means that snails actually drive cars.

Since Christ, according to His own very clear and non-symbolic, non-apocalyptic words, said that He began His reign in heaven and on earth almost 2000 years ago, it follows that the use of "a thousand years" in that highly symbolic apocalyptic passage should be understood to mean: "an indefinite long time." And from that we may reasonably conclude that this IS the millennial reign of Christ and Christ is reigning right now, as He told us He is, from the throne of God.

Also, there is no compelling reason to conclude that events of verses 2 and 3 occur temporally immediately before the events of v. 4. Again, this is apocalyptic literature. It is John's best effort at describing a series of visions he experienced in an ecstatic state. The application of sequence or time to them is in appropriate. When John says, "then I saw" it means that vision was the next thing he saw. It does not mean that it is the next event on the program.

The revelation is John's attempt to describe the indescribable. Treating it like the transcript of the video tape is absurdly inappropriate.

But "it preaches good" and puts butts in the pews and checks in the collection basket.

Guess that's your problem,you don't believe Christ rules from earth,yet scripture proves you wrong

Thus says the Lord: ‘I will return to Zion, and dwell in the midst of Jerusalem. Jerusalem shall be called the City of Truth, the Mountain of the Lord of hosts, the Holy Mountain.’ (Zechariah 8:3)

“Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion! For behold, I am coming and I will dwell in your midst,” says the Lord.

“Many nations shall be joined to the Lord in that day, and they shall become My people. And I will dwell in your midst. Then you will know that the Lord of hosts has sent Me to you. And the Lord will take possession of Judah as His inheritance in the Holy Land, and will again choose Jerusalem.” (Zechariah 2:10-12)

“… and I will set My sanctuary in their midst forevermore. My tabernacle also shall be with them; indeed I will be their God, and they shall be My people. The nations also will know that I, the Lord, sanctify Israel, where My sanctuary is in their midst forevermore.” (Ezekiel 37:26-27)

“The Spirit lifted me up and brought me into the inner court; and behold, the glory of the Lord filled the temple. Then I heard Him speaking to me from the temple, while a man stood beside me. And He said to me, “Son of man, this is the place of My throne and the place of the soles of My feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel forever. No more shall the house of Israel defile My holy name, they nor their kings, by their harlotry or with the carcasses of their kings on their high places.” (Ezekiel 43:5-7)

“To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.” (Revelation 3:21)

 

[JLB]

You are not reading close enough. What is specifically said in verse 3 regarding Satan being bound?

11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:

KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

The Beast and His Armies Defeated
17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God,18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people,free and slave, both small and great.”

19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.
Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while. Revelation 19:11-20:3

That when he was bound [after Jesus returns and destroys all the wicked] a seal was set upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more till the 1000 years were finished.

Do you believe the resurrection is past?

Has your body been resurrected from the dead whereby you will never die, with a body that shines like the sun?

34 Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:34-36

Do people on the earth still die, and marry?

41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear! Matthew 13:41-43

This is what happens after the resurrection, whereby those who are Christ's will have bodies that are transformed and shine like the sun, and will never die.


JLB

 

[JLB]

So you have lifted the words: "thousand years," out of that highly symbolic, apocalyptic passage and assigned a totally literal meaning to it. That's like saying the statement, "That guy drives as slow as a snail." means that snails actually drive cars.

• Jesus Christ will literally come from Heaven to Earth, with His saints and literally destroy the wicked.
• There will be a literal resurrection of the dead in Christ.
• Those who were literally beheaded for their witness to Christ and the word of God, will sit on literal thrones and reign with the literal Christ for 1000 literal years, which is known as the Day of Rest.

1000 literal years, in which we all will rest with Him on the Seventh [prophetic] Day.


11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:

KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.

The Beast and His Armies Defeated
17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God,18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people,free and slave, both small and great.”

19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.
Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
Revelation 19:11-20:6



JLB

 

[JLB]

Oh boy...Look at context. Who do you think the strong man is and who is it that binds him? What do you think the whole point is in Jesus saying that right then, right mentioning the kingdom of God having come upon them?

That He was operating by the Holy Spirit, and not by the power of Satan, as the Pharisee's claimed.


JLB

 

[Free]

You telling be I need to read Rev 20:3 very close ,I read it for what it says,yet you accuse me of making scripture say more than it does....Wow!!!!

"Revelation 20:3 "And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season."

Sooooooooo what Im missing?

"That he should deceive the nations no more." The effect of this binding is very specific. It doesn't say that there will be no more evil or that there will be peace. It says that the binding is to prevent Satan from deceiving the nations. And this deception could refer to something specific, such as the spread of the gospel. This would support what Jesus says in Matt. 12.

 

[Free]

• Jesus Christ will literally come from Heaven to Earth, with His saints and literally destroy the wicked.
• There will be a literal resurrection of the dead in Christ.
• Those who were literally beheaded for their witness to Christ and the word of God, will sit on literal thrones and reign with the literal Christ for 1000 literal years, which is known as the Day of Rest.

1000 literal years, in which we all will rest with Him on the Seventh [prophetic] Day.


11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:

KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.

The Beast and His Armies Defeated
17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God,18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people,free and slave, both small and great.”

19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.
Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
Revelation 19:11-20:6



JLB

We have previously given sound reasoning as to why the thousand years are most likely not literal. As to Jesus's return and the resurrection, read 1 Cor. 15 and see that it signals the end and is immediately prior to the judgment.